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What's your non-negotiable?

MoseySusan

By MoseySusan
in The Café

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Square Wheels Flahute

Square Wheels

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Everyone has a price.

A man asks a woman if she would be willing to sleep with him if he pays her an exorbitant sum. She replies affirmatively. He then names a paltry amount and asks if she would still be willing to sleep with him for the revised fee. The woman is greatly offended and replies as follows:

She: What kind of woman do you think I am?
He: We’ve already established that. Now we’re just haggling over the price.

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maddmaxx Flahute

maddmaxx ★

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31 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

Everyone has a price.

A man asks a woman if she would be willing to sleep with him if he pays her an exorbitant sum. She replies affirmatively. He then names a paltry amount and asks if she would still be willing to sleep with him for the revised fee. The woman is greatly offended and replies as follows:

She: What kind of woman do you think I am?
He: We’ve already established that. Now we’re just haggling over the price.

Sure.  I was right in the middle of the long setup and you barge in and steal it.

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MoseySusan KOM / QOM

MoseySusan

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3 hours ago, Zealot said:

Then here’s the test of a non negotiable. If this were a survival situation, wouldn’t this still hold for you?

In the state of nature, there is no negotiation. We would need a social contract for the idea of negotiating to take on meaning. 
 

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Zealot Domestique

Zealot

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1 minute ago, roadsue said:

In the state of nature, there is no negotiation. We would need a social contract for the idea of negotiating to take on meaning. 
 

Humanity is also in ‘the state of nature’. Our ideas and philosophies, cultures and societies evolved from our natural state and are thus part of the natural order of the evolutionary model, wouldn’t you agree? Survival of the fittest because we possess the ability to create the social construct(s) we have and thus we are the dominant species on the planet; the apex predators.  

Negotiation, in its simplest form, began when one person needed something another had, but did not possess the raw strength or skill to take it. 

So, I reiterate, wouldn’t a survival model be the truest test of our non negotiables?

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Randomguy Flahute

Randomguy

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3 hours ago, Square Wheels said:

Everyone has a price.

A man asks a woman if she would be willing to sleep with him if he pays her an exorbitant sum. She replies affirmatively. He then names a paltry amount and asks if she would still be willing to sleep with him for the revised fee. The woman is greatly offended and replies as follows:

She: What kind of woman do you think I am?
He: We’ve already established that. Now we’re just haggling over the price.

I would do a lot of things for a lot of money that I wouldn't do for a little money.

We are all whores of some stripe or other.

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MoseySusan KOM / QOM

MoseySusan

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7 minutes ago, Zealot said:

Negotiation, in its simplest form, began when one person needed something another had, but did not possess the raw strength or skill to take it. 

I agree. In this example, the people developed a social contract, and negotiation has meaning. 
Within this survival level contract, I would probably err more on the side of consequences, instead of obligation. An action is right because of its results (acquisition of something needed), not because of normative standards for right action (morality). 

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Zealot Domestique

Zealot

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2 minutes ago, roadsue said:

I agree. In this example, the people developed a social contract, and negotiation has meaning. 
Within this survival level contract, I would probably err more on the side of consequences, instead of obligation. An action is right because of its results (acquisition of something needed), not because of normative standards for right action (morality). 

Indeed. Yet, it’s a slippery slope. If an action is right, simply because of a ‘need’, then that alone would justify many of our ‘ills’, such as murder, acquisition (conquering), rape, etc.  

You know me. I believe in intrinsic human understanding of right and wrong and action based on that understanding (morality). And you already know how I would debate my position. 

But simply for the question at hand, would your non negotiable(s) become void in a survival or base situation? I’m really not asking you to answer me. Just food for thought. 

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MoseySusan KOM / QOM

MoseySusan

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9 minutes ago, Zealot said:

But simply for the question at hand, would your non negotiable(s) become void in a survival or base situation? I’m really not asking you to answer me. Just food for thought. 

I already stated that for survival I would err. I’d like to think I could maintain deontology, but I’m already compromised in the status quo. Not in my personal relationships, but in my consumerism. 
It’s altogether unsustainable for my US middle-class use of natural resources to scale into levels of universal access, for one example. And I’m knowingly complicit in using people in other nations and in prisons as a means to an obscene level of corporate profit. 

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Zealot Domestique

Zealot

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Yes, you did state you believed you err. And I understand the conundrum presented by most of our current states of compromise, specifically from social conscience that developed and/or refines itself as we age. And there are many shades of grey.

But it makes me wonder what my ‘non-negotiable’ truly is and to what length I would go to maintain it. I believe deeply that there are decisions that I’ve made that will hold even on the pain of death.

 

This conversation actually came up a few days ago here at home with several family members. And I posited the same query. 

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Zealot Domestique

Zealot

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11 minutes ago, roadsue said:

Family situations are what prompted me to wonder. 

An example I used was Mahatma Gandhi. His non negotiable - non violent resistance  - was tested to the extreme. 

His personal integrity is something I admire deeply. 

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MoseySusan KOM / QOM

MoseySusan

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Students in my classroom have to keep their hands, arms, and feet off other desks. I can let them appeal for a lot of other behaviors, but this one’s not up for negotiation. I even have a chair meant especially for students who have to keep a leg elevated after knee surgery, as happens frequently with HS athletes. It has adjustable height and a bit of a groove in the seat where the leg can rest. 

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Zealot Domestique

Zealot

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For me, I learned a long time ago to stop saying “I’ll never...”. Seems like whenever I stated that, God laughed and tested it. 

So I guess that only the really deep, soul divining things are where I define and keep my non negotiables.

But I draw a hard line at mixing ice cream with soda...  😉 

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