Where are you in the vaccine line

[Kzoo]

9 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

I think that's a lot of "perception" and not a lot of "reality".  Even the readily referenced 1976 vaccination remains inconclusively "disastrous" but maybe your deeper knowledge of disastrous vaccines includes some I am unaware of.

Again, I'm not Mr Vaccine.  I'll get my COVID shot when the time comes but will be late in process.  What I find is this seems to be like people's fear of flying (you can die, but you won't, but you MIGHT, so maybe it is dangerous!) versus a really well thought out argument for or against a vaccine. 

My point would be "what's your recommendation for proper amount of testing?"  If rushed is 9 months, what's "normal"? What's "overkill"? What's "optimal"?  Do you have some sense of what the proper speed should be and what the best set of tests should be?

I don't have a recommendation but I understand why some might be skeptical.  And yes, I personally know someone who contracted Guillain-Barre symptom from the 1976 vaccine and was luckily enough to live through it (unlike many).  He wasn't lucky enough to not be permanently disabled for life from it.

 

[Razors Edge ★]

9 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

I don't have a recommendation but I understand why some might be skeptical.  And yes, I personally know someone who contracted Guillain-Barre symptom from the 1976 vaccine and was luckily enough to live through it (unlike many).  He wasn't lucky enough to not be permanently disabled for life from it.

Just as I knew folks who died in car crashes and helicopter crashes.  Risks are everywhere, and I agree folks ought to minimize them as reasonable. If there are substantial worries or troubling revelations that start cropping up from these various COVID vaccines, we should definitely pay attention to them and act accordingly.  At this point, it remains 250,000 dead from COVID, zero injured from the vaccine.  We'll see how it plays out, and I don't have a decision point until April at the earliest.

[maddmaxx ★]

54 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

We might be able to get SW's spot? 

It seems, to me at least, that folks who get a vaccination (or the two shots for some) can really then just wash their hands of the COVID nonsense altogether.  Gone are any and all restrictions in place - if the vaccine prevents innocculated folks from being carriers/spreaders too - so one would thing anti-maskers would be FIRST to want it, not last.  I like the idea of being immune to the measles, mumps, rubella, tetanus, etc., and am looking forward to the same with COVID. The sooner I can sit down to a pleasant meal in a restaurant and not give a shit at all about anyone else in the room is GREAT.  Trips to the doctor or dentist suck in the best of times, but when you are safe from a potentially  life altering or ending infection, it becomes that much less awful.  And being able to visit loved ones if they happen to be in a hospital - without risk to them or me seems like a nice benefit.

And, as a side note, we have a guy on our team - works in OKC - who had COVID in April.  He has it AGAIN now.  On the plus side, he says the first time was way worse, but even so, he has been sidelined for several days this time.

You're looking for something that won't happen for quite a while.  No one knows how long the vaccine is good for before it wears out.  There will be large numbers of people who won't get vaccinated until they are forced to.  No one knows if vaccinated people can still be carriers or not.  I'm thinking that we might get back to half or three quarter  occupancy indoor dining by the end of 2021.

[maddmaxx ★]

Just now, maddmaxx said:

You're looking for something that won't happen for quite a while.  No one knows how long the vaccine is good for before it wears out.  There will be large numbers of people who won't get vaccinated until they are forced to.  No one knows if vaccinated people can still be carriers or not.  I'm thinking that we might get back to half or three quarter  occupancy indoor dining by the end of 2021.  We have fallen a long way behind during 2020.

 

[Razors Edge ★]

1 minute ago, maddmaxx said:

No one knows if vaccinated people can still be carriers or not.  I'm thinking that we might get back to half or three quarter  occupancy indoor dining by the end of 2021.

Maxx - I am coming from the personal perspective, not a societal perspective.  The length of "protection" given by the vaccine will, by the time I get it, have at LEAST 6 months of known potential duration - ie folks who got it in the studies and then at the beginning will be a large enough sample to see if they are still protected when I finally receive my shot(s).  Likewise, in that time, the carriers or not will be ascertained (but it's irrelevant to me).  So, MY stress and worry - once vaccinated - will be ZERO and I will freely travel, eat out, wander in public areas, etc. without ANY FEAR of contracting COVID.  That's huge.  Whether the guy walking past me is likewise protected is really immaterial to me and it's his funeral, not mine.  Likewise, proof of vaccination will likely also open up the world again to the folks who want that sort of thing.

So, yes, from a societal and herd immunity standpoint, this will take time, but from a "RE has immunity" standpoint, it's now in the countdown to normalcy.

[maddmaxx ★]

17 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Maxx - I am coming from the personal perspective, not a societal perspective.  The length of "protection" given by the vaccine will, by the time I get it, have at LEAST 6 months of known potential duration - ie folks who got it in the studies and then at the beginning will be a large enough sample to see if they are still protected when I finally receive my shot(s).  Likewise, in that time, the carriers or not will be ascertained (but it's irrelevant to me).  So, MY stress and worry - once vaccinated - will be ZERO and I will freely travel, eat out, wander in public areas, etc. without ANY FEAR of contracting COVID.  That's huge.  Whether the guy walking past me is likewise protected is really immaterial to me and it's his funeral, not mine.  Likewise, proof of vaccination will likely also open up the world again to the folks who want that sort of thing.

So, yes, from a societal and herd immunity standpoint, this will take time, but from a "RE has immunity" standpoint, it's now in the countdown to normalcy.

