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So if this is the forum of mainly old, white guys -- how old do I have to be?

Dottleshead

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Dottleshead Flahute

Dottleshead ★

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14 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

Are you trying to kick up a storm?

Well that's easy to do in this forum.  Real easy.  But no.  I'm just getting older and I wonder at what point one is officially accepted into the group?  And since nobody is boss (well SW is -- but not in opinions about old white guys) how and who determines this?  It seems like it status quo thing... in which case I offer that as long as RE is here -- we're all good.

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maddmaxx Flahute

maddmaxx ★

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6 hours ago, Dottles said:

Well that's easy to do in this forum.  Real easy.  But no.  I'm just getting older and I wonder at what point one is officially accepted into the group?  And since nobody is boss (well SW is -- but not in opinions about old white guys) how and who determines this?  It seems like it status quo thing... in which case I offer that as long as RE is here -- we're all good.

If it weren't for RE you'd still be the newbie.

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goldendesign Baroudeur

goldendesign

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My family on my father's side has claimed Cherokee blood for generations. Older sister even got some scholarship money, though, in hindsight she's adopted, so don't ask how that worked out. 

Anyways, according to one of those genealogy things, we're all flavors of United Kingdom with a token percentage of Norwegian. 

So for "white" yes. Old? I got a ways to go. Got a few years until I hit 40. I'm still young in body, age, and mind. Most days

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2 hours ago, goldendesign said:

My family on my father's side has claimed Cherokee blood for generations. Older sister even got some scholarship money, though, in hindsight she's adopted, so don't ask how that worked out. 

Anyways, according to one of those genealogy things, we're all flavors of United Kingdom with a token percentage of Norwegian. 

So for "white" yes. Old? I got a ways to go. Got a few years until I hit 40. I'm still young in body, age, and mind. Most days

Is your sister Elizabeth Warren?

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MickinMD KOM / QOM

MickinMD ★

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On 11/20/2020 at 9:56 PM, Dottles said:

... and do mullatos qualify? 

Everyone qualifies.  Even us mixed-Europeans.  My Italian-American college advisor used to ask, "What do you get when you cross a Pollack with an Irishman?  Mickey!"

That would draw a laugh for some reason.  His mother had the same maiden name as his father so I used to warn people to beware this child of incest.  It was all in good teasing fun - I don't know if that happens anymore.

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Razors Edge Flahute

Razors Edge ★

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On 11/21/2020 at 9:31 PM, Prophet Zacharia said:

My mother’s family traces back to Scotland on the first boat to Jamestown, then through the Carolinas and into Texas.

But I’m pretty white. But shy of 50 still..... 

That's what? A dozen generations? Maybe even 15 or more?  So one of the 8,000 (to 50,000!) folks in your mom's direct line going back to Jamestown was Scottish?  What about the other many thousands???

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Razors Edge Flahute

Razors Edge ★

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Just now, Kzoo said:

Duh.  They were 'mericans.  

Back then I guess pretty much everyone got in.  All white folks, though?  Seems amazing!  Jamestown was pretty early, so of the 8,000 ancestors (at least) of his MOTHER, only 1 was in the in Jamestown.  The rest, presumably were in all the other places of the world - perhaps Native American or Central Americans. Likely many, many Europeans, but also possibly from around the Mediterranean or up into the Russia. Maybe Africa or Asia!  8,000 folks - all lily white - is a tough order to fulfill, even in 1600.

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Prophet Zacharia KOM / QOM

Prophet Zacharia

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31 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Back then I guess pretty much everyone got in.  All white folks, though?  Seems amazing!  Jamestown was pretty early, so of the 8,000 ancestors (at least) of his MOTHER, only 1 was in the in Jamestown.  The rest, presumably were in all the other places of the world - perhaps Native American or Central Americans. Likely many, many Europeans, but also possibly from around the Mediterranean or up into the Russia. Maybe Africa or Asia!  8,000 folks - all lily white - is a tough order to fulfill, even in 1600.

I guess you don’t understand the meaning of the words “but” and “pretty”. 

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shootingstar KOM / QOM

shootingstar

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The whitest part of me that has never gotten any sun exposure is...still more light golden than dearie.  It surprised me.

I honestly thought I could be "white"...even untanned.  But no, the genetic colour warm tint is all over, even untanned.  I am probably seen as a banana by some Asian folks overseas, white inside, yellow-golden outside.

With age, it becomes increasingly noticeable....comparing whites vs. mixed vs. 100% Asian in skin tone, etc.

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Zealot Domestique

Zealot

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7 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

The whitest part of me that has never gotten any sun exposure is...still more light golden than dearie.  It surprised me.

