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All This E-Learning Stuff Got Me Thinking!


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...that I deserve and should expect some large tax reduction for my local schools this past year and upcoming year, correct?

Like, they have to be saving a crap ton of money not running physical facilities, massive reduction in activities, laid-off/furloughed employees, and getting stuff done (repairs, upgrades, etc) during regular, non-OT/weekend hours.

Should I be seeing that? Or am I wrong to assume there has been any positive upside to this e-learning/remote schooling?

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Our schools have been passing out Chromebooks and built several mobile wifi hotspots. School supplied meals are being distributed instead of just served.

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1 minute ago, donkpow said:

Our schools have been passing out Chromebooks and built several mobile wifi hotspots. School supplied meals are being distributed instead of just served.

I'm not expecting a FULL refund!  Just a noticeable one!

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Just now, Razors Edge said:

I'm not expecting a FULL refund!  Just a noticeable one!

I believe whatever money is left is being kicked back to the people running the pandemic.

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An interesting situation has developed in opening the schools this year. A couple of the local districts are conducting classes, in person, outdoors. I heard it said last night that this was a common action during the flu pandemic of 1918. I like it. I would have supported it before the pandemic, if they had asked me.

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You will get nothing back and you will like it.

Actually, you will probably see increases in taxation to cover the costs associated with school nurse hirings, computers, IT staff hires, and still have to maintain the physical schools so rats don't take over and pipes don't freeze.  That grass is going to cut itself, you know!

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Just now, Randomguy said:

You will get nothing back and you will like it.

Actually, you will probably see increases in taxation to cover the costs associated with school nurse hirings, computers, IT staff hires, and still have to maintain the physical schools so rats don't take over and pipes don't freeze.  That grass is going to cut itself, you know!

Meh. They ain't doing any of that stuff.  Heck, they can cut staffing in half? By more?  One history teacher per district. One English teacher per district.  Etc. 

SHOW ME THE MONEY!

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1 minute ago, Razors Edge said:

SHOW ME THE MONEY!

The administration has been spending money like drunken seamen on leave in the Phillipines, and they are never leaving the brothel.  No money for you!

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Schools in Michigan are generally not furloughing unused employees.  The schools get operation funds from the state and the state is still providing those.  Employees not working - like bus drivers in WoKzoo's case - are being paid for their normal hours.  If not, there would be no employees when they are called back.

No kids in class - don't need the nurse - if you don't pay her/him they will not be there when in-class studies restart.  They don't have enough bus drivers to begin with.  If a couple decide not to return, the whole transportation department becomes a bottleneck in education.  All these groups are reped. by unions that are working to protect the memberships jobs as well.

 

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8 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

Schools in Michigan are generally not furloughing unused employees.  The schools get operation funds from the state and the state is still providing those.  Employees not working - like bus drivers in WoKzoo's case - are being paid for their normal hours.  If not, there would be no employees when they are called back.

No kids in class - don't need the nurse - if you don't pay her/him they will not be there when in-class studies restart.  They don't have enough bus drivers to begin with.  If a couple decide not to return, the whole transportation department becomes a bottleneck in education.  All these groups are reped. by unions that are working to protect the memberships jobs as well.

 

Man, I feel like I'm in Mother Russia, again!

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20 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

and still have to maintain the physical schools so rats don't take over and pipes don't freeze.

Legionaire's disease was found in the water system of a couple of our schools. Not enough usage to keep the pipes flushed.

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1 hour ago, Razors Edge said:

Man, I feel like I'm in Mother Russia, again!

I live in Michigan.  I do to sometimes.  I'd ask @bikeman564™ to explain but this thread would be nixed.

 

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1 hour ago, donkpow said:

Legionaire's disease was found in the water system of a couple of our schools. Not enough usage to keep the pipes flushed.

I gotta think a dedicated toilet flusher and faucet runner is less expensive than a staff in the 100s????

I WANT MY MONEY BACK!

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3 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

...that I deserve and should expect some large tax reduction for my local schools this past year and upcoming year, correct?

