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must doesn't mean shall


bikeman564™

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13 minutes ago, bikeman564™ said:

No, (never watched her) but throughoot my career "shall" was/is the term used for a mandatory requirement. I just find it interesting.

Codes have legal weight when authorities adopt and enforce a given code. I'd go as far as saying that the boiler code has done more to influence codes use and adoption than any other.

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On 12/2/2020 at 7:22 AM, bikeman564™ said:

;)

https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/plain_language/articles/mandatory/

This is interesting. Because ASME uses "shall" in the boiler code.

HA!  Bruce is my neighbor and I've met him before (and also worked tangentially with him).  I agree and mildly disagree with his response, but "must" is the more "plain English" way to say something is mandatory, so it makes sense.  My one quibble would be confusing legal with plain especially in regards to things like the US Constitution.  Reading Article 1 (or really any part) of the Constitution rapidly shows how "shall" means "must" for quite a bit of the foundations of America's laws.  One easy way to see that is how the word "must" appears ZERO times in the US Constitution. The word "shall" appears about THREE HUNDRED times.

Go ahead and read this brief excerpt and see that is we act like shall does NOT mean mandatory, you really go sideways VERY quickly.

Article I

Section 1: Congress

All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.

Section 2: The House of Representatives

The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every second Year by the People of the several States, and the Electors in each State shall have the Qualifications requisite for Electors of the most numerous Branch of the State Legislature.

No Person shall be a Representative who shall not have attained to the Age of twenty five Years, and been seven Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State in which he shall be chosen.

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1 hour ago, Razors Edge said:

HA!  Bruce is my neighbor and I've met him before (and also worked tangentially with him).  I agree and mildly disagree with his response, but "must" is the more "plain English" way to say something is mandatory, so it makes sense.  My one quibble would be confusing legal with plain especially in regards to things like the US Constitution.  Reading Article 1 (or really any part) of the Constitution rapidly shows how "shall" means "must" for quite a bit of the foundations of America's laws.  One easy way to see that is how the word "must" appears ZERO times in the US Constitution. The word "shall" appears about THREE HUNDRED times.

Go ahead and read this brief excerpt and see that is we act like shall does NOT mean mandatory, you really go sideways VERY quickly.

Article I

Section 1: Congress

All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.

Section 2: The House of Representatives

The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every second Year by the People of the several States, and the Electors in each State shall have the Qualifications requisite for Electors of the most numerous Branch of the State Legislature.

No Person shall be a Representative who shall not have attained to the Age of twenty five Years, and been seven Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State in which he shall be chosen.

Interesting. Is the Constitution "law" in itself? I venture to say it is a foundation for law, one which laws are created upon.

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