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It is going to be a shit show


Parr8hed

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here.  Maybe as early as today?  

They are expected to announce the findings of the Brianna Taylor investigation.  EVERYTHING in downtown is shut down.  Restaurants and bars are boarded up.  The courthouse is boarded up and had fences put up.  Access of exit ramps to downtown has large concrete barriers put up.  I am working in the East end of Louisville today.  About 15-20 miles from downtown.  I can scoot right across our east end bridge around 2 and get my happy ass back to Indiana, avoiding downtown all together.  Our downtown location is closed and boarded up.  We have had to move patients around starting tomorrow.  I hope it's all for nothing, but I don't think it will be.  

Louisville Police has cancelled all "off days" and vacation.  There are about 20 cars from homeland security staying in a hotel right across the street from me and national guard trucks are everywhere.  

Crazy days.  

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17 minutes ago, Parr8hed said:

They are expected to announce the findings of the Brianna Taylor investigation.

I imagine they're gonna try to walk a fine line between not aggravating the police and not aggravating the folks getting unjustly killed by the police. 

I don't think the report will lay out any real reforms to policing that will make folks safer in their homes, but maybe those will come later or via some other process.  If the settlement with her family is any indication, there may be some positives that come from a senseless death, but a few decades of paying attention to this sort of issue makes me wonder if there is really much progress beyond greater and greater attention to its persistence.  Video technology really shines a bright light on what has been going on for a long time, so body cam footage, if it exists, likely shines light on how something like a no-knock warrant plays out.  Any one of us can imagine how we would react if our front door was smashed in and an we were awoken from our sleep to yelling and bright lights, etc..  Fight or flight, but rarely submission are the results expected, and those first two can easily result in force being used.  Great when going after a super aggro drug lord, but very, very awful when used against innocent folks.

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35 minutes ago, Parr8hed said:

Source?  

From every I have read, the facts are that they found nothing.  Believe me if they had found so much as a pot pipe, it would be all over the news.

Police make mistakes.  This mistake lead to the death of an innocent person.  

If I accidentally run someone over, I would be held accountable.  The police should be held accountable too.

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23 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

From every I have read, the facts are that they found nothing.  Believe me if they had found so much as a pot pipe, it would be all over the news.

Police make mistakes.  This mistake lead to the death of an innocent person.  

If I accidentally run someone over, I would be held accountable.  The police should be held accountable too.

I did go back and actually find a few sources that said she was asleep.  Apologies.  Living here there are many, many things floating around.  I don't wish to speculate so I won't.

But who do you think is actually responsible?  The cops that shot her?  What are you supposed to do if you show up to serve a warrant, and someone from behind the door shoots at you?

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5 minutes ago, Parr8hed said:

I did go back and actually find a few sources that said she was asleep.  Apologies.  Living here there are many, many things floating around.  I don't wish to speculate so I won't.

But who do you think is actually responsible?  The cops that shot her?  What are you supposed to do if you show up to serve a warrant, and someone from behind the door shoots at you?

Tricky situation.  I don't have any answers but I will say that police act reckless and lawless these days.  Clubbing reporters doesn't look good on us as a nation.  

She was asleep when they banged on the door from everything I read.  I think they shot her in the hall though.  

I adore you and everyone on this forum.  I don't want to poke and argue.  I am just a far left leaner.  I don't like seeing the militarization of our police and taking away my rights like freedom of assembly.  Some states want to make this a prosecutable offense.   

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My understanding of the events that night are that the day police had a no knock warrant for Breonna’s boyfriend. The LPD procedures for these are to bust in without knocking to surprise the residents and prevent the destruction of drugs or evidence. Boyfriend heard the door open and fired his weapon at the intruders. His story was he didn’t know it was the fuzz. Cops return fire, as they are trained, a bullet hits and kills Breonna as she lay in bed. I might have the facts wrong; I wasn’t there. But, we are living in a culture where everyone seems to have a gun. Cops have felt for the past 40 years that anyone can be carrying and feel like targets out there. I believe that this is the reason cops tend to shoot first. They don’t want to be shot first. It sucks but that’s the way it is.

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2 minutes ago, Old No. 7 said:

My understanding of the events that night are that the day police had a no knock warrant for Breonna’s boyfriend. The LPD procedures for these are to bust in without knocking to surprise the residents and prevent the destruction of drugs or evidence. Boyfriend heard the door open and fired his weapon at the intruders. His story was he didn’t know it was the fuzz. Cops return fire, as they are trained, a bullet hits and kills Breonna as she lay in bed. I might have the facts wrong; I wasn’t there. But, we are living in a culture where everyone seems to have a gun. Cops have felt for the past 40 years that anyone can be carrying and feel like targets out there. I believe that this is the reason cops tend to shoot first. They don’t want to be shot first. It sucks but that’s the way it is.

This is pretty accurate. One other fact is that the target of the warrant wasn’t there. 
 

