The West is on fire

[Dottleshead ★]

5 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

The marriage didn't make it through the flames.  

Symbolic.  

[Dottleshead ★]

This fire -- basically in the middle of suburbia -- has now tripled in size. It's kind of surreal.

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/sumner-grade-fire-triples-size-forces-more-evacuations/EL2QD4CQMJCYVKMJD7IZAQJAFQ/

[ChrisL]

Smoke from fires to our East. Normally the wind would be blowing it towards AZ & NV but it’s blowing to the West now.

[Guest]

Myself and one of the guys that works for me were just asked if we wanted to go on a crew to CA. I would like to but have to pass. The OT is crazy but instead of a two week stint, this could possibly be four weeks. He will likely go. 

[Dottleshead ★]

https://www.q13fox.com/news/resources-extremely-taxed-as-crews-battle-sumner-grade-fire

[Dottleshead ★]

Look at this crap.  Thanks a lot California and @Page Turner.  We have enough fires and smoke up here, thank you.  The whole state is on warning.  This is the jest stream of fire smoke coming up from Cali.  We won't be in the clear until Monday.  

 

Purple bad.

 

[Page Turner]

...California is always doing shit like this.  We dump our detritus over the borders on a regular basis.  You should build a wall.

[Page Turner]

On 9/9/2020 at 7:26 AM, Dirtyhip said:

My cousin and I talked on the phone yesterday,  

He lives in Chico.  He has lived and worked in smoke all summer.  He wears a dual canister dust mask.  My cabinets might be made by him if I can afford that cab place.  All handmade stuff.    Anyway, he was having an anxiety attack, as he kids were evacuated from their home in Talent.  He felt helpless from where he was at.   was not sure if they were coming to my house or not.  In the end they fled to an area south of Umpqua to her family place.  This is after their home burned down in Paradise.  He is one of the displaced from that event.  He lives with his family and she is in Medford.  The marriage didn't make it through the flames.  

This is Western life.

...looks like Paradise is right on the cusp of the Bear fire right now, so depending on whether we get another big wind event in the next week or so, both it and Oroville are on the evacuation lists. I can't imagine what it would be like to rebuild there, and now be looking at this over in the river canyon.  That's just grim.  

[Razors Edge ★]

3 minutes ago, Page Turner said:

...California is always doing shit like this.  We dump our detritus over the borders on a regular basis.  You should build a wall.

I'm still trying to figure out how your S&R teams determine what & when to charge all the irresponsible folks out there.  And is it "pay before we airlift you" or just a bill sent later on?

[Page Turner]

On 9/9/2020 at 12:02 PM, Zackny said:

Myself and one of the guys that works for me were just asked if we wanted to go on a crew to CA. I would like to but have to pass. The OT is crazy but instead of a two week stint, this could possibly be four weeks. He will likely go. 

...you ain't missing much.  They got a crew of about 14 guys burned over down near Big Sur a couple of days back, They were trying to protect their fire station, if you can believe that.  I'm pretty happy to be retired.  A couple off these fires are "Just Get The Hell Out of the Way !!!" events...like the Creek fire up out of Fresno and the Bear fire up near Oroville.  The clouds of smoke from them are up into the 40, 000 foot levels, which is insane.

 

Never been so glad to be retired in my life.

[Dottleshead ★]

9 minutes ago, Page Turner said:

The clouds of smoke from them are up into the 40, 000 foot levels, which is insane.

Yeah, we know.

[Page Turner]

5 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

I'm still trying to figure out how your S&R teams determine what & when to charge all the irresponsible folks out there.  And is it "pay before we airlift you" or just a bill sent later on?

...that situation up on the forks of the San Joaquin was nuts.  It's one of the most popular areas to hike into the Muir Wilderness area, and I used to spend a lot of time in there myself in the summer and fall, in the area around Mono Hot Springs and Edison Lake.  The whole area from Shaver lake on up is a wildly popular summer resort area, with a lot of summer cabins that have been owned by families for generations. When not using them themselves, they rent them out.

