Razors Edge ★ Posted August 26, 2020 Share #1 Posted August 26, 2020 ...especially if the only "demonstration" of it's revolutionary design is this crappy video? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F_in Ray Of Sunshine Posted August 26, 2020 Share #2 Posted August 26, 2020 “The contact pins does not move.” That kind of says it all, right there. No word, either of how those big honkin side pins are going to fit in a 12 speed cassette.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted August 26, 2020 Author Share #3 Posted August 26, 2020 2 minutes ago, F_in Ray Of Sunshine said: “The contact pins does not move.” That kind of says it all, right there. No word, either of how those big honkin side pins are going to fit in a 12 speed cassette.... Or who wants to buy a whole new crankset and cassette and figure out how to fit it within an existing frame geometry. Like, where's the working prototype? I've got a dopey video telling me that old chain systems are inefficient (they aren't) and this new system - shown in some CGI BS form - is "better", but only because they say so, since obviously no WORKING version exists nor has one been tested! But, it's the classic BS marketing crap that annoys me. There is friction in a chain system, but it all depends on the relative amount vs the real amount. In other words, if the new system is 10% or 50% more efficient, that sounds insanely great (relatively), but if that savings is against a negligible loss - say "normal" chain has one watt of friction penalty, so the new chain is only a 0.5 watt of penalty - then WHO REALLY CARES??? Especially if it is heavier, more complicated, costlier, uglier, has greater aero drag, or whatever???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrapr ★ Posted August 26, 2020 Share #4 Posted August 26, 2020 So the "regular" system has high frictional losses. But the new & improved double engagement chain doesn't have 2x the frictional losses must be new math 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F_in Ray Of Sunshine Posted August 26, 2020 Share #5 Posted August 26, 2020 3 minutes ago, Razors Edge said: "normal" chain has one watt of friction penalty, so the new chain is only a 0.5 watt of penalty Be damned careful what you say here.... Invoke the "W" word three times and You -Know-Who will appear, like BeetleJuice.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkpow Posted August 26, 2020 Share #6 Posted August 26, 2020 Since when does the gear rotate around the chain pin? (Asking for jsharr.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Further Posted August 26, 2020 Share #7 Posted August 26, 2020 If the chain is gripping both sides of the tooth that would mean one side is pulling and the other side is pushing, ever try to push a chain ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F_in Ray Of Sunshine Posted August 26, 2020 Share #8 Posted August 26, 2020 Just now, donkpow said: Since when does the gear rotate around the chain pin? (Asking for jsharr.) It's part of the new Cam Drive they'll be marketing next month 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F_in Ray Of Sunshine Posted August 26, 2020 Share #9 Posted August 26, 2020 Just now, Further said: ever try to push a chain Works about as well as pushing a rope, so there is that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkpow Posted August 26, 2020 Share #10 Posted August 26, 2020 The trailing pin aligns the leading pin to the gear tooth. Otherwise there would be slap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F_in Ray Of Sunshine Posted August 26, 2020 Share #11 Posted August 26, 2020 1 minute ago, donkpow said: The trailing pin aligns the leading pin to the gear tooth. Otherwise there would be slap. Well, you're at least partially right -somebody should be slapped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkpow Posted August 26, 2020 Share #12 Posted August 26, 2020 Just now, F_in Ray Of Sunshine said: Well, you're at least partially right -somebody should be slapped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyr Posted August 26, 2020 Share #13 Posted August 26, 2020 If I need another .5 w-word when I ride, I will just not have an ice cream sandwich after supper and have an apple instead. It is like when the guy at the bike shop tries to upsell me new lighter pedals so I can save 60 grams. I just say "Dude, 60 grams? I am 20 lbs overweight." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted August 26, 2020 Author Share #14 Posted August 26, 2020 Just now, Zephyr said: If I need another .5 w-word when I ride, I will just not have an ice cream sandwich after supper and have an apple instead. It is like when the guy at the bike shop tries to upsell me new lighter pedals so I can save 60 grams. I just say "Dude, 60 grams? I am 20 lbs overweight." Marginal gains (and doping) win TOURS!!!!! I made up the .5 watt, but it is actually not a bad one when you consider how little is actually lost in the bicycle drivetrain due to friction. I'm always amazed at the TT/Tri/aero folks who seem to not actually grasp the whole concept of when and how to effectively use their sleek machines. