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It is going to be a shit show


Parr8hed

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32 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

I believe this is a grand jury decision, not a criminal conviction.  The ruling could be that they won’t file a criminal complaint which all he’ll would break loose.  However, If the grand jury files a complaint of say involuntary manslaughter the protesters could also erupt.

I wasn't talking about the Taylor case.  It was about the 2 cops being shot and no one protesting

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40 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

I would not expect to see a protest about something that we all want to see resolved with the capture and conviction of the person who did it.

On the other hand, there were reports that some were taunting those police while they were bleeding.  If so shame on them.  Perhaps if they are identified, there would be some criminal charges for not rendering aid.

Taunting them?  Hell, they were lined up outside of the ER entrance trying to block to ambulances shouting "I hope you die".  

 

https://calcoastnews.com/2020/09/gunman-shoots-two-deputies-in-la-county-protesters-block-ambulances/

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1 minute ago, maddmaxx said:

OK.  The explanation.

Louisville ducked the problem, concentrating only on the endangerment portion.  They are turning over the possibility of further charges to the state and federal government.

 

IMO that's not going to stop the burning.

Or maybe, just perhaps, they were just doing their job and they did everything right?

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2 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

By the time this is over, there will be no winners, only losers.

Agree.  

 

Just now, maddmaxx said:

Again, how would you feel if a random bullet had killed a child in that apartment or an adjacent one.  I cannot buy everything being done right.

I would probably be quite pissed.  I don't know the answers here.  I am trying to listen to some of the coverage now.  

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6 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

They went to the hospital the deputies were taken to and tried to prevent care...

That's horrible.  Anyone doing that had better be charged.

What is wrong with people?  You actually can protest when cops murder people and support cops when they get murdered!  Are you anti-murder or not?

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51 minutes ago, Parr8hed said:

Hell, they were lined up outside of the ER entrance trying to block to ambulances shouting "I hope you die". 

That sounds awful!  My first instinct was "what right wing bias-rag did that crap spew from?" but calcoastnews doesn't seem to have that bias at all.  Then I saw that this happened in Compton, and many of the residents have a bit of a reputation for hating everybody.   Some protesters are dicks and all are not saints, so there is that, too.

How can you be "anti law enforcement"?  I can see being anti dick-cop abuse and looking for reform, that makes perfect sense.  Anti law enforcement is a different thing entirely and to chant that is pretty damn crappy.

Btw, I got off the highway and mistakenly went into Compton once.  People all started talking excitedly pointing at my '81 4-door Buick Skylark with me in it and I thought "I had better get outta here pretty quickly, so I did.  Weird vibe for the white guy.

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1 minute ago, Randomguy said:

That sounds awful!  My first instinct was "what right wing bias-rag did that crap spew from?" but calcoastnews doesn't seem to have that bias at all.  Then I saw that this happened in Compton, and many of the residents have a bit of a reputation for hating everybody.   Some protesters are dicks and all are not saints, so there is that, too.

How can you be "anti law enforcement"?  I can see being anti dick-cop abuse and looking for reform, that makes perfect sense.  Anti law enforcement is a different thing entirely and to chant that is pretty damn crappy.

Btw, I got off the highway and mistakenly went into Compton once.  People all started talking excitedly pointing at my '81 4-door Buick Skylark with me in it and I thought "I had better get outta here pretty quickly, so I did.  Weird vibe for the white guy.

yea, I just copied the first link I saw.  There were many.  

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6 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

That sounds awful!  My first instinct was "what right wing bias-rag did that crap spew from?" but calcoastnews doesn't seem to have that bias at all.  Then I saw that this happened in Compton, and many of the residents have a bit of a reputation for hating everybody.   Some protesters are dicks and all are not saints, so there is that, too.

How can you be "anti law enforcement"?  I can see being anti dick-cop abuse and looking for reform, that makes perfect sense.  Anti law enforcement is a different thing entirely and to chant that is pretty damn crappy.

Btw, I got off the highway and mistakenly went into Compton once.  People all started talking excitedly pointing at my '81 4-door Buick Skylark with me in it and I thought "I had better get outta here pretty quickly, so I did.  Weird vibe for the white guy.

I did a lot of work in the CPT, North Long Beach, Wilmington, Lynwood, South Central, Rampart etc.   One of the few benefits of being a person of color,  I blended in... Funny that one of the few times I actually had to put hands on someone (as a civilian) was in Beverly Hills!   

