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What advice do you have for my students? How is computer-based work best managed? 

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25 minutes ago, roadsue said:

What advice do you have for my students? How is computer-based work best managed? 

Are you students gonna be in front of a screen for 8 hours?  Ouch.  I thought on-line school was a couple hours a day. 

It would be nice if the software came with a way to track student's attention and time/interaction in the course.  My feeling is most kids will be easily distracted :( especially with no direct supervision.

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There is always the traditional 20-20-20 rule  designed to prevent eye strain

Quote

Basically, every 20 minutes spent using a screen, you should try to look away at something that is 20 feet away from you for a total of 20 seconds.

I also come visit the Forum every so often to break up work, but you probably don't want to suggest that.

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22 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Are you students gonna be in front of a screen for 8 hours?  Ouch.  I thought on-line school was a couple hours a day. 

It would be nice if the software came with a way to track student's attention and time/interaction in the course.  My feeling is most kids will be easily distracted :( especially with no direct supervision.

Oldest son's experience was that students phone was silenced but held just out of sight of the screen with an active game on it.  My advice Sue, learned from him, is to keep the students engaged with conversation and questions to answer.

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1 minute ago, maddmaxx said:

Oldest son's experience was that students phone was silenced but held just out of sight of the screen with an active game on it.

I'd say his experience is pretty much the norm.  :(  Parents can supervise, but that is insanely time intensive.  No easy situation for probably the 75%+ of kids who aren't self-motivated in schoolrooms, so even worse when out of the schoolroom.

5 minutes ago, Kirby said:

There is always the traditional 20-20-20 rule  designed to prevent eye strain

I also come visit the Forum every so often to break up work, but you probably don't want to suggest that.

I think this is good advice and should be BUILT IN to the teacher's presentation.  Set a timer for 20 mins, and the teacher stops and has all the kids do the 20-20 thing. And stand up, stretch, and restart.

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4 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

Are you students gonna be in front of a screen for 8 hours?  Ouch.  I thought on-line school was a couple hours a day. 

It would be nice if the software came with a way to track student's attention and time/interaction in the course.  My feeling is most kids will be easily distracted :( especially with no direct supervision.

It’s 6.5 hours a day total with built in breaks between classes, mid-morning and lunch. Half the time is synchronous, all-in remote meeting. The other half is asynchronous learning tasks to allow for flexible learning times, accommodate family WiFi use, etc. They’re good about taking breaks from the screen, but the majority of the work is still digital even if on their own time. We don’t exchange physical papers or other materials.

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4 hours ago, maddmaxx said:

Oldest son's experience was that students phone was silenced but held just out of sight of the screen with an active game on it.  My advice Sue, learned from him, is to keep the students engaged with conversation and questions to answer.

My gamer students clearly play on their home computers while logged into remote Meet. They wear headsets, have the rumble chairs...I can see the game flashing in their eyeglasses. What they lack in motivation their parents make up with economic privilege. I don’t worry about their long-term flourishing since mom seems content to nurture them like a humanoid house plant.

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Find a good forum full of time wasting drivel to procrastinate on.

Shove 8 hours of work into one or two hours of sloppy frenzy.

Accept that mediocre is OK.

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44 minutes ago, jsharr said:

Find a good forum full of time wasting drivel to procrastinate on.

Shove 8 hours of work into one or two hours of sloppy frenzy.

Accept that mediocre is OK.

 
 

Who would do that?

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1 hour ago, roadsue said:

My gamer students clearly play on their home computers while logged into remote Meet. They wear headsets, have the rumble chairs...I can see the game flashing in their eyeglasses. What they lack in motivation their parents make up with economic privilege. I don’t worry about their long-term flourishing since mom seems content to nurture them like a humanoid house plant.

You can only do your best to keep them motivated.  Teaching remotely is an entirely different skill set.  Perhaps someday we will teach our teachers that one too.

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7 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

Are you students gonna be in front of a screen for 8 hours?  Ouch.  I thought on-line school was a couple hours a day. 

It would be nice if the software came with a way to track student's attention and time/interaction in the course.  My feeling is most kids will be easily distracted :( especially with no direct supervision.

Look the only education they need is Jesus. I thought you knew that?