Like, they have to be saving a crap ton of money not running physical facilities, massive reduction in activities, laid-off/furloughed employees, and getting stuff done (repairs, upgrades, etc) during regular, non-OT/weekend hours.

Should I be seeing that? Or am I wrong to assume there has been any positive upside to this e-learning/remote schooling?

You would be incorrect.  It's costing more.  They still have physical facilities to maintain for future use, the employees are all still working and there is considerable investnent going on in the expansion of infrastructure to assist in the temporary practice of remote learning.

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Just now, maddmaxx said:

You would be incorrect.  It's costing more.  They still have physical facilities to maintain for future use, the employees are all still working and there is considerable investnent going on in the expansion of infrastructure to assist in the temporary practice of remote learning.

If you believe that BS, I've got a reverse mortgage that might be something you should consider!

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3 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

I'm not expecting a FULL refund!  Just a noticeable one!

You should probably be paying more.

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Just now, Razors Edge said:

If you believe that BS, I've got a reverse mortgage that might be something you should consider!

Don't care if you believe it or not.  You can go down to your local town hall and ask for the town budget and an explanation of how it's being spent.  Then you can go home and pound sand.

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Just now, maddmaxx said:

Don't care if you believe it or not.  You can go down to your local town hall and ask for the town budget and an explanation of how it's being spent.  Then you can go home and pound sand.

Sure.  That's where you must have scrounged together your "answer".  Sadly, this thread will remain "unsolved"!

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Just now, Razors Edge said:

Sure.  That's where you must have scrounged together your "answer".  Sadly, this thread will remain "unsolved"!

No.  Womaxx is a bookkeeper for the local high school and you are an idiot.  The answer was easy to find after that.

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Just now, maddmaxx said:

No.  Womaxx is a bookkeeper for the local high school and you are an idiot.  The answer was easy to find after that.

There are several educators who post here.  Perhaps before you run off ass first you should ask for some information.

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5 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

There are several educators who post here.  Perhaps before you run off ass first you should ask for some information.

We can wait.  I think Kzoo's perspective of "keep them all employed" and "they're unionized" answered the why, but it really wasn't a defense of the action. 

It's a classic moment where a refund or reduction would be a great idea.  There is no wear and tear in schools right now. There is certainly a reduced staffing requirement.  There is no overtime needed for the hourly folks. There is no fuel nor regular maintenance needed for the bus fleets.  There are very low utility bills. There are no pre or after school activities, so no coaches to pay extra or referees to hire or brilliant floodlights to shine or worn uniforms to launder/replace.  It's a LONG list.  Even the textbooks are saved, so far over six months of wear and tear, and no restocking of chemicals in the science lab and dead frogs to dissect are not needed.  It adds up fast.

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21 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

We can wait.  I think Kzoo's perspective of "keep them all employed" and "they're unionized" answered the why, but it really wasn't a defense of the action. 

It's a classic moment where a refund or reduction would be a great idea.  There is no wear and tear in schools right now. There is certainly a reduced staffing requirement.  There is no overtime needed for the hourly folks. There is no fuel nor regular maintenance needed for the bus fleets.  There are very low utility bills. There are no pre or after school activities, so no coaches to pay extra or referees to hire or brilliant floodlights to shine or worn uniforms to launder/replace.  It's a LONG list.  Even the textbooks are saved, so far over six months of wear and tear, and no restocking of chemicals in the science lab and dead frogs to dissect are not needed.  It adds up fast.

They are being commanded to clean more and deeper than ever before, to purchase special spray wands and guns to sterilize everything every day.  If so much as one person is present in the building that requires a section of the school to be cleaned again.  Because there are stupid people, there are indeed coaches to pay and facilities to clean.  The frogs and chemicals arrived on schedule as they were ordered last year at the end of school in preparation for use this year.......a use that might start up again soo.

You are so far out of your league on the information needed in this thread that it's embarrassing and probably little more than trolling.  I fear that I'm going to have to join kzoo in putting you on the list.

