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Scenes from the front lines


Scrapr

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Such troubling times, but you cannot ignore the passion and care some are showing.  Unmarked vans, grabbing citizens off the streets, etc....  this stuff should not be happening in the United States.  It is something we should only hear about happening in places like China. Of course, it should not happen in China either.

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Is there ongoing violent protesting in the below cities? I know of some peaceful protests locally, but no rioting, here. We’re not on the list, either, but I’m not sure if it’s because we don’t have enough mayhem, or our mayor isn’t liberal enough (I think he’s fairly Progressive, FWIW)?
 

“President Donald Trump on Monday said he would send law enforcement to more U.S. cities, as a federal crackdown on anti-racism protests in Oregon with unmarked cars and unidentified forces in camouflage angered people across the country.

Trump, a Republican, cited New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, Detroit, Baltimore and Oakland, California, as places to send federal agents, noting the cities’ mayors were “liberal Democrats.””

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1 hour ago, Airehead said:

Such troubling times, but you cannot ignore the passion and care some are showing.  Unmarked vans, grabbing citizens off the streets, etc....  this stuff should not be happening in the United States.  It is something we should only hear about happening in places like China. Of course, it should not happen in China either.

There are excesses on both sides. I won't say more on this forum.

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15 minutes ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

Is there ongoing violent protesting in the below cities? I know of some peaceful protests locally, but no rioting, here. We’re not on the list, either, but I’m not sure if it’s because we don’t have enough mayhem, or our mayor isn’t liberal enough (I think he’s fairly Progressive, FWIW)?
 

“President Donald Trump on Monday said he would send law enforcement to more U.S. cities, as a federal crackdown on anti-racism protests in Oregon with unmarked cars and unidentified forces in camouflage angered people across the country.

Trump, a Republican, cited New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, Detroit, Baltimore and Oakland, California, as places to send federal agents, noting the cities’ mayors were “liberal Democrats.””

Baltimore has had extremely peaceful demonstrations, as noted and applauded by our Republican Governor.  I think the city's people don't want a repeat of the damage from the 2015 Freddie Gray Riots and the resulting harm to local citizens - destroyed minority owned restaurants, not being able to get prescriptions, suburban people staying away afterward, etc.

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3 minutes ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

Yes, but one is side is bound by the Constitution to not go to excesses.

And the other side is beholden to local laws & statutes.  Some of those “peaceful” demonstrations haven’t been...

Sad that the peaceful demonstrations & positive responses to them aren’t newsworthy...

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6 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

And the other side is beholden to local laws & statutes.  Some of those “peaceful” demonstrations haven’t been...

Agreed, and people should be arrested when they are violating the law. But the Government shouldn’t violate the Constitution in an effort to appear “tough” on protesters.  
 

There was a woman who was tackled and detained for 9 + hours this weekend by homeland security officers for the “crime” of drawing chalk on the ground outside a federal building, delineating it’s property line.  And the above video of a protestor getting hit repeatedly and sprayed with teargas while standing motionless.

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The Feds have re energized the protests. 

This is a pretty good timeline story

https://www.opb.org/news/article/police-violence-portland-protest-federal-officers/

note...all this protest is a few blocks. The Justice Center & Fed Courthouse & IRS building are within about 3 blocks. The rest of the city is nice & peaceful. Even the blocks under seige are fine during the daytime. It's in the evening into the wee hours that stuff happens. Portland is a neighborhood town not centered on the downtown. So the neighborhood I'm in is "normal". I walked to the coffee shop, walked to the park with Eos. There were about 15 people with signs up on one corner Friday. Being respectul & crossing on the walk signal & all

I drove past this afternoon. Foot traffic was low. IDK if the virus or the protests. Very calm this afternoon. A BBQ and other food carts set up in the park. A few protesters in front of the buildings. Windows boarded up for a few blocks on ea side of the "hot" zone

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19 hours ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

Interesting. And yet Trump is threatening to send Federal “Police” in.

Detroit hasn't had any protests get out of hand in months yet Detroit's on the list.  I think many police chiefs found that if you just let the protesters protest and keep a police presents in case things get out of hand then fewer bad things happen.

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On 7/21/2020 at 2:03 PM, Mr. Grumpy said:

Detroit hasn't had any protests get out of hand in months yet Detroit's on the list.  I think many police chiefs found that if you just let the protesters protest and keep a police presents in case things get out of hand then fewer bad things happen.

Has there been a change? DHS troops now assigned to Detroit. 
 

@ChrisL... is there special training for a police officer to be an effective riot police responder? I understand military training itself and police work aren’t a natural crossover? Do border patrol and other Homeland Security officers have relatable experience?

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Protesters simply want to be heard.  Listen to them, calm ensues.  And change ensues.  Which is good for everyone.

Don't listen to them, and you get MLK's "riots are the voice of the unheard"

Attack them, they fight back.

Portland?  They were down to 100 peaceful protesters a day, and dwindling.  No violence, no looting, no arrests.  The feds came in, now we've got great footage of Lawlessness and Lack of Order that only one man can stop to run in campaign ads.

How can you not see that our tax dollars and people's lives are being used for political gain, nothing more?

Sickening, really.

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40 minutes ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

Has there been a change? DHS troops now assigned to Detroit. 
 