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3 hours ago, maddmaxx said:

You can only do your best to keep them motivated.  Teaching remotely is an entirely different skill set.  Perhaps someday we will teach our teachers that one too.

I know how to leverage tech for learning. The students I’m talking about have all their needs met and parents who support their gaming careers.

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14 minutes ago, roadsue said:

I know how to leverage tech for learning. The students I’m talking about have all their needs met and parents who support their gaming careers.

Maybe turn the question on a gamer ...and ask them to explain the value of their game to the lesson that you're teaching to everyone else. How old are they?  

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13 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

Maybe turn the question on a gamer ...and ask them to explain the value of their game to the lesson that you're teaching to everyone else. How old are they?  

15. And ready to embark on a lucrative E-sports career. 

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My question is not really about convincing highly competitive gamers with the full support of their very wealthy parents that school is meaningful. 
It’s about helping students who are doing their best to attend fully to manage the sudden increase in screen time. 

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I need time away to be able to focus.  I have a built-in safety mechanism.  The longest I can go without peeing is an hour, often much shorter.  I am in and out of my office at least a dozen times a day.  Frequent breaks help keep me sharp.

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We had good success in the spring with short, recorded lessons. By short, I mean 5-7 minutes, tops. The videos were like homework. (It's all homework now.) Class time was for questions or in-depth examples.  For each class, students were having about 10-15 of screen time during a 45 minute class. They did about the same amount of work. We just gave our progress monitoring assessment and, believe or not, most students improved from their winter test last year.

I had a teacher who wanted to continue with his 45 minute lecture every day. That did not work at all.

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2 hours ago, roadsue said:

My question is not really about convincing highly competitive gamers with the full support of their very wealthy parents that school is meaningful. 
It’s about helping students who are doing their best to attend fully to manage the sudden increase in screen time. 

...I would think an occasional break to watch online porn would be a good thing in this circumstance.

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2 hours ago, Square Wheels said:

I need time away to be able to focus.  I have a built-in safety mechanism.  The longest I can go without peeing is an hour, often much shorter.  I am in and out of my office at least a dozen times a day.  Frequent breaks help keep me sharp.

...I feel the same way about online porn. :)

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....seriously, though. can you spend that much screen time and not have it affect your physiology and well being ?

Just asking, because it seems to me it would turn that person into some sort of alien life form. My suggestion below.

 

computer rage GIF

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2 hours ago, Forum Administrator said:

. (It's all homework now.)

And all digital using shared google docs, slides, jamboard. The ELA dept is talking e-books instead of distributing hard copies. I keep them in person via Meet and breakout rooms for half an hour, usually with another app in play, like Kahoot! or Menti-meter. Questions to earn a Q-reader code to unlock the source for the next question. After 30 minutes, they’re on their own to continue the reading and composition work. Some take care if it right away, others wait until night. They say they’d rather be outdoors during the day and reading at night. However they manage it, it’s an increase in computer screen time. Added to their already excessive use of cell phones, they need advice. 

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1 hour ago, Page Turner said:

...I would think an occasional break to watch online porn would be a good thing in this circumstance.

Like most things, excess leads to disinterest. When everyone and everything is online, porn  online is hardly worth the fee.

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6 hours ago, roadsue said:

And all digital using shared google docs, slides, jamboard. The ELA dept is talking e-books instead of distributing hard copies. I keep them in person via Meet and breakout rooms for half an hour, usually with another app in play, like Kahoot! or Menti-meter. Questions to earn a Q-reader code to unlock the source for the next question. After 30 minutes, they’re on their own to continue the reading and composition work. Some take care if it right away, others wait until night. They say they’d rather be outdoors during the day and reading at night. However they manage it, it’s an increase in computer screen time. Added to their already excessive use of cell phones, they need advice. 

I'm not sure of the ages of your students but womaxx's high school is discovering that some students have been hired for daytime part time jobs.  One parent when questioned said "If he can't go to school then he damn well will get a job".  This indicates the attitudes of some in the community towards online learning.  The school, and the state hold the attitude that school hours are school hours and part time day jobs during school hours are illegal.

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1 hour ago, maddmaxx said:

I'm not sure of the ages of your students but womaxx's high school is discovering that some students have been hired for daytime part time jobs.  One parent when questioned said "If he can't go to school then he damn well will get a job".  This indicates the attitudes of some in the community towards online learning.  The school, and the state hold the attitude that school hours are school hours and part time day jobs during school hours are illegal.

