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I may have a moral dilemma Monday


Scrapr

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Offers are coming in on the house. 15 showings yesterday, 8 today & at least 6 on Sunday. Have 4 offers in hand although I only know 2 price points. Listed the house at $415. Thinking it was a bit low but encourage lots of interest & a buyers frenzy. First offer is $440...$25k over asking. But....it's a reverse mortgage loan to fund. I had never heard of that to fund a new home. Just the regular long time HO starts running low on cash & gets a reverse mortgage to help w/cash flow. After reading a little this sort of looks legit. Buyer has to put about 50% down to cover the reverse mtg premium & closing costs. Buyer has to be over 62 & a couple other et ceteras. 

The only other offer I know the price is at $420k. Now why would this one offer be so much more? Well, it looks as if they are using the insurance company money for half of the  total. They don't have to pay anything other than utilities & property tax. They only have 50% at risk. Seems like an unlevel playing field

Do i Jerry McGuire it? Maybe I say i don't like your offer. you need to bump your offer. The home I purchased was $475.k So I am $35k from a break even (less fees & expenses)

Or say FU senior citizens & reverse mortgage people. I'm going to sell my house to this nice family with 2 little kids that will make memories here

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...even if it's a reverse mortgage to fund it, you don't carry any of the risk on that , do you ? Don't you walk away with the sales price minus commission and whatever other listing and bullshit fees you end up paying in the final agreement documents ? I think it's clearly a show me the money situation.  But I'm not there in person.  I sold the last house I had here (before this one), cheaper than I thought it was worth, because it got me completely free of the house, which I had been maintaining and renovated for my mother to live in.  She didn't like living alone in that house, jumped into a senior apartment situation here after a couple of years there.

 

By then I was happy to have it go away. :)

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Let them duke it out and play the game for the highest possible offer.  You are in the driver's seat here.

Unless you are already so rich that you can afford to be all kind and moral to just go for the nice family.

I think if this market holds, I might allow them all to go a gladiator match.  I am definitely not rich.

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3 hours ago, Airehead said:

If you can afford it make memories.

This is I want & what WoScrapr would want. I did not know the other pricing because it came in a tweet. Late last night broker sent me the full offers. A couple of "Love Letters".  A spread from $420 (heh, heh) to $445k.  Money is important but not over riding thought. And I could live with any of the prices. The move out is kind of important to me. I have to wait until Nov 10th for the seller of the Portland house to get out. She might go early but I can't plan on that. A couple of offers were flexible. A couple did not look at that part closely and wanted to take posession on Nov 11th. After googling I don't see kids in any of the picture. And only one Californian! 

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2 hours ago, Dirtyhip said:

Unless you are already so rich that you can afford to be all kind and moral to just go for the nice family.

I don't know that it is a questions of morals at all.   Money stresses are tough to deal with, and you just don't know what obstacles the future will hold.  Taking the highest offer will put you in a better position to deal with unknown problems that might arise. 

If the offers are pretty close, maybe you help the young couple.  Like DH said, if you know you have all the cash you are gonna need in the future and can afford to help the couple, then that is an option to consider.   Maybe the young couple has tons of cash, and you can help some charities more with a gift for people in immediate need, or help a senior family buy medicine or somesuch.

It is good to be in a position to help people.  I say take the higher offer, and thank the cosmos by donating to someone in a tighter spot who needs immediate help.  If you have the money, then you can control who it goes to and maybe guide a bit more on how it is spent.

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I know some people who were preferred to get a house from an old lady because they schmoozed her aboot raising their family there, etc. They moved oot after aboot a few years.  In their defense, they did have a robbery there so that probably was a big factor in moving.  No real point here other than you never know.

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11 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

I don't know that it is a questions of morals at all.   Money stresses are tough to deal with, and you just don't know what obstacles the future will hold.  Taking the highest offer will put you in a better position to deal with unknown problems that might arise. 

The moral dilemma for me is a societal thing. Do you give an advantage (free money) to a couple over another offer that worked hard & agonized over their offer? That particular couple was only in their house for 2 years & it appreciated $200k. Wow. IDK...maybe it was in rough shape & they fixed it up. But that is a lot of appreciation even for Bend

And then the over riding problem of making someone's dream come true & breaking several other family's heart. I am really going back & forth over them. Probably more offers tonight

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1 minute ago, Scrapr said:

The moral dilemma for me is a societal thing. Do you give an advantage (free money) to a couple over another offer that worked hard & agonized over their offer? That particular couple was only in their house for 2 years & it appreciated $200k. Wow. IDK...maybe it was in rough shape & they fixed it up. But that is a lot of appreciation even for Bend

And then the over riding problem of making someone's dream come true & breaking several other family's heart. I am really going back & forth over them. Probably more offers tonight

Yeah, I don't know if I gift that couple, they got their gift in appreciation already.  Take the highest real offer and buy some Christmas gifts for a poor family or 50 instead, I bet you will feel better about that overall.