This is not a case of murder. Perhaps procedures around knockless warrants can be changed. 
 

Does Mitch live in Louisville? Don’t be surprised if they surround his house while they’re at it. 

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Everybody stop.  Catch your breath and then read this Wikipedia article that pretty much tells the story and the facts.  There is far too much guesswork going on here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Breonna_Taylor#:~:text=The search warrant included Taylor's,in front of Glover's house.

 

Parr8 has it right.  It was a shit show.

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1 hour ago, BuffJim said:

The guy in her apartment shot at the police. They returned fire. 

No knock warrants are a horrible abuse of police power. In this case it was used for an investigation - not an arrest. If someone wakes me up in the middle of the night by breaking down my door, I'm shooting.

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57 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

Tricky situation.  I don't have any answers but I will say that police act reckless and lawless these days.  Clubbing reporters doesn't look good on us as a nation.  

She was asleep when they banged on the door from everything I read.  I think they shot her in the hall though.  

I adore you and everyone on this forum.  I don't want to poke and argue.  I am just a far left leaner.  I don't like seeing the militarization of our police and taking away my rights like freedom of assembly.  Some states want to make this a prosecutable offense.   

I feel the same about you.  You are one of my fav peeps.  I realize that I have a lot different outlook on this  case because my dad was a cop.  That comes with a certain bias.  And you are right.  There are certain times when the police can be too heavy handed.  Agree with you there.  

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35 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

Everybody stop.  Catch your breath and then read this Wikipedia article that pretty much tells the story and the facts.  There is far too much guesswork going on here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Breonna_Taylor#:~:text=The search warrant included Taylor's,in front of Glover's house.

 

Parr8 has it right.  It was a shit show.

Right off the bat, the first sentence is wrong.  She was fired over two years ago as an EMT.  Semantics, yes I know.  But it does have bearing here.  She was fired for drug related charges.  

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When I lived in Norfolk VA the police chief's son was shot by an old man as the kid ran upstairs to the bedroom during a no knock warrant accidently served on the wrong address.  The police moved heaven and earth in an attempt to charge the old man.  It took a couple of years but they failed in the end.  Asshats.

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4 minutes ago, Parr8hed said:

Right off the bat, the first sentence is wrong.  She was fired over two years ago as an EMT.  Semantics, yes I know.  But it does have bearing here.  She was fired for drug related charges.  

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From the third (18) footnote:

Taylor was shot dead in March when LMPD officers engaged her boyfriend in a shootout while they were serving a warrant at her apartment.

Her personnel records show that she worked for the city from January 2016 through November 2016.

She was promoted to become an EMT in June of that year, and worked in that capacity for five months. It was a career her family has said she was proud of.

The documents show she'd called that November and resigned. A termination form also has a box checked stating do not rehire. But, it does not state a reason why that box was checked.

The city said it could not share that information because it’s a personnel matter.

Taylor went on to continue working in the medical field. At the time of her death, she was working for UofL Health as an ER technician.

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3 minutes ago, Parr8hed said:

Right off the bat, the first sentence is wrong.  She was fired over two years ago as an EMT.  Semantics, yes I know.  But it does have bearing here.  She was fired for drug related charges.  

Interesting twist there.

Taking the hospital meds is a real problem. People locally have been fired over this as well. 
 

my big hope with all of this stuff is that hopefully we will have some reform. There are too many cases of policing with a battering ram and inflicting unneeded harm for minor offenses.

On this same topic, George F was no angel. There is no way in hell that a street should be named after him. It was wrong how he died, but a street named after a rapist? Really? His victim must be pissed over this. 

The protests are really going nuts. I think it is a symptom of a much larger problem that we need to stop ignoring. The protest in Portland is a very small area. It’s right at the court building and police building. Portland is not “on fire.”  

My hubby had an interesting take. He said when you have thousands that are protesting, they don’t all fit on a sidewalk. This people end up in streets due to the sheer size of the assembly. Logistics.

 

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1 hour ago, Parr8hed said:

But who do you think is actually responsible?  The cops that shot her?  What are you supposed to do if you show up to serve a warrant, and someone from behind the door shoots at you?

Is Kentucky a "Stand Your Ground" state?  If it is and the police didn't identify themselves then he had the right to use deadly force. 

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16 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

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image.png.720c641cd33265a877336dda37eb25f0.png

From the third (18) footnote:

Taylor was shot dead in March when LMPD officers engaged her boyfriend in a shootout while they were serving a warrant at her apartment.

Her personnel records show that she worked for the city from January 2016 through November 2016.

She was promoted to become an EMT in June of that year, and worked in that capacity for five months. It was a career her family has said she was proud of.

The documents show she'd called that November and resigned. A termination form also has a box checked stating do not rehire. But, it does not state a reason why that box was checked.

The city said it could not share that information because it’s a personnel matter.