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1 hour ago, Dirtyhip said:

11 shots fired in reckless fashion. They are not very good at their job. 

When you are being fired upon and your partner is injured it is probably very hard to say what is and is not reckless.    Not sure, as I have never been under fire or had to return fire, but this would be my basic assumption.

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1 minute ago, jsharr said:

When you are being fired upon and your partner is injured it is probably very hard to say what is and is not reckless.    Not sure, as I have never been under fire or had to return fire, but this would be my basic assumption.

You have to have a good idea where your shots are going.  There are innocent people on the other side of those walls.  No charges have been made against the policeman who was shot and who responded with the first return fire.  No charges against his partner standing near him.  The charges are against a policeman outside the apartment windows who fired 10 rounds into the apartment with what seems to have been no target other than "in there".  His rounds penetrated other apartments with people in them.  That's a pretty big deal and he was fired almost immediately for it.  Now he's going to court over it.

Now I'm watching Louisville and the protest was peaceful till the police formed a wall and tried to stop it.  I don't think this is going to go well.  Get out of town parr8.

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12 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

You have to have a good idea where your shots are going.  There are innocent people on the other side of those walls.  No charges have been made against the policeman who was shot and who responded with the first return fire.  No charges against his partner standing near him.  The charges are against a policeman outside the apartment windows who fired 10 rounds into the apartment with what seems to have been no target other than "in there".  His rounds penetrated other apartments with people in them.  That's a pretty big deal and he was fired almost immediately for it.  Now he's going to court over it.

Now I'm watching Louisville and the protest was peaceful till the police formed a wall and tried to stop it.  I don't think this is going to go well.  Get out of town parr8.

See, I need to read some stuff first.  Yeah, that sort of ass hattery needs to go and he deserves what ever he gets.

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18 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

You have to have a good idea where your shots are going.  There are innocent people on the other side of those walls.  No charges have been made against the policeman who was shot and who responded with the first return fire.  No charges against his partner standing near him.  The charges are against a policeman outside the apartment windows who fired 10 rounds into the apartment with what seems to have been no target other than "in there".  His rounds penetrated other apartments with people in them.  That's a pretty big deal and he was fired almost immediately for it.  Now he's going to court over it.

Now I'm watching Louisville and the protest was peaceful till the police formed a wall and tried to stop it.  I don't think this is going to go well.  Get out of town parr8.

One last patient on the machine, he's coming off now.  Softball practice is cancelled.  I will be home in Indiana soon.  

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23 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

You have to have a good idea where your shots are going.  There are innocent people on the other side of those walls.  No charges have been made against the policeman who was shot and who responded with the first return fire.  No charges against his partner standing near him.  The charges are against a policeman outside the apartment windows who fired 10 rounds into the apartment with what seems to have been no target other than "in there".  His rounds penetrated other apartments with people in them.  That's a pretty big deal and he was fired almost immediately for it.  Now he's going to court over it.

Now I'm watching Louisville and the protest was peaceful till the police formed a wall and tried to stop it.  I don't think this is going to go well.  Get out of town parr8.

Somebody really need to do serious training on protest control.

Protesters only want to be heard.  Build a wall to stop them, they aren't heard.  Maybe a fire or 6 will be heard instead.

Get the mayor and Chief out there to listen to them, that will keep things calm.  Yes, except the opportunists, no stopping them.  Unless the protesters decide to stop them because they feel like they were heard and looting will hurt their cause.

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17 minutes ago, jsharr said:

See, I need to read some stuff first.  Yeah, that sort of ass hattery needs to go and he deserves what ever he gets.

Most of what I got today was from the actual reading of the Grand Jury indictment and what was a statement from some official (possibly the head prosecutor) specifying the details of the charges and non charges along with the statement that they felt it necessary to turn the remainder of the investigation over to the FEDs and State authorities.  There was an exact count of who claims to have seen what, who fired how many shots and how many shots struck Taylor.  They did not however specify which police gun fired the fatal shot but did admit that one was fatal and the others weren't. (6 shots).  The non disclosure is troubling some, but I can see where, barring charges it might not be a good idea to name names.

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Big problem I have with all of this lately is they are using military grade weapons against their own citizens.  Some are not peaceful protesting, but the most are peaceful.  This is our constitutional right to protest and assemble.  FL is making it a crime, and even going as far as making vehicular murder legal.

Things have never been so bad for us.  This is not the USA that I used to love.  

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1 minute ago, Dirtyhip said:

This is our constitutional right to protest and assemble. 

