That black man was clearly the aggressor

[Prophet Zacharia]

On 5/26/2020 at 11:14 PM, ChrisL said:

Interesting article that leaves some ambiguity.  Knee on the neck is not trained but neck restraints are authorized as long as it doesn’t restrict breathing.
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.kare11.com/amp/article/news/local/kare-11-investigates-experts-question-officers-actions/89-190fe263-f392-4c10-9308-9dc849a989c7

I love that the source is essentially Karen TV!

But I don’t think there is any ambiguity. Also from Karen TV: Minneapolis Police have been trained that they ought not kill restrained people because it costs the city big $ in civil suits.

The Department of Justice has warned against prone restraints since the mid-90's. The DOJ recommendations state: “As soon as the suspect is handcuffed, get him off his stomach.” 
 

Meanwhile, the Minneapolis Board of Peace Officer Standards and Training released a statement Wednesday. “The tactics displayed in the widely distributed bystander video do not appear to reflect the training that students receive when attending any of the institutions that make up our Minnesota Professional Peace Office Education System,” it said.

 

[maddmaxx ★]

The former officer in question has prior complaints.  There is a picture of him floating on the internet wearing an make america white again hat that has been debunked as a fake however so one has to be careful about social media.................as usual.

[maddmaxx ★]

On 5/26/2020 at 10:46 PM, ChrisL said:

Yeah good point, I don’t know...  

I can see it as a technique used while handcuffing a perp but the video's clearly show that the victim was already in handcuffs and being walked around.  Additionally unless my eyes deceive me (and they do at times) when the man lying on the ground says "I can't breath" , the officer intentionally grinds his knee in harder.  The account says that he held him like that for several minutes till the man became unresponsive.  Not a technique that most officers would approve of if true I think.

[ChrisL]

17 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

I can see it as a technique used while handcuffing a perp but the video's clearly show that the victim was already in handcuffs and being walked around.  Additionally unless my eyes deceive me (and they do at times) when the man lying on the ground says "I can't breath" , the officer intentionally grinds his knee in harder.  The account says that he held him like that for several minutes till the man became unresponsive.  Not a technique that most officers would approve of if true I think.

Yeah you hit the nail on the head.  

The ambiguity I was referring to was was if the neck restraint is an authorized and trained tactic still.  It seems that it still is but in many cases it’s not specifically addressed in policy.  This is the ambiguity.  I was referring to.

There is no question nor ambiguity that you get your knee off the suspects neck once cuffed and get them up in a seated position so they can breath.  

You guys all know my background and I’m not defending their actions, just commenting that neck restraints are a common practice still and when used properly not dangerous or brutal.   Of course, doing it in a manner that kills the suspect is...

 

[Randomguy]

41 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

neck restraints are a common practice still and when used properly not dangerous or brutal.

Yeah, but cops are not doctors  nor do they have any knowledge of underlying conditions (such as spinal problems) their detainee might have., so 'safe' in one person is clearly not in another.

The eyeball test says that it is dangerous as fuck and the 'used properly' approach does not account for the zealousness to do more than restrain that some cops feel they are entitled to provide as an extracurricular service on the restrained person.  If you can't do it right consistently, don't do it.  It sure seems like it is not done right damn often in public view.  I know arresting someone can be messy business, but you know brutality when you see it and neck kneeling is definitely it, 100% with no questions asked.

You might see it as effective, I sure see it as brutality in any case.

[ChrisL]

20 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

Yeah, but cops are not doctors  nor do they have any knowledge of underlying conditions (such as spinal problems) their detainee might have., so 'safe' in one person is clearly not in another.

The eyeball test says that it is dangerous as fuck and the 'used properly' approach does not account for the zealousness to do more than restrain that some cops feel they are entitled to provide as an extracurricular service on the restrained person.  If you can't do it right consistently, don't do it.  It sure seems like it is not done right damn often in public view.  I know arresting someone can be messy business, but you know brutality when you see it and neck kneeling is definitely it, 100% with no questions asked.

You might see it as effective, I sure see it as brutality in any case.

100% valid and the health/medical concerns do play into it.  

At this point I’ll respectfully back out of this thread. 

 

[Randomguy]

2 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

At this point I’ll respectfully back out of this thread. 

Ah, there is no winning in any position on this one.  People can be shitty and endanger cops, and cops can be shitty and endanger those they are meant to serve and protect.  It all sucks.

[Razors Edge ★]

1 minute ago, Randomguy said:

Ah, there is no winning in any position on this one.

Two things that generally are consistent for me - I wouldn't want to be a cop, and I wouldn't want to be a black guy.  Neither are easy.

[Dottleshead ★]

31 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Two things that generally are consistent for me - I wouldn't want to be a cop, and I wouldn't want to be a black guy.  Neither are easy.

This.

[Randomguy]

Holy shit, I just watched the whole George Floyd video.  I am furious, that cop should be in jail the rest of his life, short as it will be once the inmates rightfully get him.   How does this even happen in this day and age?

[Razors Edge ★]

1 minute ago, Randomguy said:

Holy shit, I just watched the whole George Floyd video.  I am furious, that cop should be in jail the rest of his life, short as it will be once the inmates rightfully get him.   How does this even happen in this day and age?

I'm happy to make a bet with you about that "jail" bit.  I'll even give you 10:1 odds.

[Randomguy]

19 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

I'm happy to make a bet with you about that "jail" bit.  I'll even give you 10:1 odds.

At what point does it  become a moral imperative to physically attack the police to stop a killing?  I think any one of those bystanders, after the man hadn't moved for a couple of minutes, would be completely justified in doing so.   Not smart on individual basis, but letting a guy die like that?  

I think there will be much more rioting if the cop isn't very quickly arrested and processed and later prosecuted fully.  I am guessing he probably will spend time in jail, but it will be in a very protected way and away from inmates that would have the ability to kill him.

Get ready for a shit ton of NFL player/anthem protests again, I will be shocked if a few whole teams don't participate. 

[Razors Edge ★]

24 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

I am guessing he probably will spend time in jail, but it will be in a very protected way and away from inmates that would have the ability to kill him.

Like I said, 10:1 in your favor.  I'll put a $100 up.  Not convicted and jailed after the full process is completed (grand jury, prosecution, trial, verdict, appeals, etc).  So, say by 2023(?) or sooner (assuming charges are not brought or are dropped quickly), you could be $1,000 richer or $100 poorer