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I got tear gassed..


Scrapr

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how is that for click bait?

on Reddit there was an "ask" for people to go downtown Portland and help take the trash away. People are like I can take 3 bags. There is a park across the street from the Federal courthouse. They have set up Medic stations & a big food operation. Maybe 10-15 grills & a few prep tables. A mountain of coolers. 

So I volunteered our trucks. I went down there today to check it out  & relay to our drivers & dispatch.  I did not touch anything. As I'm walking back to my car my eyes start stinging a bit. This would have been 12 hours after the previous night tear gas

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2 minutes ago, Scrapr said:

how is that for click bait?

on Reddit there was an "ask" for people to go downtown Portland and help take the trash away. People are like I can take 3 bags. There is a park across the street from the Federal courthouse. They have set up Medic stations & a big food operation. Maybe 10-15 grills & a few prep tables. A mountain of coolers. 

So I volunteered our trucks. I went down there today to check it out  & relay to our drivers & dispatch.  I did not touch anything. As I'm walking back to my car my eyes start stinging a bit. This would have been 12 hours after the previous night tear gas

Why aren’t police arresting litterers? Doesn’t every municipality have laws preventing littering?

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1 minute ago, BuffJim said:

Why aren’t police arresting litterers? Doesn’t every municipality have laws preventing littering?

Yeah, They should lock up the Feds for spreading all that tear gas & pepper spray canisters

The stuff we are picking up has been collected by volunters & bagged up nicely at the curb. I've seen worse job sites

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4 minutes ago, Scrapr said:

This would have been 12 hours after the previous night tear gas

Years ago.... summer of 1976 I lived in an apartment in Milwaukee (24th and Wells) for summer classes at college.    Some guy in the apartment building across the street went nuts... started shooting our of his apartment into the street.  Of course then the police arrived and they started shooting back.  This went on for at least an hour or more.  Then they teargassed the apartment and the war ended.

Of course my roommate and I went out to see what we could see...   There was a TV camera guy standing on the hood of a car trying to take video into the apartment.   We told him to get off of the car.  He told us were to go.  Then the huge lingering cloud of tear gas got blow back towards the area.  OMG that stuff is nasty.   The TV camera guy got overwhelmed and fell off of the car, smashed the camera.  Kama is wicked some times....

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5 minutes ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

Isn’t tear gas banned as a chemical weapon by the Genova convention? Who’s using it, DHS, or other forces, too?

It banned asphyxiating gasses, chemical biological gasses and nerve agents.  I don’t believe tear gas or pepper spray falls into these categories.  

They are irritants for sure but you can still breath, they won’t kill you like mustard gas.

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8 minutes ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

Isn’t tear gas banned as a chemical weapon by the Genova convention? Who’s using it, DHS, or other forces, too?

Oh and every LE agency has used it for a very long time.  We carried mace which was later replaced by pepper spray.  

Agree or disagree with its use but I’m certain federal, state and local LE are using it.  Not sure who is deploying it in Portland though.

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21 hours ago, Scrapr said:

A couple nights ago the Wall of Dads brought leaf blowers to blow the TG back from whence it came. It worked so good the Feds started detaining protestors with blowers. Then last night the Feds started using the confiscated blowers 

Then protesters leveled up with this:

Feds may have stolen leafblowers but we just leveled up

I think this is both hilarious and ingenious.  It's like Spy-vs-Spy.

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37 minutes ago, BuffJim said:

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I think tear gas deployment may not be the correct response to littering. Or was the littering the result of tear gas deployment? It’s hard to tell. It is clear that large numbers of people will cause litter, no matter their political affiliation. Much was made of the clean-up efforts after the second amendment protestors in Charlottesville.

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59 minutes ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

I think tear gas deployment may not be the correct response to littering. Or was the littering the result of tear gas deployment? It’s hard to tell. It is clear that large numbers of people will cause litter, no matter their political affiliation. Much was made of the clean-up efforts after the second amendment protestors in Charlottesville.

The "very fine people" need something to point to to justify the beatings and the driving of cars through crowds of people who aren't into bigotry.

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14 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

The "very fine people" need something to point to to justify the beatings and the driving of cars through crowds of people who aren't into bigotry.