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9 hours ago, Scrapr said:

Do i Jerry McGuire it?

This...   

I know how WoBG feels and I agree, but maybe not as vocal.   You may have missed my post in another thread.

At our closing WoBG met with our lawyer and our real estate agent first. We signed a LOT papers. Then the buyer arrived, and WoBG speaks up... "Show me the money!". OMG you could have heard a pin drop. Our lawyer, real estate agent and I just looked at her with WTF written all over our faces. After the closing I tell her, you can say that AFTER they sign all the paper work.

 

13 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

Do you give an advantage (free money) to a couple over another offer that worked hard & agonized over their offer?

Once we sold our home, that was it... it's not our home. 

We had 34+ years of memories at out old home.   You don't know what will happen for the people who agonized over the offer.  You could be doing them a favor by not selling them the home... maybe they really can't afford the home, and they would be living pay check to pay check and one problem (like a virus) could change things for them and they lose the home?

Bottom line... you get to choose.  

Me... I'll take the money.   

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With all the showings yesterday and today perhaps another will come along - but you can't rely on that. You are in a strong situation. This is a classic counter offer..."We are in a multiple offer situation, submit your highest and best offer by ... Wednesday/Thursday???"  Typically, it is a shorter period, such as 5PM next day or two, but you are also in the situation to contact the Realtors showing over weekend letting them know of the short time line if their client intends to make an offer. You don't have to take the "Highest" as "Best" will trump highest. For example, a lower cash offer - particularly if they wave inspections - is guaranteed to close where a mortgage offer may fall apart with mortgage ultimately not approved.

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1 hour ago, Tizeye said:

With all the showings yesterday and today perhaps another will come along - but you can't rely on that. You are in a strong situation. This is a classic counter offer..."We are in a multiple offer situation, submit your highest and best offer by ... Wednesday/Thursday???"  Typically, it is a shorter period, such as 5PM next day or two, but you are also in the situation to contact the Realtors showing over weekend letting them know of the short time line if their client intends to make an offer. You don't have to take the "Highest" as "Best" will trump highest. For example, a lower cash offer - particularly if they wave inspections - is guaranteed to close where a mortgage offer may fall apart with mortgage ultimately not approved.

Yeah I am not going back for another bite. ie; bump your offer. I might go back and ask for better terms. I told the Broker no escalator clause. Limit is Monday @ 3:00 pm. I am a bit surprised we don't have any cash offers. Broker says 3 or 4 more offers today. I saw a family this morning on the Ring. 2 little girls. My heart melted. An extra $25k is not a material amount for me. I almost think of it as a Pay it Forward thing. The seller on my Portland house had another offer $25k (I think) higher yet sold to me. It's kind of like the universe is speaking to me at that point

excuse me I have to go peeping Tom & watch the people walk through our home on the cameras

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5 minutes ago, Scrapr said:

Yeah I am not going back for another bite. ie; bump your offer. I might go back and ask for better terms. I told the Broker no escalator clause. Limit is Monday @ 3:00 pm. I am a bit surprised we don't have any cash offers. Broker says 3 or 4 more offers today. I saw a family this morning on the Ring. 2 little girls. My heart melted. An extra $25k is not a material amount for me. I almost think of it as a Pay it Forward thing. The seller on my Portland house had another offer $25k (I think) higher yet sold to me. It's kind of like the universe is speaking to me at that point

It's fun but can be stressful.  Try to enjoy it.  And best of luck to you @Scrapr

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11 minutes ago, Scrapr said:

Yeah I am not going back for another bite. ie; bump your offer. I might go back and ask for better terms. I told the Broker no escalator clause. Limit is Monday @ 3:00 pm. I am a bit surprised we don't have any cash offers. Broker says 3 or 4 more offers today. I saw a family this morning on the Ring. 2 little girls. My heart melted. An extra $25k is not a material amount for me. I almost think of it as a Pay it Forward thing. The seller on my Portland house had another offer $25k (I think) higher yet sold to me. It's kind of like the universe is speaking to me at that point

excuse me I have to go peeping Tom & watch the people walk through our home on the cameras

You are a good man.