There are roads that go waaay back into the Sierra, so you can drive in pretty far away from civilization before you start walking. Kaiser Pass road is one.  But it is a long slow drive, some of it is single lane, and much of it either poorly paved or kind of potholed.  Great views as you drive along for an hour ...not so great when it's all on fire.

 

That fire was explosive in growth, and it's kind of miraculous there were not more people killed back in there.

 

 

[Razors Edge ★]

1 minute ago, Page Turner said:

That fire was explosive in growth, and it's kind of miraculous there were not more people killed back in there.

Surely the wildfires made the news out there and past history of the area warrants careful consideration before hiking or camping in that area let alone building or rebuilding, correct?

[Dottleshead ★]

16 minutes ago, Page Turner said:

...that situation up on the forks of the San Joaquin was nuts.  It's one of the most popular areas to hike into the Muir Wilderness area, and I used to spend a lot of time in there myself in the summer and fall, in the area around Mono Hot Springs and Edison Lake.  The whole area from Shaver lake on up is a wildly popular summer resort area, with a lot of summer cabins that have been owned by families for generations. When not using them themselves, they rent them out.

There are roads that go waaay back into the Sierra, so you can drive in pretty far away from civilization before you start walking. Kaiser Pass road is one.  But it is a long slow drive, some of it is single lane, and much of it either poorly paved or kind of potholed.  Great views as you drive along for an hour ...not so great when it's all on fire.

 

That fire was explosive in growth, and it's kind of miraculous there were not more people killed back in there.

 

 

That's some serious effed up chit.  That's a gas bomb they drove through there. Of course, probably not a lot of options.

[sheep_herder ★]

12 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Surely the wildfires made the news out there and past history of the area warrants careful consideration before hiking or camping in that area let alone building or rebuilding, correct?

Folks will continue to build in these and other forested areas. When they are not using the facilities, they can rent them out to 'rich' folks like you. People really do like to get away from it all. Not sure what the fire history is in this particular area, but fire in the chaparral areas is fairly frequent.

[Dottleshead ★]

Just now, sheep_herder said:

...they can rent them out to 'rich' folks like you.

Botta-bing!!

[Razors Edge ★]

18 minutes ago, sheep_herder said:

Folks will continue to build in these and other forested areas. When they are not using the facilities, they can rent them out to 'rich' folks like you. People really do like to get away from it all. Not sure what the fire history is in this particular area, but fire in the chaparral areas is fairly frequent.

I'm just waiting for the folks who thought your article on the "unprepared" MTBers and hikers showed poor behavior, but oddly rebuilding (and LIVING) in fire prone country and hiking and camping during an active and well publicized fire season  are not warranted as poor behavior in the same vein. 

[Dottleshead ★]

I see two fires near @Dirtyhip.  The Two Four Two fire and the Grizzly Creek fire.

[Razors Edge ★]

1 minute ago, Dottles said:

I see two fires near @Dirtyhip.  The Two Four Two fire and the Grizzly Creek fire.

You have really good eyes!

[jsharr ★]

On 9/8/2020 at 7:58 PM, dennis said:

Tue, Sept 1

Sunday, Sept 6

 

Matthew 17:20? 

[Dottleshead ★]

2 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

You have really good eyes!

You too can have good eyes:

https://ktvz.com/news/2020/09/10/fire-alert-interactive-map-of-major-northwest-fires-links-to-more-maps-info/

[Dottleshead ★]

1 minute ago, jsharr said:

Matthew 17:20? 

Matthew 17:20 (NIV) - He replied, “Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.”

 

I don't get it.

[jsharr ★]

4 minutes ago, Dottles said:

Matthew 17:20 (NIV) - He replied, “Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.”

 

I don't get it.

mountain is gone in the second pic.....

[Mr. Silly]

13 minutes ago, jsharr said:

mountain is gone in the second pic.....

Where'd you put it?

