Wilbur ★ Posted April 30, 2020 Share #1 Posted April 30, 2020 I have read the official versions and just watched the Netflix version. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphie ★ Posted April 30, 2020 Share #2 Posted April 30, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randomguy Posted May 1, 2020 Share #3 Posted May 1, 2020 Were they the ones with the Kool-Ade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted May 1, 2020 Author Share #4 Posted May 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Randomguy said: Were they the ones with the Kool-Ade? The Waco ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisL Posted May 1, 2020 Share #5 Posted May 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, Wilbur said: The Waco ones. I think we learned some lessons from Waco & Ruby Ridge... What’s the series called, I’d like to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted May 1, 2020 Author Share #6 Posted May 1, 2020 1 minute ago, ChrisL said: I think we learned some lessons from Waco & Ruby Ridge... What’s the series called, I’d like to see it. Waco. The producers wanted to create a "no-blame" show. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted May 1, 2020 Author Share #7 Posted May 1, 2020 It doesn't address things like former weapons charges for Koresh or the fact that incendiary tear gas shells were found in the ashes. The two FBI negotiators, while good friends, still disagree with each other on FBI actions and potential outcomes. One stated later at a new posting, when his commander said "Waco is over", "Waco won't be over until the truth comes out. I am not going to let these guys (fellow FBI) re-write history. " No wonder conspiracy folks had a heyday with it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisL Posted May 1, 2020 Share #8 Posted May 1, 2020 I don’t know how to respond to this & Ruby Ridge without it going political. Let’s just say mistakes were made and hopefully we learned from them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtyhip Posted May 1, 2020 Share #9 Posted May 1, 2020 I watched it and it made me think about what I had originally thought about the situation. I mean, I knew that law enforcement sorta botched it, i the way they handled it. But, it made me think that maybe these people didn't need to be pushed into a corner like that. Not sure how to answer and comment without politics. Wild Country is a good series too. Those people got pushed into a corner as well. Cults are odd. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dottleshead ★ Posted May 1, 2020 Share #10 Posted May 1, 2020 I dunno. What did Fox News have to say about it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphie ★ Posted May 1, 2020 Share #11 Posted May 1, 2020 10 hours ago, Wilbur said: I have read the official versions and just watched the Netflix version. What do you think? I’ll tell you after I watch that, maybe tonight if I can remember that long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkpow Posted May 1, 2020 Share #12 Posted May 1, 2020 It's simple. That time in our history was a time when law enforcement adopted militant ethos and behavior in a broad scope in the application of their duties. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikeman564™ Posted May 1, 2020 Share #13 Posted May 1, 2020 was Tom Cruise involved? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted May 1, 2020 Author Share #14 Posted May 1, 2020 1 minute ago, bikeman564™ said: was Tom Cruise involved? I didn't know you were inclined that way.. Here you go.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted May 1, 2020 Author Share #15 Posted May 1, 2020 1 hour ago, donkpow said: It's simple. That time in our history was a time when law enforcement adopted militant ethos and behavior in a broad scope in the application of their duties. Not just yours. Back when law enforcement was becoming out-gunned, they needed to up their game. n this case, the ATF went in too big and too heavy handed. I think that things would have worked out peacefully had they not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkpow Posted May 1, 2020 Share #16 Posted May 1, 2020 18 minutes ago, Wilbur said: Not just yours. Back when law enforcement was becoming out-gunned, they needed to up their game. n this case, the ATF went in too big and too heavy handed. I think that things would have worked out peacefully had they not. I'd agree with most of that. The suggestion that more and bigger was a solution is a bit of a rub on me. You can go big but that doesn't necessarily mean you should bring it early in the game. Tanks?! Are you fucking kidding me? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted May 1, 2020 Author Share #17 Posted May 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, donkpow said: I'd agree with most of that. The suggestion that more and bigger was a solution is a bit of a rub on me. You can go big but that doesn't necessarily mean you should bring it early in the game. Tanks?! Are you fucking kidding me? Yeah, that's what I mean. Especially against your own civilians. Holy cow! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickinMD ★ Posted May 1, 2020 Share #18 Posted May 1, 2020 Thanks for bringing it up. I may watch the series, but I've NEVER seen a series or movie that did not intentionally stray from obvious truths - generally for dramatic reasons. I taught a lot of teenagers who saw the movie "JFK" and came away with a twisted understanding of President Kennedy's Assassination. That's always left me with a bad feeling about "historically based" movies and TV series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkpow Posted May 1, 2020 Share #19 Posted May 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, Wilbur said: Yeah, that's what I mean. Especially against your own civilians. Holy cow! Right. And Ruby Ridge was government snipers. You can't offer fake news when you roll like that. Overwhelming force is just too simple. Don't misunderstand, I am a law and order guy. Both situations exemplify unprofessional behavior and excess ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted May 1, 2020 Author Share #20 Posted May 1, 2020 7 minutes ago, MickinMD said: Thanks for bringing it up. I may watch the series, but I've NEVER seen a series or movie that did not intentionally stray from obvious truths - generally for dramatic reasons. I taught a lot of teenagers who saw the movie "JFK" and came away with a twisted understanding of President Kennedy's Assassination. That's always left me with a bad feeling about "historically based" movies and TV series. Yeah, but having been an adult news junkie when it happened and having read several accounts from both sides, I can formulate a pretty good picture of how things went down. There is pretty good evidence both the ATF and FBI lied. There is no evidence that was the case for the Davidians. I am not saying they were innocent but the evidence supports them in my opinion. Koresh may have been a nut job but maybe JC may have been too, held to the same light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Silly Posted May 1, 2020 Share #21 Posted May 1, 2020 Were they given opportunities to leave the compound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoseySusan Posted May 1, 2020 Share #22 Posted May 1, 2020 https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/waco/ I haven’t watched Waco, yet. But I have watched this PBS Frontline from back in the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randomguy Posted May 1, 2020 Share #23 Posted May 1, 2020 12 hours ago, Wilbur said: The Waco ones. Yeah, they were Wacko alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted May 1, 2020 Share #24 Posted May 1, 2020 14 hours ago, Wilbur said: So, how much fake news surrounded the Branch Davidians?What do you think? I don't think, at the time, it was "fake news" as much as uninformed, misinformed, and/or one sided. I think the BDs were clearly a screwed up bunch of people, but usually, that's not really a "crime" until there are actually criminal actions they are going to take against outsiders OR there are the seemingly common for cults criminal acts like rape and/or kidnapping/held against their will sorts of stuff. Death penalty worthy???? Usually not. Certainly a need for enforcement, though, and it's unknown to me how long they watched and how deep their knowledge was that law enforcement had regarding the BDs. It was "news to me" at the time, but maybe not to Waco locals and various levels of law enforcement. I'm sure law enforcement groups learned lots of good and bad stuff from the event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkpow Posted May 1, 2020 Share #25 Posted May 1, 2020 To be fair, there was also an issue with militant groups in the US at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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