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14 minutes ago, Scrapr said:

Yeah I am not going back for another bite. ie; bump your offer. I might go back and ask for better terms. I told the Broker no escalator clause. Limit is Monday @ 3:00 pm. I am a bit surprised we don't have any cash offers. Broker says 3 or 4 more offers today. I saw a family this morning on the Ring. 2 little girls. My heart melted. An extra $25k is not a material amount for me. I almost think of it as a Pay it Forward thing. The seller on my Portland house had another offer $25k (I think) higher yet sold to me. It's kind of like the universe is speaking to me at that point

excuse me I have to go peeping Tom & watch the people walk through our home on the cameras

I got one offer -- exactly one.  It was cash offer and 25K above the listing price -- and had an escalator clause.  But you know my terms.  I sit and wait.    

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 I don't think it's a moral question, but I can understand wanting a house you've loved to end up in "good hands".  After my Dad died, my Mom moved to an apartment in the same building as my sister.  It allowed her to have her independence, but my sister was an elevator away to help with shopping and chores.  My Mom would often comment how nice her neighbors were and  how they'd chat or help her with various things.  A few months after my Mom passed, the neighbors approached my sister about purchasing the apartment.  The woman's father had died, and they were looking for a place for her mother where she could keep her independence but be nearby. We had met the mother, and she was a lovely woman - if my Mom were alive, they'd have been good friends.

We knew what prior apartments in the building sold for, so we came up with a price that seemed reasonable.  We probably could have made more if we listed it, but this was an easy transaction and it just felt right.  We even included some furniture that my Mother loved but none of us had room for.

A few months after she moved in, the woman left the most lovely note on my sister's door  - about how peaceful the apartment is and how she loves sitting on the balcony enjoying the sunrises and the bird sounds  She mentioned how the furniture and the apartment was such a blessing to her during a difficult time. . It was the sweetest note and it just made us all feel good.

Good luck with the sale.  I suspect you'll know what you want to do when you see the offers.  Price is definitely important, but so are getting other terms you like and perhaps just feeling  "good" about the deal.

 

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49 minutes ago, Kirby said:

 I don't think it's a moral question, but I can understand wanting a house you've loved to end up in "good hands".  After my Dad died, my Mom moved to an apartment in the same building as my sister.  It allowed her to have her independence, but my sister was an elevator away to help with shopping and chores.  My Mom would often comment how nice her neighbors were and  how they'd chat or help her with various things.  A few months after my Mom passed, the neighbors approached my sister about purchasing the apartment.  The woman's father had died, and they were looking for a place for her mother where she could keep her independence but be nearby. We had met the mother, and she was a lovely woman - if my Mom were alive, they'd have been good friends.

We knew what prior apartments in the building sold for, so we came up with a price that seemed reasonable.  We probably could have made more if we listed it, but this was an easy transaction and it just felt right.  We even included some furniture that my Mother loved but none of us had room for.

A few months after she moved in, the woman left the most lovely note on my sister's door  - about how peaceful the apartment is and how she loves sitting on the balcony enjoying the sunrises and the bird sounds  She mentioned how the furniture and the apartment was such a blessing to her during a difficult time. . It was the sweetest note and it just made us all feel good.

Good luck with the sale.  I suspect you'll know what you want to do when you see the offers.  Price is definitely important, but so are getting other terms you like and perhaps just feeling  "good" about the deal.

 

I sold my Toronto condo to a divorced woman who worked as the director for non-profit organization that support women prisoners. They post a public annual report. The real estate agent acting for her...was also her son. No problem for any adult child looking out for best interests of their parent.

I did meet her.

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20 hours ago, Page Turner said:

...even if it's a reverse mortgage to fund it, you don't carry any of the risk on that , do you ? Don't you walk away with the sales price minus commission and whatever other listing and bullshit fees you end up paying in the final agreement documents ? I think it's clearly a show me the money situation.

This.

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Ok back home. Offer accepted. I celebrated w/ a Dandy's Drive in Burger. Grand Dandy & Onion rings

The recap:

About 30 visits. Several agents did a face time video showing. 13 offers ranging from $420-$445k.  About 5 or so people sent a personal letter. That really helped when looking through everything. If you just put a number down then all i can go on is numbers. It came down to essentially 3 offers. I took the lowest of the 3. They had a lowish offer (but still over asking. I asked if they could go up this afternoon & they went higher. Not quite as high as I would be thrilled with but still a nice offer. They were afraid it would not appraise. Which might be true. But they have enough down payment that they can probably get the appraisal waived. Their letter mentioned employment at a local dog supply manufacturer. They are world wide. By happenstance my back door neighbor works for them. And loves her. So that pretty well swung the decision. Somebody nice for the neighborhood

Back up offer #1 is an out of town couple that want to buy a home for their local daughter. And give them a base for some medical appointments. This is why the letter is helpful. 