I don’t pretend to know how violent the protests were in Portland to have the DHS move in. I see some graffiti and broken windows and think “meh”, but maybe the Federal Building needed protecting. But I don’t know after that. And I’m still young enough to reject the idea of federal officers doing anything in my city’s streets to think I’d sit idle if that happened. I’d see it as a fascist invasion requiring some form of response.

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4 hours ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

I don’t pretend to know how violent the protests were in Portland to have the DHS move in. I see some graffiti and broken windows and think “meh”, but maybe the Federal Building needed protecting. But I don’t know after that. And I’m still young enough to reject the idea of federal officers doing anything in my city’s streets to think I’d sit idle if that happened. I’d see it as a fascist invasion requiring some form of response.

It makes my heart glad that the people of Portland are aggressively protesting and defending against an unlawful invasion of unwanted occupying force.  It is pretty clear that they are behaving thuggishly towards the people of Portland, and it is crystal clear that the DHS thugs are inciting far more than they are 'solving', they aren't solving anything, obviously.

So, I know this analogy has been stated before, but where are all the gun nuts who specifically have assault weapons (so they say) to protect against this specific type of overreach by the government?  Right wingers ought to be there by the bus-fulls, but are conspicuously absent.

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41 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

It makes my heart glad that the people of Portland are aggressively protesting and defending against an unlawful invasion of unwanted occupying force.  It is pretty clear that they are behaving thuggishly towards the people of Portland, and it is crystal clear that the DHS thugs are inciting far more than they are 'solving', they aren't solving anything, obviously.

So, I know this analogy has been stated before, but where are all the gun nuts who specifically have assault weapons (so they say) to protect against this specific type of overreach by the government?  Right wingers ought to be there by the bus-fulls, but are conspicuously absent.

Kristof is from a small town just West of Portland. Very truly a "dead end" town. It is amazing where he has gone since he got out. He has written a bit about the kids in his class that did not get out. I believe he was in Portland covering the protests

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/25/opinion/sunday/portland-protest-federal-troops.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

There were a half dozen protests yesterday all over Portland on Saturday. One 2 blocks from MIL house. 

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7 minutes ago, Scrapr said:

Kristof is from a small town just West of Portland. Very truly a "dead end" town. It is amazing where he has gone since he got out. He has written a bit about the kids in his class that did not get out. I believe he was in Portland covering the protests

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/25/opinion/sunday/portland-protest-federal-troops.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

No NYT subscription, what is the postcard version?

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Just now, Randomguy said:

No NYT subscription, what is the postcard version?

A short blurb

So I invite Hannity and Carlson to escape their bubbles and visit Portland, stroll along the Willamette River and enjoy a glass of local pinot noir. They’ll be safe — unless they venture at night into the two blocks beside the federal courthouse.

Citizens need to be vigilant there, for armed groups periodically storm the streets to attack peaceful visitors. I’m talking, of course, about the uninvited federal forces.

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1 minute ago, Forum Administrator said:

Thanks for standing up for the cause. I've been tear gassed while protesting twice this summer...  It hurt for about 48 hours.  

to be clear...I have attended a couple protests. However I was only tear gassed by residual TG on the trash I went to look at for our drivers to pick up. I don't think I touched anything there. Never picked up anything. Just TG hanging in the air from the previous night

I'm only a AA baseball prospect. I'm not ready for the majors

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From Dottie's favorite city, Bothell..

So here is what happened yesterday at the “protest.” We were waiting and watching live from the precinct as the rioters set 5 portable construction offices on fire. They then completely destroyed, looted, and lit the Starbucks on 12 ave and E Cherry St. on fire. As the group was walking they were breaking random car windows, car prowling, and spray painting everything...

They made their way to the East precinct with all of us inside. They spray painted the building, tried to break the fence, they threw a mortar that left an 8 inch hole in the wall... We could see a person pouring gasoline around the building that we were occupying, which is when all of us came out. We commanded people to “move back” as we advanced. People who assaulted us were arrested. We formed a line guarding the block. People threw paint, rocks, metal, frozen water bottles, glass and improvised EXPLOSIVES at us which is when we used our dispersal tools. In the process I was injured along with 20 other officers. Yes, I was injured even though I was wearing shin guards, and other protective gear.