Haven't they ever heard of people going to night school? I detested night classes when going to college, but some like them. The important thing is whether they get the work done. It is a different thing, if there is a set time to interact with the instructor. Too many folks cannot except change.

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2 hours ago, maddmaxx said:

I'm not sure of the ages of your students but womaxx's high school is discovering that some students have been hired for daytime part time jobs.  One parent when questioned said "If he can't go to school then he damn well will get a job".  This indicates the attitudes of some in the community towards online learning.  The school, and the state hold the attitude that school hours are school hours and part time day jobs during school hours are illegal.

One of my students last semester went to day shifts after the smoothie place she worked for opened for drive through service. She would login to class on her phone from work or in her car, let me know she was doing ok, then log off and take care of her assignments at night. 

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1 hour ago, sheep_herder said:

Haven't they ever heard of people going to night school? I detested night classes when going to college, but some like them. The important thing is whether they get the work done. It is a different thing, if there is a set time to interact with the instructor. Too many folks cannot except change.

“En loco parentis” doesn’t make much sense when the students are still at home, but during school hours. I can see parents sitting at a desk or table behind their student on the couch. I have a hard time believing I’m in the place of someone who is in the same room. 

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1.  Get up from the computer every now and then.  Walk around.  Put a stethoscope on someone's chest.  Stick a big needle in them.  

2.  Use different chairs. Big workout ball. traditional chair, couch, switch it up.  

3. Every 10 minutes make a conscious effort to drop your shoulders, roll your neck and breath out.

4.  Keep your porn hub in a different browser so you can just alt/tab back and forth quickly if someone walks in.  

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On 9/15/2020 at 7:36 AM, roadsue said:

What advice do you have for my students? How is computer-based work best managed? 

 

11 hours ago, roadsue said:

And all digital using shared google docs, slides, jamboard. The ELA dept is talking e-books instead of distributing hard copies. I keep them in person via Meet and breakout rooms for half an hour, usually with another app in play, like Kahoot! or Menti-meter. Questions to earn a Q-reader code to unlock the source for the next question. After 30 minutes, they’re on their own to continue the reading and composition work. Some take care if it right away, others wait until night. They say they’d rather be outdoors during the day and reading at night. However they manage it, it’s an increase in computer screen time. Added to their already excessive use of cell phones, they need advice. 

Seems like you got your advice....   

When I worked, as long as our department make our goals, it didn't matter much to me about how much screen time was during the day or night.   We all have are own 'style' of living and learning.   I knew who would get the task done in record time, and who would be almost always late.  They got rewarded (or not) at review time. 

From discussions I've had with friends who teach (elementary school) it's nearly impossible to hold back (or fail) just about any student.  So just about everyone gets a passing grade regardless of performance.  So there is no reason for many to work at school work.  Of course the few who will get the task done in record time, will still do that.  Recently I've been reading were pass/fail (if they do indeed can fail) is becoming the new normal for grades.  I'd suggest that's a bigger problem than how students deal with 'screen time'.  Maybe... I'm too removed from teaching... but that just seems like a problem to me.

As long as your students goals (grades) are being achieved does it matter how (as long as they are not cheating, or their parents are dong the work) how they got their results?

Some day.... the parents of the gamers will find out they still get to nurture their children at home and when the child is 30, they may wish they made different choices about how they pampered their children. 

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6 hours ago, Bikeguy said:

Some day.... the parents of the gamers will find out they still get to nurture their children at home and when the child is 30, they may wish they made different choices about how they pampered their children. 

I wonder. Prize money for competitive gamers is a jackpot, and the ones with their own YouTube channels make big figures from sponsors. #2 son likes to watch gamers on YouTube. 

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1 minute ago, roadsue said:

I wonder. Prize money for competitive gamers is a jackpot, and the ones with their own YouTube channels make big figures from sponsors. #2 son likes to watch gamers on YouTube. 

Just like every kid wanted to be a professional _______  (basketball, football, baseball, and maybe hockey too) player. 

Sure some will make it rich....  most won't.   And then what happens?     I hope the parents have a big basement.  

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8 hours ago, Bikeguy said:

 

Sure some will make it rich....  most won't.   And then what happens?   