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1 minute ago, maddmaxx said:

They are being commanded to clean more and deeper than ever before, to purchase special spray wands and guns to sterilize everything every day.  If so much as one person is present in the building that requires a section of the school to be cleaned again.  Because there are stupid people, there are indeed coaches to pay and facilities to clean.  The frogs and chemicals arrived on schedule as they were ordered last year at the end of school in preparation for use this year.......a use that might start up again soo.

You are so far out of your league on the information needed in this thread that it's embarrassing and probably little more than trolling.  I fear that I'm going to have to join kzoo in putting you on the list.

So we get our savings later?  Man, I'm happy you've brought sanity to the issue.  Here I thought the schools were closed from March through August (and still are here), but I guess they were a hive of activity.  Good to know. 

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4 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

...that I deserve and should expect some large tax reduction for my local schools this past year and upcoming year, correct?

I think about this all the time. Education is a public trust, so the short answer is "No, you will not receive a tax refund because you're paying into a public trust."

Consider:

NM starts the per program unit value at +/- $4,100. That's a bargain for taxpayer contribution to the public trust at roughly $22 per instructional day, per student.

You know there are more than 100,000 property-tax-paying citizens. But let's say it's 100K because math.

The .22 per day you pay in, multiplied by a 185 day school calendar, yielding a tax refund of $40 if schools didn't cost a thing this year.

But, there is some cost associated with school this year. So, $40 would be an outrageously generous estimate of your refund.

Let's say...half that because math.

$20 refund.

Do you have cash app? I'll send you $20, and we'll call it settling a score between friends.

  

 

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6 minutes ago, roadsue said:

Do you have cash app? I'll send you $20, and we'll call it settling a score between friends.

He doesn't deserve it like I do, send it to me for my 'hooker and blow' fund.

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Just now, Randomguy said:

He doesn't deserve it like I do, send it to me for my 'hooker and blow' fund.

I just signed off an agreement to abide by the ethics of the teaching profession.

I cannot use funds from the public trust for hookers and blow. 

Not even for hookers or blow.

Especially not for hookers in my own family or blow from an unapproved state resource.

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Just now, roadsue said:

I just signed off an agreement to abide by the ethics of the teaching profession.

I cannot use funds from the public trust for hookers and blow. 

Not even for hookers or blow.

Especially not for hookers in my own family or blow from an unapproved state resource.

Just wth kind of republican are you?

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2 minutes ago, roadsue said:

I think about this all the time. Education is a public trust, so the short answer is "No, you will not receive a tax refund because you're paying into a public trust."

Consider:

NM starts the per program unit value at +/- $4,100. That's a bargain for taxpayer contribution to the public trust at roughly $22 per instructional day, per student.

You know there are more than 100,000 property-tax-paying citizens. But let's say it's 100K because math.

The .22 per day you pay in, multiplied by a 185 day school calendar, yielding a tax refund of $40 if schools didn't cost a thing this year.

But, there is some cost associated with school this year. So, $40 would be an outrageously generous estimate of your refund.

Let's say...half that because math.

$20 refund.

Do you have cash app? I'll send you $20, and we'll call it settling a score between friends.

  

 

NM or your district might be different than mine, but man, I'd love (from a $$$ perspective) to pay $40/year for my contribution to public education!  Obviously, from a citizen standpoint, I WANT my local kids educated, so I happily pay thousands a year for local schools.

My county of 1 million, has a budget of $4.47 Billion of which $2.14 Billion goes to county schools.  That's a bit more, per person, than $40???

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Just now, Randomguy said:

Just wth kind of republican are you?

I'm not running for office. 

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Just now, Razors Edge said:

NM or your district might be different than mine, but man, I'd love (from a $$$ perspective) to pay $40/year for my contribution to public education!

The program unit value is public information. A quick Google search will turn up the exact number for your state.

You probably do pay less than $40 in tax money into the bucket for education.

 

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1 minute ago, roadsue said:

I'm not running for office. 