I honestly thought I could be "white"...even untanned.  But no, the genetic colour warm tint is all over,

Is ‘being white’ a goal?  Something you’d aspire to? If so, why?

You know, the true beauty of humanity is the diversity of our color, our culture, our selves.  Inside, we all bleed red.   😊 

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shootingstar KOM / QOM

shootingstar

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11 minutes ago, Zealot said:

Is ‘being white’ a goal?  Something you’d aspire to? If so, why?

You know, the true beauty of humanity is the diversity of our color, our culture, our selves.  Inside, we all bleed red.   😊 

No, I never aspired, Zealot.  It's just an observation. There's a reason why I don't colour my hair at all: solid black is beautiful.  None of my sisters coincidentally have done it either.  But the perceived pressure to colour for at least "youth", is there ...or at least try a different colour just for sake of variety /fun....because black hair rarely changes colour naturally from babyhood until one turns grey.

Unfortunately society in North America for models, movie stars and mass media advertising, prefers Asian women that look closer to "white"  ....meaning slim nose, bigger eyes (that's why some Asian chicks load their eyes with lots of mascara because many don't have long natural lashes, etc.), etc.  In Japan and Korea there's ALOT of advertising pitched to Asian women to lighten their skin...can be makeup or other processes.  I visited there ....so it's real. 

Aside, from racial features, the pressure to be "white"  is expressed in  resumes, workplace:  to whiten one's resume is safest.  Would employers want to know my volunteer in social racial justice and equity issues?  Nah, too radical/upsetting/rabble-rousing.  It's more real than one could believe.  If I spoke engrish...I would be made fun of.  I did speak "engrish" when I was learning English as child in Canada.

It must be nice to joke abit about colour, identity and race.  For me, I can do it..temporarily.

but with covid and anti-Asian behaviour in past few months that have been reported in the press.....racial identity becomes something to live with. 

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ChrisL KOM / QOM

ChrisL

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12 minutes ago, Zealot said:

Is ‘being white’ a goal?  Something you’d aspire to? If so, why?

You know, the true beauty of humanity is the diversity of our color, our culture, our selves.  Inside, we all bleed red.   😊 

I don’t know if being white was a “goal” for us but being of mixed heritage we associated more with the white side. We grew up culturally Dutch, spoke Dutch but are brown, not white.   So basically we were brown people living white.  But my kids are white but see themselves as brown????

Go figure...

 

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Zealot Domestique

Zealot

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30 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

No, I never aspired, Zealot.  It's just an observation. There's a reason why I don't colour my hair at all: solid black is beautiful.  None of my sisters coincidentally have done it either.  But the perceived pressure to colour for at least "youth", is there ...or at least try a different colour just for sake of variety /fun....because black hair rarely changes colour naturally from babyhood until one turns grey.

Unfortunately society in North America for models, movie stars and mass media advertising, prefers Asian women that look closer to "white"  ....meaning slim nose, bigger eyes (that's why some Asian chicks load their eyes with lots of mascara because many don't have long natural lashes, etc.), etc.  In Japan and Korea there's ALOT of advertising pitched to Asian women to lighten their skin...can be makeup or other processes.  I visited there ....so it's real. 

Aside, from racial features, the pressure to be "white"  is expressed in  resumes, workplace:  to whiten one's resume is safest.  Would employers want to know my volunteer in social racial justice and equity issues?  Nah, too radical/upsetting/rabble-rousing.  It's more real than one could believe.  If I spoke engrish...I would be made fun of.  I did speak "engrish" when I was learning English as child in Canada.

It must be nice to joke abit about colour, identity and race.  For me, I can do it..temporarily.

but with covid and anti-Asian behaviour in past few months that have been reported in the press.....racial identity becomes something to live with. 

I don’t joke about color.  And I love the differences.  It is sad that so many feel it a pressure to be as you’ve spoken here. I suppose it works that way no matter where one lives.  

When my daughter started school she was the only white girl in her class. She’d come home upset because some would  tease her. But mostly the other kids were curious about her. She’d Ask me why she was different; why her skin and hair wasn’t like the other kids. And I’d explain that God loves the beauty of our differences. And express to her that we’re all beautiful.   

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Zealot Domestique

Zealot

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11 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

I don’t know if being white was a “goal” for us but being of mixed heritage we associated more with the white side. We grew up culturally Dutch, spoke Dutch but are brown, not white.   So basically we were brown people living white.  But my kids are white but see themselves as brown????

Go figure...

 

I like your kids!  😊 

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shootingstar KOM / QOM

shootingstar

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24 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

I don’t know if being white was a “goal” for us but being of mixed heritage we associated more with the white side. We grew up culturally Dutch, spoke Dutch but are brown, not white.   So basically we were brown people living white.  But my kids are white but see themselves as brown????