The puzzling part is people were chanting “I don’t see no riot here, take off your riot gear.”

Why didn’t we deploy and stop them when the looting started? Our instructions were not to respond to property damage. The fire department was delayed in response because of the big hostile crowd but they made it and started putting out fires. We only responded when they were about to literally burn down our precinct with everyone in it and the connecting apartment complexes. This is insane. I don’t know what the message here is anymore. These people were 99% white and young. They were saying the most horrible things you can imagine to officers of color. They were also assaulting each other in the crowd. I saw signs and shirts that indicated Anarchy, Anti-Christ, abolishing religion, bringing down the government, defund/abolish SPD, defunding Seattle Parks and Rec (huh?), abolishing America?! I don’t think that the point to those riots is anything but inflicting as much damage and injury as possible.

About my injury: I sustained a torn medial meniscus and I most probably will require surgery to be able to live an active lifestyle again.

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20 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

From Dottie's favorite city, Bothell..

So here is what happened yesterday at the “protest.” We were waiting and watching live from the precinct as the rioters set 5 portable construction offices on fire. They then completely destroyed, looted, and lit the Starbucks on 12 ave and E Cherry St. on fire. As the group was walking they were breaking random car windows, car prowling, and spray painting everything...

They made their way to the East precinct with all of us inside. They spray painted the building, tried to break the fence, they threw a mortar that left an 8 inch hole in the wall... We could see a person pouring gasoline around the building that we were occupying, which is when all of us came out. We commanded people to “move back” as we advanced. People who assaulted us were arrested. We formed a line guarding the block. People threw paint, rocks, metal, frozen water bottles, glass and improvised EXPLOSIVES at us which is when we used our dispersal tools. In the process I was injured along with 20 other officers. Yes, I was injured even though I was wearing shin guards, and other protective gear.

The puzzling part is people were chanting “I don’t see no riot here, take off your riot gear.”

Why didn’t we deploy and stop them when the looting started? Our instructions were not to respond to property damage. The fire department was delayed in response because of the big hostile crowd but they made it and started putting out fires. We only responded when they were about to literally burn down our precinct with everyone in it and the connecting apartment complexes. This is insane. I don’t know what the message here is anymore. These people were 99% white and young. They were saying the most horrible things you can imagine to officers of color. They were also assaulting each other in the crowd. I saw signs and shirts that indicated Anarchy, Anti-Christ, abolishing religion, bringing down the government, defund/abolish SPD, defunding Seattle Parks and Rec (huh?), abolishing America?! I don’t think that the point to those riots is anything but inflicting as much damage and injury as possible.

About my injury: I sustained a torn medial meniscus and I most probably will require surgery to be able to live an active lifestyle again.

Overall, we rate NOQ Report Right Biased based on story selection and editorial positions that always favor the right. We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting due to poor sourcing and a lack of transparency regarding ownership.

 

Analysis / Bias

In review, NOQ Report publishes news and commentary with a conservative perspective. The website does not produce original news reporting, but rather covers existing news stories and offers opinions about the story. The wording of headlines and articles often contain emotionally loaded language such as this: If Corbyn had won, American leftists here would be making grand comparisons. This story, which is an unlabeled opinion piece does not contain any form of sourcing and contains highly emotional wording within the article such as this: “This is an idiotic move by the Democrat-friendly media, but I won’t stop them. Let them try to salvage and rework the narrative.” When it comes to sourcing most stories either are not sourced at all or self-link back to themselves.

Editorially, all stories favor the right and denigrate the left. They also do not align with the consensus of science regarding human-influenced climate change and they promote biblical conspiracy theories such as this: Does Bible prophecy point to climate change ALARMISM as the real existential threat? The basic conspiracy here is that climate change is a tool used to implement socialism.

image.png.fd63f07bfee8920433ae52115f53069d.png

 

So basically, all hard-core right wing BS, all the time.  Nice find, fair and balanced, all that.

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17 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

So basically, all hard-core right wing BS, all the time.  Nice find, fair and balanced, all that.

What is this bullshit?  My post was a direct firsthand report of an officer on the scene.

Take your right-wing, socialist-wing carp and shove it up your RPI infested rear-end.