You know that the vaccine does not impart 100% protection as far as they know at this time.  Those test subjects that got covid after vaccination seemed to have a milder illness as opposed to the death in a hospital type.  It is still unknown whether or not the potential side effects are prevented or not.  It will be a long time before you can run down the street clicking your heels on your way to the movie theater to sit with random people.

Don't burn your masks.

The vaccine will probably keep you from dying.  Great news.  Not the second coming.

[Ralphie ★]

2 hours ago, Tizeye said:

Been there, done that.

I was in the first group immunized when the polio vaccine was created after my father died of polio, and my cousin a year older than me who lived a block away survived polio be spent several years in an iron lung. My earliest memory is of the Health Dept, with lack of knowleged on transmission, needlessly quarantining me where I couldn't leave the home/yard. Little was known of the vaccine - and thankfully I didn't get the live batch from the poor manufacturing safeguards of the 50's that impacted California. With the improvements over the years, also had to take the 'latest and greatest', like the sugar cube application rather than injection or skin scratch.

I didn't grow a third arm from my forehead.

Yet!

[Tizeye]

2 hours ago, Philander Seabury said:

Yet!

There is always hope. Just think of the payday!

[Scrapr ★]

The time between between the start of vaccinations & Full vaccinations is going to be messy. The anti vaxers are going to walk among the Vax people & claim they had the vaccination. Perhaps we should implant a chip at the same time the vaccination is done. Then monitors throughout the country to "prove" you are safe  

#sarcasm

#don'tkillthemessenger

[Razors Edge ★]

8 minutes ago, Scrapr said:

The anti vaxers are going to walk among the Vax people & claim they had the vaccination.

I'm thinking proof of vaccination is going to open up doors far more than folks think who don't want it.  Want your kid back in day care school? Show their vaccine record. Want a job at this plant? Show your vaccine record.  Want to board this flight? Show your vaccine record.  Want to visit Canada/Hawaii/Bahamas/Japan? Show your vaccine record.  On and on the list can go.  I remember in college, during an outbreak of something or other (mumps?), if you couldn't show you had been vaccinated, then you couldn't go to class. A trip to the university health clinic made the vaccine freely available, so there was no problem for folks who didn't have the records handy (or were unvaccinated).

[12string]

8 hours ago, Tizeye said:

The anti-maskers rallying cry has morphed to anti-vax.

This is something that the doctors have expresses much concern over.  They are already fighting anti vaxxers.  Now, the official face of the people we elected to keep us safe tell us the doctors are stupid, they lie to us, don't believe them, it's all a hoax to control you...............

Add the change in attitudes created by this insane tactic to the effects of COVID.  But this part of it will continue killing people for years, and the number will be immeasurable.

[MickinMD ★]

70 and diabetes puts me 18th per 100 people with 23,000,000 nationwide ahead of me.

If I go back to teaching, I'd be 11th in line.  Despite the fact that 45% of teachers are over 50 and lots of kids are bound to be asymptomatic and in-their-faces and with close proximity to at least 140 of them per day in places where in-school instruction is being held (my nephew's school is still doing so(, they'll get screwed over as usual.

[Square Wheels]

6 hours ago, Kzoo said:

There is herd immunity and herd mentality.  Which do you fall into?

There are real world issues with all vaccines.  All vaccines have side effects in some, and in some they are disastrous.  In previous vaccines that have been rushed to market those real world issues were disastrous several months down the road.  We now have 3 effective examples of vaccines that have been developed using transport technology (rDNA) that has never been used before that have been both developed and tested in spans of time that have never been seen before.  Step right up and roll up your sleeve.

Nearly half of the people polled in the US have said they are not interested in taking the chance on the vaccine at this time.  Why is this position somehow less than or less noble than the alternative?

We have people that won't touch a piece of meat because someone might have fed a cow some growth hormones, or they won't eat a piece of wheat bread because it might have been genetically modified, but they will be first in line to have someone stick a needle in their arm and inject them with stuff someone else says is safe (trust me).

 

What he said.

[MickinMD ★]

Of every 100 people in my county, I'm 18th at 70 with diabetes.  36,900  people in my county and 23,000,000 Americans are ahead of me.

If I go back to teaching, I'd be 11th in line.

[Square Wheels]

This vaccine was created in record time.

I'm not sure yet, but I might take m chances.

[maddmaxx ★]

2 hours ago, Scrapr said:

The time between between the start of vaccinations & Full vaccinations is going to be messy. The anti vaxers are going to walk among the Vax people & claim they had the vaccination. Perhaps we should implant a chip at the same time the vaccination is done. Then monitors throughout the country to "prove" you are safe  

#sarcasm

#don'tkillthemessenger

I like the idea.

And I don't feel bad about liking it.

[maddmaxx ★]

Ladies and gents, place your bets.  Are you in more danger from cv19 or from vaccine side effects.  You pays your money and you take your chances.  That's the wager.

 

At least that's all there is once you strip away all politics.

[Ralphie ★]

4 hours ago, Square Wheels said:

In previous vaccines that have been rushed to market those real world issues were disastrous several months down the road. 

?

[Forum Administrator]

This upsets me. COVID is running rampant in corrections facilities. It's so bad in Ohio that they leave institutions out of the calculations for risk because it would skew the data.  People who are incarcerated need to be higher on the list.