Taylor went on to continue working in the medical field. At the time of her death, she was working for UofL Health as an ER technician.

Thanks.  Obviously I did not read that far.  As a nurse I have tons of EMS friends. I have heard lots of issues.  

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2 minutes ago, Mr. Silly said:

Is Kentucky a "Stand Your Ground" state?  If it is and the police didn't identify themselves then he had the right to use deadly force. 

Honestly, that's a good question.  I don't know.  I don't think that anyone is really disputing the fact that he shot if he truly though it was an intruder.  I think it was all just really, really shitty timing.   We have talked to my kids about this case.  If you get involved with a bunch of drug people, and do a bunch of drug shit then bad things happen.  Maybe she was innocent that evening.  Maybe she was laying in bed sleeping.  I can certainly believe that.  But the warrant was made for that property for a reason.  

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Just now, Dirtyhip said:

Be careful with whom you associate with.  Moral of the story, I guess.

I agree with Parrot about that.

It's a good rule. But not always one you can live by :(  I know folks with drug/alcohol addicted siblings, who go in and out of rehab or periods of sobriety, and bring with them many problems. Those problems can follow them to a family birthday, wedding, or 4th of July party.

Likewise, it's the classic "blame the victim" in this case, since unless the report shows she was in any way an active participant in wrongdoing and that the wrongdoing was something a reasonable person would expect to be killed for.  How many times have your heard/seen situations of "Well, why were you at the bar where men would be drinking and you were wearing a skirt?"??? 

You can arrest a person during the day, outside, as they walk to their car or head to a store.  You can execute a search warrant on a property as soon as the person you are after is arrested. Again, there will or should be reforms made that steer us away from making heavy-handed enforcement a "norm" in our neighborhoods.

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4 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

It's a good rule. But not always one you can live by :(  I know folks with drug/alcohol addicted siblings, who go in and out of rehab or periods of sobriety, and bring with them many problems. Those problems can follow them to a family birthday, wedding, or 4th of July party.

Likewise, it's the classic "blame the victim" in this case, since unless the report shows she was in any way an active participant in wrongdoing and that the wrongdoing was something a reasonable person would expect to be killed for.  How many times have your heard/seen situations of "Well, why were you at the bar where men would be drinking and you were wearing a skirt?"??? 

You can arrest a person during the day, outside, as they walk to their car or head to a store.  You can execute a search warrant on a property as soon as the person you are after is arrested. Again, there will or should be reforms made that steer us away from making heavy-handed enforcement a "norm" in our neighborhoods.

agree 100% 

Again, lots of rumors flying around this case.  Hard to tell what to believe or not.  

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On 9/22/2020 at 9:04 AM, jsharr said:

Meanwhile two cops sitting a car shot in the face and no protest. 
 

Strange Days Indeed 

What would the protest be about?  We should make that illegal?  Would cop murderers have a change of heart because people protested?

The whole point of a protest is to change a societal norm that parts of society now see as wrong.

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46 minutes ago, 12string said:

What would the protest be about?  We should make that illegal?  Would cop murderers have a change of heart because people protested?

The whole point of a protest is to change a societal norm that parts of society now see as wrong.

I would not expect to see a protest about something that we all want to see resolved with the capture and conviction of the person who did it.

On the other hand, there were reports that some were taunting those police while they were bleeding.  If so shame on them.  Perhaps if they are identified, there would be some criminal charges for not rendering aid.

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50 minutes ago, 12string said:

What would the protest be about?  We should make that illegal?  Would cop murderers have a change of heart because people protested?

The whole point of a protest is to change a societal norm that parts of society now see as wrong.

I believe this is a grand jury decision, not a criminal conviction.  The ruling could be that they won’t file a criminal complaint which all he’ll would break loose.  However, If the grand jury files a complaint of say involuntary manslaughter the protesters could also erupt.

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4 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

I believe this is a grand jury decision, not a criminal conviction.  The ruling could be that they won’t file a criminal complaint which all he’ll would break loose.  However, If the grand jury files a complaint of say involuntary manslaughter the protesters could also erupt.

The public doesn't understand "murder".  As far as they are concerned if someone is killed there should be a murder charge.  Ignorance of the law is an issue in some riots.

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8 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

Charges brought and the case is turned over to the courts.  Wanton endangerment for shooting into the apartment.  This is for the fired officer who shot blindly 10 rounds into a dark apartment.

I suspect that the crowd will not be happy with less than the gillotine.

Sorry. Posted before I read your scoop. Things will probably get dicy. 

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This is probably the weakest charge that might have been brought.  Yes a shot was fired at the police but they had no idea who else might have been there.  Reference my question in a post above as to how this might have gone down if there had been a child in the room as well.  It just seem to me that "tough shit you have to be careful about who you associate with" isn't a good enough excuse.

The fact that rounds entered three adjacent apartments should be a great big fat red flag about the use of extreme force.

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