Backup offer #2 is a man & fiance that have a small boy. He has missed on several homes here in town. And his offer was strong. Highest price

After signing to accept I had to sign ea offer to reject their offer. The doc is 11 pages times 12 (+1) equals at least an hour of initialing & signing. After 2+ hours in the chair i left. The agent was going to call each of the other agents & let them know the bad news. At least another hour

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29 minutes ago, Scrapr said:

Ok back home. Offer accepted. I celebrated w/ a Dandy's Drive in Burger. Grand Dandy & Onion rings

The recap:

About 30 visits. Several agents did a face time video showing. 13 offers ranging from $420-$445k.  About 5 or so people sent a personal letter. That really helped when looking through everything. If you just put a number down then all i can go on is numbers. It came down to essentially 3 offers. I took the lowest of the 3. They had a lowish offer (but still over asking. I asked if they could go up this afternoon & they went higher. Not quite as high as I would be thrilled with but still a nice offer. They were afraid it would not appraise. Which might be true. But they have enough down payment that they can probably get the appraisal waived. Their letter mentioned employment at a local dog supply manufacturer. They are world wide. By happenstance my back door neighbor works for them. And loves her. So that pretty well swung the decision. Somebody nice for the neighborhood

Back up offer #1 is an out of town couple that want to buy a home for their local daughter. And give them a base for some medical appointments. This is why the letter is helpful. 

Backup offer #2 is a man & fiance that have a small boy. He has missed on several homes here in town. And his offer was strong. Highest price

After signing to accept I had to sign ea offer to reject their offer. The doc is 11 pages times 12 (+1) equals at least an hour of initialing & signing. After 2+ hours in the chair i left. The agent was going to call each of the other agents & let them know the bad news. At least another hour

Good you sold to your satisfaction.

I've never heard of this letter situation.  To describe the reason why they wanted the house..

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13 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

Good you sold to your satisfaction.

I've never heard of this letter situation.  To describe the reason why they wanted the house..

It's fairly common in a hot market. A little bit about yourself & why you want into the city/house. The agent called it a 'Love'  letter. Hoping the seller will fall in love with you & your offer. There was one letter that fell a bit flat. She was trying to tug on my heartstrings. She didn't quite hit it right

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1 hour ago, shootingstar said:

I've never heard of this letter situation.  To describe the reason why they wanted the house..

 

58 minutes ago, Scrapr said:

It's fairly common in a hot market. A little bit about yourself & why you want into the city/house. The agent called it a 'Love'  letter. Hoping the seller will fall in love with you & your offer. There was one letter that fell a bit flat. She was trying to tug on my heartstrings. She didn't quite hit it right

It can work the other way.  I had one offer and one letter. I took the offer because it was the only want that hit my 'hopeful' aspirations.  In fact it was the only offer to come in during the offer period where multiple offers can come in.  But the letter was a the biggest farce I read.  Told me how they wanted to build a garden and about the spirit of the walls or some other crap.  I knew immediately it was written by some creative writing clown working for the firm.  I mean it talked about a garden of all things -- and the location of that house makes it impossible for a garden and the soil is crap to do so.  Honestly, it was after that blanket letter was read that I started to get paranoid -- because it was so far off and attempted to emotionally manipulate me that it made me think what else these folks were up to -- like coming in $25 grand above asking price to screw me in the end.  But after running the offer by two different real estate agents and a mortgage attorney that all said if I can get past the investigation/inspection period that it was a solid offer, I accepted.  But it does keep me up at night wondering how this LLC can screw me.  Fortunately the only way they can get me is if they found out I lied about something in the house and if I omitted anything, it wasn't intentional and certainly if it was a big issue, I'd have disclosed it.  But that creepy letter still has my radar up.

I hope I'm wrong.  I really, really hope that.  That letter sent me into a cloud of doubt.  But at this point, I think the gamble was worth it (I hope).  In 3 or 4 days I should get my answer.

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11 hours ago, Scrapr said:

It's fairly common in a hot market. A little bit about yourself & why you want into the city/house. The agent called it a 'Love'  letter. Hoping the seller will fall in love with you & your offer.

We never got any letters.  That was probably a good thing.   Me...   I'd be soooooo skeptical about anything they would write, it probably who hurt their chances.  The more BS, the more I'd dislike the buyer.   I'm glad we never go any letters.

So I'm back to WoBG's criteria for selling....   Show me the money!       