But your protest does not have the constitutional right to impede with my life unless the local government says so.  And that has been constitutionally affirmed by the Supreme Court.  The right to assembly is not universal.

 

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1 minute ago, Kzoo said:

And last I knew, pepper spray and rubber bullets were not part of our strategic military assets in the Middle East.

Those vehicles are.  

Additionally, they are not using the rubber bullets in a non-lethal way.  They are meant to be fired at the ground.  They are shooting people in the head with them.

ALso, National Gueard is meant to protect citizens, not beat them up.  Gross misuse of power.  

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2 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

But your protest does not have the constitutional right to impede with my life unless the local government says so.  And that has been constitutionally affirmed by the Supreme Court.  The right to assembly is not universal.  

 

The right to use force to prevent a rally is not universal either unless one is willing to have even more protest.  Sometimes you just have to go with the flow and let them close a street for an hour.  When you build a wall on a peaceful protest you simply give more excuse to the crazies looking for opportunity to start the fires.  Of course, then after the center of town looks like a bombed out war zone you can stand on the need for the assembly to be approved as justification.

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2 hours ago, maddmaxx said:

Did you know that tear gas may be illegal to use on the battle front but is approved for civil unrest.  Strange world.

The Geneva Protocol does not allow the use of chemical agents but it also doesn’t specifically specify is CS or non lethal gassed can be used.  The military has used CS gas in the past to quell violent protests and it was used to “smoke out” tunnels in Vietnam.  We had CS in our inventory but as a soldier I never deployed it and I was in several riots.  

I find this point interesting (against the Geneva Protocol) as chemical agents used as a form of non lethal interventionist has been in use for decades.

2 hours ago, Dirtyhip said:

It is far more dangerous to us than they let on.  

Geneva Protocol.  It's illegal, yet they use it on  us.  FUCKERS!

Please be careful with the labels here as not all police are fuckers just as not all protesters are rioters.  

Ever get hit in the head by a bottle? Ever have stones bounce off your shins?  Ever  have your leg bitten by a rioter? Yeah we gassed them, I guess I am a fucker and I’m good with it.

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7 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

The Geneva Protocol does not allow the use of chemical agents but it also doesn’t specifically specify is CS or non lethal gassed can be used.  The military has used CS gas in the past to quell violent protests and it was used to “smoke out” tunnels in Vietnam.  We had CS in our inventory but as a soldier I never deployed it and I was in several riots.  

I find this point interesting (against the Geneva Protocol) as chemical agents used as a form of non lethal interventionist has been in use for decades.

Please be careful with the labels here as not all police are fuckers just as not all protesters are rioters.  

Ever get hit in the head by a bottle? Ever have stones bounce off your shins?  Ever  have your leg bitten by a rioter? Yeah we gassed them, I guess I am a fucker and I’m good with it.

It has been being used on peaceful protesters.  Like the ones that were near that church in DC.  That is wrong wrong wrong.  

I  do not like the idea of people throwing things.  But they are punching reporters in the face, and gassing people that are just holding a sign.  That is crap. It's a bad situation.  Until the powers that be address the issues, I think it will get a lot worse.  Silence on the matter is making the issue worse. 

Yeah, if I was holding a camera and get beat up, yeah those police are totally wrong.  Freedom of press. 

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The cops in Louisville were following their training and procedures, the no knock warrant and total clusterfuck of administration are at fault. 

The protesters want the cops burnt but the gripe is with the system, the cops are a sacrifice to appease them,     

This is not going to stop until the system changes. The British thought they could clamp down on the Irish, that worked well...The Vietnamese rolled over when the guns showed up....Afghanistan..... 

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1 minute ago, Dirtyhip said:

It has been being used on peaceful protesters.  Like the ones that were near that church in DC.  That is wrong wrong wrong.  

I  do not like the idea of people throwing things.  But they are punching reporters in the face, and gassing people that are just holding a sign.  That is crap. It's a bad situation.  Until the powers that be address the issues, I think it will get a lot worse.  Silence on the matter is making the issue worse. 

Yeah, if I was holding a camera and get beat up, yeah those police are totally wrong.  Freedom of press. 

Lots of wrong going on.  I know it’s pissing you off, it pisses me off too but it’s a complex and dynamic situation. I wish I had a better answer but I don’t.

Remember I walked away from my job as a cop 30 years ago due to a culture of violence I just couldn’t get on board with.  I have been discussing police abuse for decades, I get it. Shit I was a part of it.   But I can’t support some of the protest behavior either.