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Scrapr, you are a patriot.  DOING something about it, not just whining or making things worse.

Yeah, I'm disgusted by the protesters burning down police stations.  Just stupid.  I 100% understand the reason for the violence for the first few days, but the point was made.

And all around the country, it seemed the protesters realized that, the violence had almost completely ended though protest continued.

The escalation back into rioting and violence in Portland start absolutely because the Feds showed up with the order to escalate it.  Unfortunately, protesters are reactionary, not always clear thinking, so they played right into it.  Now we have and out of control country that only one man can save.  This part of it scares me quite a bit.  This is without a doubt the formation of a government army to attack it's own citizens.  This is the very reason for the need and implementation of the 2nd amendment.  Our forefathers didn't WANT a standing army for this very moment, preferring instead a private and trained militia in case we needed to defend ourselves.  This is so wrong, so anti-everything America stands for.  Forget the SS, this is what The king was doing back in the 1770's.

And, quite interestingly, the colonists responded with creativity,  Being vastly outgunned, they found many ways to foil the troops with whatever was at their disposal.  If they had leaf blowers, rubber balls, umbrellas and garbage can lids, they would have used them.  Maybe we just need to throw some coffee in the Columbia river.  I do find this part intriguing (though I could do without the fireworks and lasers, but I'm not the one being gassed by my own country)

What in the world gives the feds the right to confiscate leaf blowers? 

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27 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

My post was a direct firsthand report of an officer on the scene.

Posted on a hard-core right wing website labeled as 'extremist'.  I did a copy/paste of the first paragraph and came up with the 'article' here: https://noqreport.com/2020/07/27/an-injured-seattle-police-officers-facebook-post-shatters-the-lefts-protest-narrative/.  Did they hire a writer for the cop?  Does the cop exist?  If the cop exists, is there an axe to grind, any affiliations with right-wing groups/hard core trumper?   Are any other competent and actual news sites reporting the same?  

There are guides out there to spotting fake news, I will post one for you:

https://www.freedomforuminstitute.org/first-amendment-center/primers/fake-news-primer/

 

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5 minutes ago, 12string said:

The escalation back into rioting and violence in Portland start absolutely because the Feds showed up with the order to escalate it. 

I have said this a bunch of times. The protests were peaceful in Columbus until the police started lobbing tear gas into peaceful protesters. I was on the lawn of the statehouse the first time I got it. Most of us where just standing around. 
 

I also believe the National Guard was called in to protect the protesters, not the police. Once they were here, the random tear gassing and pepper spraying stopped. 

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Just now, Forum Administrator said:

I also believe the National Guard was called in to protect the protesters, not the police. Once they were here, the random tear gassing and pepper spraying stopped. 

Wow, that's quite interesting.  I hadn't hear that.

Don't know if it's more, or less scary that we have National Guard (actual military) pitted against Homeland Security (fake troops).  

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7 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

Posted on a hard-core right wing website labeled as 'extremist', that you linked.  Did they hire a writer for the cop?  Does the cop exist?  If the cop exists, is there an axe to grind, any affiliations with right-wing groups/hard core trumper?   Are any other competent and actual news sites reporting the same?  

There are guides out there to spotting fake news, I will post one for you:

https://www.freedomforuminstitute.org/first-amendment-center/primers/fake-news-primer/

 

RG you are full of shit and making stuff up.  I posed no link.  This was a personal write up of a city officer who was confronted by a group if people about ready to burn down the building that the officers were manning.

Again you can take your fake news stuff and shove it.

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5 minutes ago, Forum Administrator said:

The protests were peaceful in Columbus

As were the ones I saw in NYC, multiples passed by my block.  People I know who were in the protests say they were not violent, but angsty about the whole George Floyd thing.  Shoutings and such were not kind to the police.  According to pretty much all accounts, the cops did the instigating with the pushings/shovings/beatings and such.  I am sure the "fuck the police" chants didn't help the cops moods or perceptions, but when you get paid to keep the peace, then you just gotta do your job and actually keep the peace as best you can.  I am sure some of the beatings/arrests were called for, but the corralling and then beating the corralled protesters certainly doesn't qualify as lawful in any way, and this seemed to happen pretty damn consistently.