But from a serious - ignore Razor Edge's BS - perspective, have school systems REALLY not seen any savings from this shutdown for the past 6 months?  And if so, what kind of savings, and if not, why not?

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There is another revenue stream that is available to primary and secondary schools.  That's CARES Act funds.  I don't know the details because I don't work for a school system but I know that the clients we have that are both individual school systems and intermediate school 'associations' have told us that theuy have funds available form the federal gov't for technology (Chrome books for students and increased security).  Other industries have similar available funds but I know we have school system customers that are right now figuring out how to spend 'millions' of dollars on technology.

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4 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

have school systems REALLY not seen any savings from this shutdown

What has cost less for them?  They pay employees whether they work or not, they pay for infrastructure, they pay for feeding kids.......  One school system mentioned on the news hired a couple hundred 'extra' teachers to have on standby to fill in for the ones they know they will be losing.  Not temps from the agency - full time future subs.

 

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3 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

There is another revenue stream that is available to primary and secondary schools.  That's CARES Act funds.  I don't know the details because I don't work for a school system but I know that the clients we have that are both individual school systems and intermediate school 'associations' have told us that theuy have funds available form the federal gov't for technology (Chrome books for students and increased security).  Other industries have similar available funds but I know we have school system customers that are right now figuring out how to spend 'millions' of dollars on technology.

Yep.  My county's budget calls out "This total represents a decrease of $203,679,652, or 4.37 percent, from the FY 2020 Revised Budget Plan, due primarily to the recognition of the CARES Coronavirus Relief Funds in FY 2020."

$200 million is nothing to sneeze at!

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Just now, Razors Edge said:

Yep.  My county's budget calls out "This total represents a decrease of $203,679,652, or 4.37 percent, from the FY 2020 Revised Budget Plan, due primarily to the recognition of the CARES Coronavirus Relief Funds in FY 2020."

$200 million is nothing to sneeze at!

But you aren't getting any of it back.  And did the budget detail say it was all for education?  County and municipal gov'ts have CARES dollars available unrelated to education. We have tribal casino customers that have CARES Act dollars to spend on infrastructure as well.

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1 minute ago, Razors Edge said:

But from a serious - ignore Razor Edge's BS - perspective, have school systems REALLY not seen any savings from this shutdown for the past 6 months?  And if so, what kind of savings, and if not, why not?

My district has not realized savings. There have been furloughs in some positions. But there are furlough days every year because $22 per student per day is a tight budget for what we are asked to do.

They provided a Chrome book or iPad to every student in the district along with wifi access through December to families who applied and met the economic criteria.

They are bound by law to provide breakfast and lunch to qualifying students, but extended that to include dinner and enough for everyone in the household.

Health care costs increased, so part of that is borne by the district and part by employees.

The NMAA has agreed to hold athletic practices and competitions for some of the lower contact sports, like X-Country and Volleyball, and to allow other sports programs to practice and condition in no-contact ways. Coaches are still very much doing their jobs. And fwiw, this district/state does not cover the full cost of uniforms. Students and the program boosters have to come up with hundreds each year to pay for uniforms and equipment.

The custodial and M&O staffs have been working extended hours to deep clean. Their supplies are also more expensive than previous years, including the anti-corrosive gloves they now use. Can you believe those were not standard issue for custodial staff previously? They just wore nitrile gloves to clean.

Plexiglass shields installed in every administrative area throughout the district. 

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1 minute ago, Kzoo said:

What has cost less for them?  They pay employees whether they work or not, they pay for infrastructure, they pay for feeding kids.......  One school system mentioned on the news hired a couple hundred 'extra' teachers to have on standby to fill in for the ones they know they will be losing.  Not temps from the agency - full time future subs.