@ChrisL... is there special training for a police officer to be an effective riot police responder? I understand military training itself and police work aren’t a natural crossover? Do border patrol and other Homeland Security officers have relatable experience?

We went through extensive riot control training as an MP and actually deployed it several times.  MOUT & urban tactical training is a cornerstone of the MP mission.  Not so much training in it as a civilian cop but there was some.  Not a focus in training back then and unknown if it is currently.

No clue on other federal LE agencies and relatable experience.  I think I see where you are going with the question and I have my doubts but honestly don’t know.

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2 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

We went through extensive riot control training as an MP and actually deployed it several times.  MOUT & urban tactical training is a cornerstone of the MP mission.  Not so much training in it as a civilian cop but there was some.  Not a focus in training back then and unknown if it is currently.

No clue on other federal LE agencies and relatable experience.  I think I see where you are going with the question and I have my doubts but honestly don’t know.

How about prison guard riot squads.  :whistle:

 

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21 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

 I think I see where you are going with the question and I have my doubts but honestly don’t know.

My concern is that undertrained (or wrongly trained) people react poorly to stress. And fear. Add on a martyr or crusader complex and politics, you get people far more likely to act more aggressively than situations call for.

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1 hour ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

Has there been a change? DHS troops now assigned to Detroit.

The protest that is making local news is a group of people are blocking the exit of the parking lots where the schools keep the buses.  They want to prevent the busses from taking kids to summer school where they can catch and spread COVID.  I disagree with their position because summer school is voluntary and parents have the right to assess the safety of the environment themselves but the protests have been peaceful.

There is no need for jackbooted thugs to introduce violence into the situation.

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1 minute ago, Mr. Grumpy said:

There is no need for jackbooted thugs to introduce violence into the situation.

We had a major BLM demonstration about two weeks ago, at rush hour on a fairly major state highway. Remembering a black motorist who had been killed by Police about 15 years ago. It was a major inconvenience for commuters to deal with it, and I’m sure few gained sympathy from the act, but the police closed the road, let the protest happen, and then it was over. No arrests, no violence, no mayhem.

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Just now, Mr. Grumpy said:

It looks like the Wall of Moms donning cycling helmets and armed with leaf blower to defend against tear gas won.

 

 

Not until the cheeto has sung. I have hopeful pessimism. 

in other news the Wall of Moms are fracturing. Also the food thing in the park was taken over by an armed volunteer. So the originator said I quit. The original guy got several hundred thousand dollars in donations. He was very clear & transparent. He asked everyone not to send any money in. Then he donated all of it to a long time group called Don't Shoot PDX. I think the "new" guy on the grills saw how much cash was coming in and decided to help himself. 

Like sands through the hourglass so are the days of our lives

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6 minutes ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

We had a major BLM demonstration about two weeks ago, at rush hour on a fairly major state highway. Remembering a black motorist who had been killed by Police about 15 years ago. It was a major inconvenience for commuters to deal with it, and I’m sure few gained sympathy from the act, but the police closed the road, let the protest happen, and then it was over. No arrests, no violence, no mayhem.

We had a BLM demonstration on Woodward in Birmingham.  Woodward is like Main Street for Detroit's northern suburbs.  Birmingham is the lily white community where you buy your home when you've finally got that big promotion at GM.  Police blocked the road and let the protester do their thing.  They routed all of Woodward's traffic through downtown Birmingham which turn that little suburban downtown into a tangled mess.  

Like what happened in your area, not much sympathy was gained.  Although I did see quite a bit of support from the drivers on the other side of the road.  The important thing, there were no arrests and no violence.

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1 hour ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

My concern is that undertrained (or wrongly trained) people react poorly to stress. And fear. Add on a martyr or crusader complex and politics, you get people far more likely to act more aggressively than situations call for.

I agree on the first part and that was my concern.  I don’t know if we can make the leap that the officers are taking on a martyr or crusader complex or at least paint them all with the same broad brush. 

My gut tells me many of these guys got uprooted from their homes & families, sent to PDX  to do job they probably don’t want any part of.  Ad in the first part of our concern and you have a recipe for disaster.

 

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26 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

I don’t know if we can make the leap that the officers are taking on a martyr or crusader complex or at least paint them all with the same broad brush.

No, not all. But it’s difficult to believe after hearing from the temporary head of Homeland Security that they’ve not  gone in primed with a hard-ass agenda.

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2 hours ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

No, not all. But it’s difficult to believe after hearing from the temporary head of Homeland Security that they’ve not  gone in primed with a hard-ass agenda.

Maybe.  The truth is we really don’t know what their directions were.  Maybe they were briefed to kick ass & take names, maybe they were scared shitless by the angry mobs throwing crap at them and over reacted. Maybe they just weren’t trained for these contingencies. Maybe all of the above?   

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9 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

What neighborhood are you in?  I lived on NW Johnson and 19th.

MIL has lived forever in Woodstock neighborhood. 48th & Steele. When I'm in Portland I stay with her. It's awesome to walk over to the coffee shop & a few restaraunts. Homeless are too bad. Although I have to get out early to collect deposit cans & bottles on recycle day

19th & Johnson is all upscale and 'spensive now

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58 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

Are there still a ton of strip clubs in Portland?

of course. There was a stripper food delivery when stuff was shut down. One club off the Ross Island bridge had pick up of food. Rhey had some sort of car line to a tent. I suspect there was strippers in the tent

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