Just a lot of wrong all around...

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16 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

But they are punching reporters in the face, and gassing people that are just holding a sign.  That is crap. It's a bad situation.  Until the powers that be address the issues, I think it will get a lot worse.  Silence on the matter is making the issue worse.

This is definitely crappy and is pissing people off mightily in NYC, and causing reactions and creating enemies.  Police state stuff, and people who have been abused will lash out unless/until heard.  That means more protests that will eventually turn ever more violent.   What the people in charge have been doing is not working, different methods have to be used by the people in charge and/or the people in charge need to go away.

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54 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

Lots of wrong going on.  I know it’s pissing you off, it pisses me off too but it’s a complex and dynamic situation. I wish I had a better answer but I don’t.

Remember I walked away from my job as a cop 30 years ago due to a culture of violence I just couldn’t get on board with.  I have been discussing police abuse for decades, I get it. Shit I was a part of it.   But I can’t support some of the protest behavior either.

Just a lot of wrong all around...

Agreed.  I appreciate our local police here I really do.  But, I have not been victim to being clubbed and beaten.  They are pretty good here. We don't hear about the abuse.  Maybe I am in a bubble, cause we don't have all that kind of racial injustice and people being shot and killed by bad cops. 

Had one incident where my husband was passing a stop sign and this patrol car came screaming up and seemed like he wasn't going to stop.  I think it is possible he didn't see my husband.  My husband said "Whoa.  Stop sign."  <as he pointed at the sign>  The cop became irate and stared screaming at my hubby "I WAS GONNA STOP!!!"  Like he screamed at him.  My husband said what he said in a calm voice.  My husband isn't like me.  He is gentle and quiet. The cop was a jerk, and he was clearly in the wrong.  It was a 25 mph zone and he was driving like a maniac.  No lights. Had he blew that stop he would have killed my husband.  My husband had the right of way.

Here is the thing.  Where I am at right now is that I honestly believe we are heading into being a fascist country.  Our leaders seem to be using a playbook that scares the crud out of me.  It should scare all of us.

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1 hour ago, ChrisL said:

The Geneva Protocol does not allow the use of chemical agents but it also doesn’t specifically specify is CS or non lethal gassed can be used.  The military has used CS gas in the past to quell violent protests and it was used to “smoke out” tunnels in Vietnam.  We had CS in our inventory but as a soldier I never deployed it and I was in several riots.  

I find this point interesting (against the Geneva Protocol) as chemical agents used as a form of non lethal interventionist has been in use for decades.

Please be careful with the labels here as not all police are fuckers just as not all protesters are rioters.  

Ever get hit in the head by a bottle? Ever have stones bounce off your shins?  Ever  have your leg bitten by a rioter? Yeah we gassed them, I guess I am a fucker and I’m good with it.

In 1993, nations could begin signing the U.N.'s Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC) that outlawed the use of riot control agents in warfare. Riot control agents under the convention are defined as, "Any chemical not listed in a Schedule, which can produce rapidly in humans sensory irritation or disabling physical effects which disappear within a short time following termination of exposure."

A database by the International Committee of the Red Cross shows the ban of riot control agents in war went into effect in 1997, but still made it legal for law enforcement use. The Senate approved the CWC in a 74-26 vote on April 25, 1997.

I agree with you that all police and rioters are not all some of the things they are called.

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40 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

In 1993, nations could begin signing the U.N.'s Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC) that outlawed the use of riot control agents in warfare. Riot control agents under the convention are defined as, "Any chemical not listed in a Schedule, which can produce rapidly in humans sensory irritation or disabling physical effects which disappear within a short time following termination of exposure."

A database by the International Committee of the Red Cross shows the ban of riot control agents in war went into effect in 1997, but still made it legal for law enforcement use. The Senate approved the CWC in a 74-26 vote on April 25, 1997.

I agree with you that all police and rioters are not all some of the things they are called.

I got out in 1987 and then 1991 after the 1st gulf war so yeah this was after my time.

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https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/breonna-taylor/2020/09/23/minute-by-minute-timeline-breonna-taylor-shooting/3467112001/?itm_medium=recirc&itm_source=taboola&itm_campaign=internal&itm_content=BelowArticleFeed-FeedRedesign

A bit more background material.  You may believe all of this or not.  It fits with the story by the two police officers who entered, one of them getting shot.  

It does provide background on the warrant and due process for why it was issued however and does not fit with the popular conception of the "facts".

 

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