[jsharr ★]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Grumpy said:

Where'd you put it?

behind the mustard in the fridge.

[Dottleshead ★]

29 minutes ago, Dottles said:

Matthew 17:20 (NIV) - He replied, “Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.”

 

I don't get it.

 

24 minutes ago, jsharr said:

mountain is gone in the second pic.....

I get it!

[jsharr ★]

3 minutes ago, Dottles said:

 

I get it!

[Randomguy]

On 9/8/2020 at 12:53 PM, Dottles said:

And we haven't even hit the window when the season really gets bad.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/08/us/wildfires-live-updates.html

I consider this fake news, because I am not in the west and don't see it on a daily basis.  The environment is fine.

[Randomguy]

On 9/8/2020 at 1:03 PM, Longjohn said:

When isn’t the west on fire?

True, it always seems to be.  At least in the last 10 - 15 years or so.  There was one massive fire when I lived in San Diego that really sucked, the air was miserable for at least a week, and you couldn't see very far and soot covered everything.

The sunsets were fantastic, though, so that is what was most worth focusing on.

[Dottleshead ★]

2 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

I consider this fake news, because I am not in the west and don't see it on a daily basis.  The environment is fine.

POTD.

[Page Turner]

1 hour ago, Razors Edge said:

Surely the wildfires made the news out there and past history of the area warrants careful consideration before hiking or camping in that area let alone building or rebuilding, correct?

...with respect to hiking or camping, those people were in there with no hint of any sort of fire or official warning other than the routine "no fires in the back country" rules.  

The only alternative to this sort of explosive, overnight growth from wildfires here would be to close all the National Forests completely...which they have now done in the past couple of days. That fire went to a quarter million acres overnight.  There's not much you can do to responsibly prepare for an event like that.

 

 

With respect to rebuilding, my guess would be that the insurance industry and their pricing structures will be the thing that has some impact.  Building codes and rules on the use of building materials would go a long way in helping, but the construction industry and the public's personal tastes for wood frame construction will probably prevent anything meaningful in that arena.

[Page Turner]

1 hour ago, Razors Edge said:

I'm just waiting for the folks who thought your article on the "unprepared" MTBers and hikers showed poor behavior, but oddly rebuilding (and LIVING) in fire prone country and hiking and camping during an active and well publicized fire season  are not warranted as poor behavior in the same vein. 

...I guess you still don't get it.  The fire season here is approximately 2 full months longer now than when I moved here in the early 80's.

Short of closing the national forests and back country entirely from about early July through late October when the first significant rains usually come, there's no good solution for the campers and hikers in places like this. So you can pretty much say goodbye to anyone hiking the Pacific Crest trail, because there isn't enough time to do it between the spring thaw and the beginning of July.  And the majority of the current fires were started  by the dry lightning storms back in late August.

[Razors Edge ★]

Just now, Page Turner said:

..I guess you still don't get it. 

So, you understand it, yet you aren't clamoring for the S&R teams to charge the folks being rescued.  What makes it different than the folks caught out in a snow storm?

[Dottleshead ★]

1 minute ago, Page Turner said:

...I guess you still don't get it.  The fire season here is approximately 2 full months longer now than when I moved here in the early 80's.

Short of closing the national forests and back country entirely from about early July through late October when the first significant rains usually come, there's no good solution for the campers and hikers in places like this. So you can pretty much say goodbye to anyone hiking the Pacific Crest trail, because there isn't enough time to do it between the spring thaw and the beginning of July.  And the majority of the current fires were started  by the dry lightning storms back in late August.

Let me tell you this whole environment thing is inconvenient.  Can we just go in there and cut down all the gawd damn trees already?  

[ChrisL]

1 minute ago, Dottles said:

Let me tell you this whole environment thing is inconvenient.  Can we just go in there and cut down all the gawd damn trees already?  