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkpow Posted August 26, 2020 Share #15 Posted August 26, 2020 21 minutes ago, Razors Edge said: consider how little is actually lost in the bicycle drivetrain due to friction. There was all kinds of study on that. This type of drivetrain is almost equivalent to direct drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Wheels Posted August 26, 2020 Share #16 Posted August 26, 2020 32 minutes ago, Zephyr said: I am 20 lbs overweight. 20? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted August 26, 2020 Author Share #17 Posted August 26, 2020 3 minutes ago, donkpow said: There was all kinds of study on that. This type of drivetrain is almost equivalent to direct drive. Your links to those studies didn't work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F_in Ray Of Sunshine Posted August 26, 2020 Share #18 Posted August 26, 2020 24 minutes ago, Razors Edge said: I'm always amazed at the TT/Tri/aero folks Like the woman around here who always is on her aero bars - even when climbing..... ...and wears loose, flappy clothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F_in Ray Of Sunshine Posted August 26, 2020 Share #19 Posted August 26, 2020 1 minute ago, Razors Edge said: You links to those studies didn't work ....because they’re not Dual DriveTM links ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted August 26, 2020 Author Share #20 Posted August 26, 2020 Just now, F_in Ray Of Sunshine said: Like the woman around here who always is on her aero bars - even when climbing..... ...and wears loose, flappy clothing? I pass her and her husband regularly. I always want to ask if they want some friendly advice, but by the time I start to get the words out they are like 100' behind me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisL Posted August 26, 2020 Share #21 Posted August 26, 2020 Have you guys seen the 2 gear rear hubs that are used in conjunction with a cassette? 22 gears but with a single chainring & no front der. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkpow Posted August 26, 2020 Share #22 Posted August 26, 2020 5 minutes ago, Razors Edge said: Your links to those studies didn't work Oh come on! The next thing is you want me to prove to you I know what I am talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F_in Ray Of Sunshine Posted August 26, 2020 Share #23 Posted August 26, 2020 12 minutes ago, Razors Edge said: I pass her and her husband regularly. This one is progressing. She still doesn’t wear a helmet, but she’s at least ditched the headphones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyr Posted August 26, 2020 Share #24 Posted August 26, 2020 1 hour ago, Square Wheels said: 20? Wow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted August 26, 2020 Author Share #25 Posted August 26, 2020 14 minutes ago, Zephyr said: Wow Calling you fat in front of the whole Cafe!!!!! He knows you own guns and can use them, doesn't he??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyr Posted August 26, 2020 Share #26 Posted August 26, 2020 11 minutes ago, Razors Edge said: Calling you fat in front of the whole Cafe!!!!! He knows you own guns and can use them, doesn't he??? I thought him and I had a 'thing' going, but that was just hurtful. And he knows I sent him my gun in the mail to deal with all the crazy Bostonians Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Wheels Posted August 26, 2020 Share #27 Posted August 26, 2020 29 minutes ago, Zephyr said: I thought him and I had a 'thing' going, but that was just hurtful. And he knows I sent him my gun in the mail to deal with all the crazy Bostonians I'd be happy to be 20 over. I weighed 207 this morning. Dream weight is 170. I'm fat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted August 26, 2020 Author Share #28 Posted August 26, 2020 2 minutes ago, Square Wheels said: I'd be happy to be 20 over. I weighed 207 this morning. Dream weight is 170. I'm fat. Are you 6'2"??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Wheels Posted August 26, 2020 Share #29 Posted August 26, 2020 12 minutes ago, Razors Edge said: Are you 6'2"??? Good point, I'm not overweight, I'm undertall. I used to be 5'10", seems I'm more like 5'9" now. 170 would be a good weight. I eat too much, and too much crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted August 27, 2020 Author Share #30 Posted August 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, Square Wheels said: Good point, I'm not overweight, I'm undertall. I used to be 5'10", seems I'm more like 5'9" now. 170 would be a good weight. I eat too much, and too much crap. 145. That way you can do Mt Washington with an insane power-to-weight ratio! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Wheels Posted August 27, 2020 Share #31 Posted August 27, 2020 Just now, Razors Edge said: 145. That way you can do Mt Washington with an insane power-to-weight ratio! I'm big boned. In high school I had a perfectly flat stomach, no extra fat, and weight 167. I admire people like you that can regulate their weight and eating. I've been depressed most of my life, it causes a lot of bad eating choices. I'll get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted August 27, 2020 Author Share #32 Posted August 27, 2020 1 minute ago, Square Wheels said: I admire people like you that can regulate their weight and eating. Ha! I regulate by eating whatever I can find to eat! I find coffee and chocolate are superfoods! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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