 

  • They pay employees whether they work or not: at EXACTLY the regular rate. No extras. No overtime.
  • they pay for infrastructure: that see less wear and tear, can be maintained during normal working hours (regular rates), is less disruptive in general (no need to bring in protables while renovating, etc), greatly reduced utilities - electric and water at almost negligible levels, reduced landscaping (football, baseball, soccer fields need less maint, swimming pools less attention, gyms reduced waxing/buffing).
  • they pay for feeding kids. - some do, some don't, and those that do likely can do it more efficiently - ie packed/boxed meals that don't require use of the cafeteria all day long and the cleaning of all that stuff several times, etc.

But yeah, I'd like to see the whole picture.  It's interesting to see this is a hot button issue.

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4 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

But you aren't getting any of it back.  And did the budget detail say it was all for education?  County and municipal gov'ts have CARES dollars available unrelated to education. We have tribal casino customers that have CARES Act dollars to spend on infrastructure as well.

Yep - that was across the total budget of which school is half.  I'm just agreeing that other money came in to add to the budget (or reduce the need).

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2 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

It's interesting to see this is a hot button issue.

Only because you keep asking stupid questions and making dumb statements.

You are not listening nor using your head.  Take the food.  You think they are distributing that at the school like they use to?  No.  There are now distribution sites that are manned by district employees at several convenient locations - multiple times a day - with additional cleaning responsibilities at both ends.

 

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3 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

they pay for feeding kids. - some do, some don't, and those that do likely can do it more efficiently - ie packed/boxed meals that don't require use of the cafeteria all day long and the cleaning of all that stuff several times, etc.

Much of the food for school cafeterias is tied up in federal regulation because it's federally funded. I recently saw a news feature about school cafeterias distributing food, and the stuff they were showing was like bags of Ritz bits and fruit chews. How is that happening? 

I wouldn't be surprised if buckets of untapped money from the previous budget weren't spent in a hurry to assure the bucket would be available again for this year.

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2 hours ago, Kzoo said:

There is another revenue stream that is available to primary and secondary schools.  That's CARES Act funds.  I don't know the details because I don't work for a school system but I know that the clients we have that are both individual school systems and intermediate school 'associations' have told us that theuy have funds available form the federal gov't for technology (Chrome books for students and increased security).  Other industries have similar available funds but I know we have school system customers that are right now figuring out how to spend 'millions' of dollars on technology.

Perhaps you are dealing with large cities?

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1 hour ago, maddmaxx said:

Perhaps you are dealing with large cities?

No.  School districts of all sizes.

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16 hours ago, roadsue said:

Much of the food for school cafeterias is tied up in federal regulation because it's federally funded. I recently saw a news feature about school cafeterias distributing food, and the stuff they were showing was like bags of Ritz bits and fruit chews. How is that happening? 

I wouldn't be surprised if buckets of untapped money from the previous budget weren't spent in a hurry to assure the bucket would be available again for this year.

This is interesting as it then puts some focus on one of the ongoing "costs" that might not be a cost - Kzoo's "they're feeding kids". 

A lot of my wonderment at this whole thing is how, again, we seem to be ready to accept a story (fact or fiction?) that we can shut down in-person schooling for half a year (or more) yet still need the same - OR MORE - money to operate as a normal year.  Is this a one time penalty for every school system in the country being caught flat-footed and/or unsupported at the state and federal level? Or is this a "new normal" where things that were supposed to be less expensive (like e-learning and reduced facility management) actually turn out to be MORE expensive?

In the software & IT world, we've continued to wrestle with the "cloud" actually saving us money.  It has really just become a different way to spend more money each year.  It looks like this might just be the way it goes with the schools - never a savings, never new efficiencies that aren't more than offset by something else, a slow and steady expansion with no end?

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56 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

every school system in the country being caught flat-footed and/or unsupported at the state and federal level?

Conversations about adequate school funding happen at the political level, and as such have rarely been honest. 
Teachers and students can tell us exactly what they need: smaller class sizes, individualized attention, access to lots of different materials. Somehow Finland is able to offer this kind of schooling. The US, not so much. 

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8 minutes ago, roadsue said:

Finland is able to offer this kind of schooling. The US, not so much. 

That is because in the US and A, kids can't vote and they aren't rich.

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