Go figure...

 

Your kids view themselves that way?  Did they eat alot of Indonesian food/meet their grandmother, your relatives on your side?

For my oldest niece, she clearly identifies to the world....to the open Internet, that she is mixed with a Chinese descent mother. Because her mother died after she became an adult, it's easier for anyone in her situation, not to feel entirely white.  On her own, she's done alot of reading about Chinese-Canadian history, etc.  which I'm glad she wants to do it.  The sooner a mixed person, does it in life, the easier it is for them to ask questions of relatives who are still alive to pass on more family history details, experiences.  It's a shame to discover this history in your 60's, 70's and the a family members are no longer alive to get info.

Niece and her brother also, have known us...their aunts and uncle since they were babies. Some of us did some babysitting too. They also knew their Chinese grandparents and have met /see our extended Chinese relatives in Toronto. 

My niece writes rom-coms specifically on English-speaking Asian descent couples and also interracial couples --white-Chinese.  She does not plan to do black-white...she wants to be able to write authentically from her combined heritage/family lines.  After all, in novel writing it's also replicating cross-cultural dialogue and behaviours which she has done. She often uses Toronto as the multicultural/dynamic backdrop in her novels. :)  There ARE some great things living in a large city. And there are references to Asian cuisine.

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LoneWolf Baroudeur

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Heck, this Dutch-American heritage white boy is probably a young'un by forum standards (47). And they haven't kicked me out yet.

But I welcome everybody.  Skin color, gender, etc. Everyone has something to contribute. And I have something to learn from everyone.

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ChrisL KOM / QOM

ChrisL

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6 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

Your kids view themselves that way?  Did they eat alot of Indonesian food/meet their grandmother, your relatives on your side?

For my oldest niece, she clearly identifies to the world....to the open Internet, that she is mixed with a Chinese descent mother. Because her mother died after she became an adult, it's easier for anyone in her situation, not to feel entirely white.  On her own, she's done alot of reading about Chinese-Canadian history, etc.  which I'm glad she wants to do it.  The sooner a mixed person, does it in life, the easier it is for them to ask questions of relatives who are still alive to pass on more family history details, experiences.  It's a shame to discover this history in your 60's, 70's and the a family members are no longer alive to get info.

Niece and her brother also, have known us...their aunts and uncle since they were babies. Some of us did some babysitting too. They also knew their Chinese grandparents and have met /see our extended Chinese relatives in Toronto. 

My niece writes rom-coms specifically on English-speaking Asian descent couples and also interracial couples --white-Chinese.  She does not plan to do black-white...she wants to be able to write authentically from her combined heritage/family lines.  After all, in novel writing it's also replicating cross-cultural dialogue and behaviours which she has done. She often uses Toronto as the multicultural/dynamic backdrop in her novels. :)  There ARE some great things living in a large city. And there are references to Asian cuisine.

My kids grew up close to my mom and so were there a lot, probably 2-3 times a week average as opposed to seeing my wife’s family 1-2 times a year.. My wife’s family lives 3,000 miles away so   they clearly associate more with me & my side of the family than my wife’s side. 

But they are 3/4 white, are white yet see themselves as brown.

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Zealot Domestique

Zealot

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6 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

My kids grew up close to my mom and so were there a lot, probably 2-3 times a week average as opposed to seeing my wife’s family 1-2 times a year.. My wife’s family lives 3,000 miles away so   they clearly associate more with me & my side of the family than my wife’s side. 

But they are 3/4 white, are white yet see themselves as brown.

If I were you, I’d encourage them to learn of and embrace their ancestries form both sides.  

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ChrisL KOM / QOM

ChrisL

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2 minutes ago, Zealot said:

If I were you, I’d encourage them to learn of and embrace their ancestries form both sides.  

Yeah the problem with that is my wife is a hodge podge of euro. They really don’t have a cultural identity other than they are Virginians.  Being recent immigrants we have a strong cultural identity so My kids call themselves “Indo’s”.   I would often remind them they are 1/2 Indo and they would say nope, were Indo. My wife actually doesn’t care and really doesn’t know her cultural heritage.  

Shoot if you asked my wife her race she’d say Indo as she’s been with me & my family decades longer than her own family. Often times we eat at an Asian restaurant or we are in an Asian market and she’s the only white person there.

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Zealot Domestique

Zealot

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12 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

Shoot if you asked my wife her race she’d say Indo as she’s been with me & my family decades longer than her own family. Often times we eat at an Asian restaurant or we are in an Asian market and she’s the only white person there.