Cops can be great people, but they can also be assholes, and NYC cops often are.  Groups of any sort promote jerk behavior, and the cops would be no different.  The cops here certainly feel they are above the law from every vantage point I have seen, and they seem to have taken their frustrations out on the protesters every day.

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15 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

I posted no link. 

You are right, you didn't.  I did the websearch and it turned up the article with the exact text you posted.  I realized that I thought you linked it, and made my edits before you replied, sorry about that.  You did post completely fake news, though, or at least appears to be.

The sentiment remains, bullshit article (again, right here: https://noqreport.com/2020/07/27/an-injured-seattle-police-officers-facebook-post-shatters-the-lefts-protest-narrative/), extremist site, not credible.  You need better sources and fact checking, because actual facts are your friends, not your enemas.

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11 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

You are right, you didn't.  I did the websearch and it turned up the article with the exact text you posted.  I realized that I thought you linked it, and made my edits before you replied, sorry about that.  You did post completely fake news, though.

The sentiment remains, bullshit article, extremist site, not credible.  You need better sources and fact checking, because actual facts are your friends, not your enemas.

But it is derived from a Facebook post, and what we know about FB is that it is a good source of information.

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1 hour ago, Razors Edge said:

But it is derived from a Facebook post, and what we know about FB is that it is a good source of information.

Ok, so if he saw a facebook post and not the article that popped up first when the text of his post was put in a google search, then it is possible that he didn't read the extremists right wing assholery site's article.  It is possible that I assumed wrong, and you all know what happens when you assume.

But that would mean that he merely read a repost (unless he is buddy's with the cop in Seattle, which is unlikely at best) on facebook from idiot right wing echo chamber friends and assumed it was all true and not a fabricated spin and posted it here as fact.    So we are chattering on either an extremist site's article or a facebook post which may be fabricated or completely spun, and planted as evidence of something that no other news site seems to be reporting on. 

I am not buying it either way, unless there is actual evidence of this in other, real, news sites.  Maybe there will be, and those sites are all slow to report what would be sure to gain wide national attention and readership, were it to be real.

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4 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

She's more like someone up your alley!  Elyssa Khalifé is clearly a Parr8 "YES!"!!!

 

I would have a hard time, she is clearly a moron who excessively exaggerates anything to fit a narrative.  I have doubts that this a a real account, but even if so, you can go through the quoted part line-by-line and recognize the nonsense/bullshit..

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1 minute ago, Randomguy said:

I have doubts that this a a real account,

A half dozen posts in three years, all but one in the last week?  I would imagine if it isn't "real", though, she (the cop in the photos) will clear thing up. Luckily, we've got "proof" of the Seattle shenanigans now!

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11 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

A half dozen posts in three years, all but one in the last week?  I would imagine if it isn't "real", though, she (the cop in the photos) will clear thing up. Luckily, we've got "proof" of the Seattle shenanigans now!

Hmm, no facebook friends, either, and trying to use a Bothell police insignia on a personal social media website is sure to get anyone fired.  So much BS...

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On 7/27/2020 at 12:02 PM, Randomguy said:

Groups of any sort promote jerk behavior, and the cops would be no different.  The cops here certainly feel they are above the law from every vantage point I have seen, and they seem to have taken their frustrations out on the protesters every day.

The only things I have participated in were the annual March For Life in Washington DC and the Stand in the Gap rally in Washington. They were not protests and there wasn’t any violence. There were a few baby killers protesting our rally but no violence.

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On 7/27/2020 at 12:17 PM, Razors Edge said:

The sentiment remains, bullshit article, extremist site, not credible.  You need better sources and fact checking, because actual facts are your friends, not your enemas.

SCREW you @Randomguy.  The poster is an officer with the SPD.  She was injured 3 days ago in a riot.  This did not come from a news link.  It was shared to me from a LEO friend.  It came from her own posting.  It is a first hand account of the events you are trying to whitewash.  If you don't care that LEO are being attacked, fine.  Some of us do care that the people that put their lives on the line every day for our safety are under fire.  Believe the crap you want to watch there in your non-ignorant state but your retort is bullshit.

 

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1 hour ago, Kzoo said:

The poster is an officer with the SPD. 