I think @sheep_herder commented on it earlier but SoCal fires are mostly scrub brush and fire tolerant trees.  Yes it’s an issue when developments are built in fire prone areas but within a couple of years you can’t even tell there was a fire.

Im sure it’s worse up your way though.

[Randomguy]

3 minutes ago, Dottles said:

Let me tell you this whole environment thing is inconvenient.  Can we just go in there and cut down all the gawd damn trees already?  

This does make sense.  Alternately, we unleash millions of goats in the west to eat whatever vegetation they like in the forests.  This will cause no additional problems.

[Dottleshead ★]

Just now, ChrisL said:

I think @sheep_herder commented on it earlier but SoCal fires are mostly scrub brush and fire tolerant trees.  Yes it’s an issue when developments are built in fire prone areas but within a couple of years you can’t even tell there was a fire.

Im sure it’s worse up your way though.

Yeah we get our share of scrub and grass fires too but far less than the forest fires.

[Dottleshead ★]

2 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

This does make sense.  Alternately, we unleash millions of goats in the west to eat whatever vegetation they like in the forests.  This will cause no additional problems.

Goat poop?

[Randomguy]

2 minutes ago, Dottles said:

Goat poop?

Known fire-retardant  

[Razors Edge ★]

2 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

Known fire-retardant  

Why not wild pigs instead? Then you have a ready source of bacon for everyone!

[MickinMD ★]

On last night's TV news, they said 3 out of every 16 homes in all of California is under potential fire threat.

WOW!

[Page Turner]

48 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

So, you understand it, yet you aren't clamoring for the S&R teams to charge the folks being rescued.  What makes it different than the folks caught out in a snow storm?

...where and when are these people caught in this hypothetical snowstorm ?  What was the weather forecast ? Why was it snowing in early September ?

[Kzoo]

1 hour ago, Page Turner said:

With respect to rebuilding, my guess would be that the insurance industry and their pricing structures will be the thing that has some impact.  Building codes and rules on the use of building materials would go a long way in helping, but the construction industry and the public's personal tastes for wood frame construction will probably prevent anything meaningful in that arena.

This Old House did a series this year on rebuilding Paradise.  The part on changes in building code from material to construction techniques to landscape techniques was really informative. 

[sheep_herder ★]

21 minutes ago, Page Turner said:

...where and when are these people caught in this hypothetical snowstorm ?  What was the weather forecast ? Why was it snowing in early September ?

Last week in Montana.

[Razors Edge ★]

7 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

This Old House did a series this year on rebuilding Paradise.  The part on changes in building code from material to construction techniques to landscape techniques was really informative. 

That has been pretty interesting, and they definitely show there are a variety of ways to build a bit more safely in these areas.  The example of the sparks on the roof was pretty neat.  It makes no sense not to have highly fire resistant roofing on all homes as mandatory in that neck of the woods.

[Kzoo]

18 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

That has been pretty interesting, and they definitely show there are a variety of ways to build a bit more safely in these areas.  The example of the sparks on the roof was pretty neat.  It makes no sense not to have highly fire resistant roofing on all homes as mandatory in that neck of the woods.

And the ventilation covers...

[Dottleshead ★]

 

 

Chit's getting real.

[Dottleshead ★]

 

[Dottleshead ★]

Lloyd Dean Holland, a Vietnam veteran, barely escaped his home in Estacada on Tuesday night. He left his rental house as flames exploded in cedar trees around him. He said his sole remaining possessions — his dog, rifles, dentures and some clothing — were all in the truck he used to flee.

“I’ve been through hell and high water but nothing like this. I’ve been shot down and shot at but this — last night — I’m still not over it,” Holland said.

 

https://www.heraldnet.com/northwest/fires-without-precedent-rage-in-usually-cool-wet-northwest/

[Page Turner]

29 minutes ago, sheep_herder said:

Last week in Montana.

  ....you know what I mean.  Nobody required rescue from anything except the surprise of an early blast of winter.  And maybe a little bit of remorse that it only just stopped snowing there three weeks ago.