I had an Asian/American friend in the military who loved to foray into Chinatown regularly. She’d ask me to go and of course I was always up for it.  It was usually pretty noticeable that I was different. 😉 But no one ever treated me as if I shouldn’t be there. I’m sure that there was the polite acceptance of me as a tourist, but I always had a good time. 

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ChrisL KOM / QOM

ChrisL

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2 hours ago, Zealot said:

I had an Asian/American friend in the military who loved to foray into Chinatown regularly. She’d ask me to go and of course I was always up for it.  It was usually pretty noticeable that I was different. 😉 But no one ever treated me as if I shouldn’t be there. I’m sure that there was the polite acceptance of me as a tourist, but I always had a good time. 

My wife has never had an issue in an Asian place either. They are usually delighted to see a white person.  There is an Indo restaurant & market nearby and she often gets asked by the proprietor if she’s Indo as she knows & likes the food and she just replies no I just married one! 

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shootingstar KOM / QOM

shootingstar

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3 hours ago, ChrisL said:

My kids grew up close to my mom and so were there a lot, probably 2-3 times a week average as opposed to seeing my wife’s family 1-2 times a year.. My wife’s family lives 3,000 miles away so   they clearly associate more with me & my side of the family than my wife’s side. 

But they are 3/4 white, are white yet see themselves as brown.

Isn't your daughter married to a South Asian American?...just relying on dim memory.

If yes, then grandbaby will have....3 facets of identity whichever one s/he wants to adapt seamlessly, depending on social situation... life can be lots of fun.

Eldest niece would like to visit Hawai'i....where there's lots of mixed Asian descent (as well as different geology since her formal background is geological engineering, she can identify certain rocks, etc.).... or like former Prez Obama.

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ChrisL KOM / QOM

ChrisL

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5 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

Isn't your daughter married to a South Asian American?...just relying on dim memory.

If yes, then grandbaby will have....3 facets of identity whichever one s/he wants to adapt seamlessly, depending on social situation... life can be lots of fun.

Eldest niece would like to visit Hawai'i....where there's lots of mixed Asian descent (as well as different geology since her formal background is geological engineering, she can identify certain rocks, etc.).... or like former Prez Obama.

Close, his dad is Indian (from India not Native American) & his mom is white.  His parents have similar skin tones & hair color as my wife & I but I think as there is more white in me my daughter has lighter complexion & brown hair not black. 

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Zealot Domestique

Zealot

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13 hours ago, shootingstar said:

There's a reason why I don't colour my hair at all: solid black is beautiful.  None of my sisters coincidentally have done it either.  But the perceived pressure to colour for at least "youth", is there ...or at least try a different colour just for sake of variety /fun....because black hair rarely changes colour naturally from babyhood until one turns grey.

I was laughing at myself after I read this the first time.  My hair is naturally very dark - not raven black, just a brown/black color.  When I was younger, I wanted it to be raven black.  But in my 30’s the gray started coming.  I’ve had one of those ‘angel kisses’ since youth, but when it started expanding, it made me look like a skunk: 😂 

30A43B38-DAEE-4F00-9E6E-BA44013C2D7D.thumb.jpeg.5003521e7b4ff80bbc218756e7bbc060.jpeg

 

People often asked me if I did that on purpose. I was like, “really?  Someone would do that on purpose?!”  😉 

I had to renew my drivers license this year and fill out some background clearance info for my job.  When asked color of hair, I wasn’t sure what to write. So I wrote ‘gray’... 

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Rattlecan Domestique

Rattlecan ★

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My lineage is 100% Swiss Mennonite on both sides. My ancestors left Switzerland and settled in Lancaster County PA in the 17th century. The move to Ontario was in the 19th century.

My brother researched our ancestry and I have a huge binder full of the results. 

Guess that makes me  inbred  purebred Swiss, so totally white. I got the old part covered at 67.

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Razors Edge Flahute

Razors Edge ★

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18 hours ago, ChrisL said:

They really don’t have a cultural identity other than they are Virginians.

You have some good kids!  :)

But my answer is and will simply remain "American" to any and all questions of my origination.  Color or race remain bullshit questions. I can get "ethnicity" or "birthplace/country of birth" sorts of questions to help something like the census understand trends or for schools to reveal areas of strength/weakness in serving all communities.  Still, I "look" white, but with countless lines of genetic code coming from a line of people going back millennia, I'm a mutt of many hues/shades/variations.  I enjoy that my "white" as the driven snow brother, in just a SINGLE generation, is now a proud father of two half-white, half-asian kids.  If his sons marry two white gals, will the eventual grandkids be "white" again? If they marry asian gals, will the grandkids be asians and not white?

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