...this is why they need a backup plan to be a social influencer,  in case the pro gaming thing doesn't work out.

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22 hours ago, sheep_herder said:

Haven't they ever heard of people going to night school? I detested night classes when going to college, but some like them. The important thing is whether they get the work done. It is a different thing, if there is a set time to interact with the instructor. Too many folks cannot except change.

The attitude that I see being expressed is that online school is not real school so the kids can get out and get a job.  The concept of working papers and state labor laws about school hours and what sorts of jobs the children can have is for the protection of sub 18 year old children and has little to do with what college students and adults can do.  The resulting problem is that the students end up not completing the work after "work", do not get credit for the class and do not advance to the next grade resulting in parents accompanied by lawyers arriving at the school to attempt to lay the blame on the school staff and administration.

You don't pretend to be doing a 6 1/2 hour school day by rushing through your lessons in an hour in the evening so you can pay for your shoes.

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Of course, you have to vary things to keep students engaged alternating things like kinesthetic (hands on), auditory, visual and reading/writing stimulus so you address the learning strengths of all students.  The younger or less academic they are, kinesthetic learning becomes more important though it's necessary at all ages.

Since, for the most part, computer learning means it's harder to do kinesthetic stuff.  There still are things where you move stuff around on screen by a cursor or have the parents do stuff like buy seeds to do a seed growing experiment to supplement on-screen learning.  The rest is just integrating and varying those learning styles as well as applying the five Dimensions of Learning as appropriate.

Here's one I'd do with elementary science students that I did with my nephew Ryan where I researched I got the fastest germinating seeds I could find so the progress could me measured and reported over a week or so.  The students wouldn't need to post a video on Youtube, but make data reports - including some integrated into online class time - or maybe pictures.  Similar kinesthetic stuff can be found in every subject.

 

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I’m going to suggest seed sprouting for the next “learn by doing” . My sophomores are all over that kind of stuff. I’ve got one doing a sleep study. Her claim is that she should get to sleep for as long as she wants. She’s in the fact gathering stage of the process for the next week. I’m looking forward to seeing her data.
 

You can always tell a 15 year old, but you can’t tell them much. 

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14 minutes ago, roadsue said:

I’m going to suggest seed sprouting for the next “learn by doing” . My sophomores are all over that kind of stuff. I’ve got one doing a sleep study. Her claim is that she should get to sleep for as long as she wants. She’s in the fact gathering stage of the process for the next week. I’m looking forward to seeing her data.
 

You can always tell a 15 year old, but you can’t tell them much. 

The students at womaxx's school have actually converted a piece of the lawn in front of the cafe into a garden plot and they grow and donate various vegetables to the local food bank.  I'm not sure how that's going to work in the hybrid system the school is using now, but they did keep it going all spring and summer while school was out.  Projects that you can get the kids interested in should be great.

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1 hour ago, roadsue said:

I’m going to suggest seed sprouting for the next “learn by doing” . My sophomores are all over that kind of stuff. I’ve got one doing a sleep study. Her claim is that she should get to sleep for as long as she wants. She’s in the fact gathering stage of the process for the next week. I’m looking forward to seeing her data.
 

You can always tell a 15 year old, but you can’t tell them much. 

When I had student teachers, usually seniors at the U of Maryland, or a first year teacher that a senior aide told me was sobbing in their department's planning room, I would tell them to remember that "Teenagers have brain damage."

I think you have to have to view their behaviors in terms of "you can’t tell them much" or they have "brain damage" if you're going to enjoy teaching them and get anything across to them. They're kids - even those who look like the next Miss America.  They're still kids.

I told the new or student teachers to be very strict (actually I said "Be a son of a bitch"), make sure you have a short set of rules (preferably no more than 3) for classroom behavior and not give an inch the first couple of weeks of school in terms of forgiving late homework, wisecracks in the classroom, etc.

That way the kids have structure and get into a routine and THEN you can loosen the reins a little where you see fit.  When my class was formally observed for teacher rating by an Asst. Principal who had just been promoted from Middle School teacher, she was amazed that after a three minute introduction, I said to the kids, "Get into your groups, go to your stations, and set up the lab according to today's handout," and they all did it with no further instruction or help needed to get started - THAT is what establishing a routine does as well as having taught your students how to handle lab stuff.

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