This seems to be 100% false, and is being passed along and passed off as true by folks who can't be bothered to do even remedial investigation.  Look what RE turned up with a simple facebook search.  Sorry, but your LEO buddy is lazy as fuck and may not be all that smart. 

A little legwork is called for.  I realize that this stuff fits your narrative, but simply because it fits your preconceived notions does not mean it is true or that you can skip out on fact-checking.  Unless you want to be called out, that is.

 

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42 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

The poster is an officer with the SPD.  She was injured 3 days ago in a riot.  This did not come from a news link.  It was shared to me from a LEO friend.  It came from her own posting.  It is a first hand account of the events you are trying to whitewash.

I think that is "vague" at this time, isn't it?  Beyond a short series of posts on FB, the "officer with the SPD" has a pretty clean slate on FB and Google.  Even I, a relative non-poster on FB, have a string of friends, likes, and other detritus from being a real person on FB. Proof? No way! Suspicious? Surely.

34 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

his seems to be 100% false, and is being passed along and passed off as true by folks who can't be bothered to do even remedial investigation.

I don't think 100% false is justifiable, but, it is odd/suspicious/expected?

This mysterious SPD officer surely, though, can be considered a well respected source.

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7 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

I think that is "vague" at this time, isn't it?  Beyond a short series of posts on FB, the "officer with the SPD" has a pretty clean slate on FB and Google.  Even I, a relative non-poster on FB, have a string of friends, likes, and other detritus from being a real person on FB. Proof? No way! Suspicious? Surely.

I don't think 100% false is justifiable, but, it is odd/suspicious/expected?

This mysterious SPD officer surely, though, can be considered a well respected source.

It seems false all the way to me.  LOTS of evidence, and really hard to mistake it.  You pointed it out in your search, but does anyone actually behave that way on bookface?  Plus, do ANY police departments let you post police business about criminal activity with presumably ongoing investigations on your private social media accounts, all with the town police insignia as your cover photo?  I don't think there is a lawyer alive, even a lawyer for police unions, that would let that occur or not have you acknowledge that this is a fireable offense 5 times at least in the employment contract, police manual, town employee manual, etc.   People would have to be damn fools to believe they don't teach you that at the police academy, as well.  Then, as you mentioned, suddenly start posting obviously right wing messaging after not being 'present', and having ZERO friends on facebook and no engagement, it makes no sense whatsover.

So, is it possible that there is a muslim chick right-wing extremist on the Bothell police force that suddenly decided to post massively tilted perspective while shown in uniform, about criminal activity in an ongoing investigation with the Bothell police insignia as her cover photo?  I suppose anything is possible.  Is it probable or even plausible?   Not at all.  I suspect and would wager hacked account, with everything recent being fictitious.  While maybe not 100%, certainly 5 nines at the very least.

And this is all before doing a line-by-line analysis on the obviously false post itself.  Plus (and I mentioned this before) NO online non-extremist mention of what would obviously be a massive story on ANY news site at all.  Anywhere.   You gotta really WANT to believe this stuff to short-circuit any internal bullshit detector you might have.

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1 hour ago, Randomguy said:

 

And this is all before doing a line-by-line analysis on the obviously false post itself.  Plus (and I mentioned this before) NO online non-extremist mention of what would obviously be a massive story on ANY news site at all.  Anywhere.   You gotta really WANT to believe this stuff to short-circuit any internal bullshit detector you might have.

Yeah, like you do a line by line analysis of the crap that you call NYC news?

Your perspective is off.  Don't criticize me for my research when I posted a first hand account of events at a SPD facility and you sit there and soak up left-wing unfiltered crap.  She is an on the street officer, she is a known individual not hiding behind any reporter, she provided a first hand account of events as she saw them and she saw them close enough to end up in an ER.

Just because her in the trenches account ruffles your perspective does nothing to take away from her account.  It only shows your total lack of perspective (the view from on high from the center of one of the non-ignorant states).

 

 

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1 minute ago, Kzoo said:

Don't criticize me for my research when I posted a first hand account of events at a SPD facility

Was there ANY research done? Is it a first hand account?  Are you ignoring RG's counterclaim?  It really is a pretty clear question about the source of your FB post. 

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