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17 minutes ago, Dottles said:

How long did it take you to get your place prepared to sell @Scrapr?  Did you hire help?

Well I have been going to the thrift store regularly for about a year. I donated WoScraprs clothes about 2 months ago. And that seemed to flip a switch in my mind. I had decided to sell back in May. I changed the landscaping in April/May. The house was painted about a year ago. But for actually getting it show ready about 2 weeks. Clearing the shelves, taking down the pictures. I had a cleaning woman in the day before the house hit the market. Windows done about a month before. So I hired help & did some myself

we sold the big house 4 years ago & really got rid of a lot of stuff. That took about 2 months or more of some work. So getting this house ready to sell I just remember what we did a couple years ago. If I still had both houses it would be overwhelming. 

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Our junior wife has been house hunting for months in this market, and it's been super difficult.  She can't afford much, can't afford a bidding war.  So we've been working this market from buyers perspective.  I hadn't even considered it's not so cut an dried for the sellers, either.

You're a good person to think about who before how much.  It makes a difference for your neighbors.  Before we moved, the people next door used to take care of this house for the little old lady who lived here.  Herr kids couldn't be bothered.  When the old lady died, she left the house to the neighbors.  They felt bad, gave it to the kids - who sold it to a drug dealer.  Oops.  So they were thrilled when we finally moved in.  When the neighbors passed away, their kids used the lesson learned, and sold the house to a young couple who didn't offer the highest price.  We now have the most fantastice family living next door, and Mary and Jim must be ecstatic to see who is living in their house.

I don't know that we'll ever be the ones selling this house, but with all that's gone into the home, I hope it gets sold to people, not money, too

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He is a good person to consider who lives there. But what happens if he only had one buyer? What if he got a letter he didn't like or maybe didn't get one it all? What if the letter was complete BS? We all know how to write persuasive letters.

I know you are just calling out scrapr for being a good soul. I and others agree. But sometimes it's hard to distinguish good and bad. My wife told me most folks don't even think about that and just sell to the highest bidder -- and she's right.

I'm a very thoughtful person and all it does is screw me. 

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1 hour ago, Dottles said:

He is a good person to consider who lives there. But what happens if he only had one buyer? What if he got a letter he didn't like or maybe didn't get one it all? What if the letter was complete BS? We all know how to write persuasive letters.

I know you are just calling out scrapr for being a good soul. I and others agree. But sometimes it's hard to distinguish good and bad. My wife told me most folks don't even think about that and just sell to the highest bidder -- and she's right.

I'm a very thoughtful person and all it does is screw me. 

If you have only one offer & it's in the range you take it & don't look back. Even if the letter is complete BS. The one letter was a 30ish year old woman. Lived with a guy for 5 years, get married, finds out he is a cheating SOB & exits this year. She talked to Realtor about why I'm selling. So she wove Grandma dying and her grief into the letter. She was playing me. But she has a 3 year old Golden Retriever. So that pushed her up. In the final ranking she was #5

The buyers did write a well crafted letter. It stood out to me. That's a skill

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I would have taken the highest offer.  Interesting, that seems so obvious to me.  

I last sold a house in the summer of 2017.  Unexpectedly (market was not nearly as heated up as it is now) received a full price offer as soon as the house showed up on MLS.  Got a letter from the potential buyer "hoping you'll accept our full price offer"...LOL, hell yeah, that's why I listed it.  I didn't realize that it's a "thing" to write a letter to the seller.  I thought it was silly then...still do.  To me it's a business transaction.

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2 minutes ago, Goat Geddah said:

I would have taken the highest offer.  Interesting, that seems so obvious to me.  

I last sold a house in the summer of 2017.  Unexpectedly (market was not nearly as heated up as it is now) received a full price offer as soon as the house showed up on MLS.  Got a letter from the potential buyer "hoping you'll accept our full price offer"...LOL, hell yeah, that's why I listed it.  I didn't realize that it's a "thing" to write a letter to the seller.  I thought it was silly then...still do.  To me it's a business transaction.

I'm apparently way out of touch as well.  The last thing I want to do is deal with folks buying my home. That's what the real estate agent is for.  Find me the best buyer, and please don't make me meet them - before, during, or after the closing.

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12 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

I'm apparently way out of touch as well.  The last thing I want to do is deal with folks buying my home. That's what the real estate agent is for.  Find me the best buyer, and please don't make me meet them - before, during, or after the closing.

My buyers offered me football tickets, am autograph of a championship banner plus some other stuff. I'm interested in some Ruffwear gear too. If it defaults to backup offer #1 I'm going to ask for Olympic cycling swag

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