Best states to retire.

[Mr. Silly]

Texas sucks but New Jersey sucks more.

https://wallethub.com/edu/best-and-worst-states-to-retire/18592

[Parsnip Totin Jack ★]

Ohio has a suckiness about it too. But that was just my experience, it works well for a lot of people. I’m not going back.

[shootingstar]

55 minutes ago, Mr. Silly said:

Texas sucks but New Jersey sucks more.

https://wallethub.com/edu/best-and-worst-states-to-retire/18592

Maybe someone can explain what criteria would health care be used to influence the rating?  The type of hospitals, health care options or?

I'm asking because in Canada, with the exception of living in the Arctic territories, where one has to be flown to southern CAnada for surgery, it would be living not too far from teaching/major hospitals, given our geographic spread.  The best specialty treatment in Canada by far...are several teaching hospitals in each of the bigger Canadian cities over 1 million.  However the problem in those cities, might be trying to find a family doctor...because alot of family doctors want to live and work in/near major Canadian cities.  

I know I'm giving this opinion but it's based on the type of surgeries and cancer care my extended family has had over the decades. I'm also heavily inlfuenced with several health care professionals in the family and where they seek care on behalf for family members. My family have received great medical care for their specialized problems over the years...which I know would be expensive in the U.S. or paying higher monthly premiums.

[Bikeguy]

One thing I like about Illinois...  I paid $0 in State income tax this year.    

I don't want to talk about the real estate tax bill I get to pay in the summer.   

[dinneR ★]

28 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

Maybe someone can explain what criteria would health care be used to influence the rating?  The type of hospitals, health care options or?

I'm asking because in Canada, with the exception of living in the Arctic territories, where one has to be flown to southern CAnada for surgery, it would be living not too far from teaching/major hospitals, given our geographic spread.  The best specialty treatment in Canada by far...are several teaching hospitals in each of the bigger Canadian cities over 1 million.  However the problem in those cities, might be trying to find a family doctor...because alot of family doctors want to live and work in/near major Canadian cities.  

I know I'm giving this opinion but it's based on the type of surgeries and cancer care my extended family has had over the decades. I'm also heavily inlfuenced with several health care professionals in the family and where they seek care on behalf for family members. My family have received great medical care for their specialized problems over the years...which I know would be expensive in the U.S. or paying higher monthly premiums.

Their methodology is posted at the bottom of the article.

Health Care – Total Points: 30

COVID-19 Positive Testing Rate in the Past Week: Triple Weight (~3.60 Points)

COVID-19 Death Rate in the Past Week: Triple Weight (~3.60 Points)

Family Medicine Physicians per Capita: Double Weight (~2.40 Points)

Dentists per Capita: Full Weight (~1.20 Points)

Nurses per Capita: Full Weight (~1.20 Points)

Home Health Aides per Capita: Full Weight (~1.20 Points)
Note: Home health aides often help older adults who need assistance. In some states, home health aides may be able to give a client medication or check the client’s vital signs under the direction of a nurse or other healthcare practitioner.

Share of Geriatricians Required to Meet Estimated Need (Geriatrician Shortfall): Double Weight (~2.40 Points)

Top-Rated Geriatrics Hospitals: Double Weight (~2.40 Points)

Health-Care Facilities per Capita: Full Weight (~1.20 Points)

Quality of Public Hospitals: Full Weight (~1.20 Points)
Note: This metric is based on Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services’ ranking of public hospitals.

Well-Being Index for Population Aged 55 and Older: Full Weight (~1.20 Points)

Share of Population Aged 65 and Older with Good or Better Health: Full Weight (~1.20 Points)

Share of Population Aged 65 and Older with Poor Mental Health: Full Weight (~1.20 Points)
Note: This metric refers to the share of the population age 65 and older who reported their mental health was not good 14 or more days in the past 30 days.

Share of Population Aged 65 and Older with a Disability: Full Weight (~1.20 Points)

Share of Population Aged 65 and Older Who Are Physically Active: Half Weight (~0.60 Points)

Share of Population Aged 65 and Older Who Are Obese: Half Weight (~0.60 Points)

Share of Population Aged 65 and Older with Inadequate Sleep: Full Weight (~1.20 Points)
Note: This metric refers to the share of adults age 65 and older who reported sleeping fewer than seven hours in a 24-hour period on average.

Life Expectancy: Full Weight (~1.20 Points)

Death Rate for Population Aged 65 & Older: Full Weight (~1.20 Points)

 

[dinneR ★]

31 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

My family have received great medical care for their specialized problems over the years...which I know would be expensive in the U.S. or paying higher monthly premiums.

How do you know this? Have compared the costs?

[shootingstar]

28 minutes ago, dennis said:

How do you know this? Have compared the costs?

It is based on the care they received.  The "cost" in Canada is different here, Dennis.  Not all drugs are covered /or discounted...but generally speaking as a paitent, one is not paying out of pocket costs if one gets day surgery or overnight in hospital in the province where we live.  

For instance, my dearie has seen his opthamologist 4 times in last 2.5 years.  He is set to get cataract surgery probably within next 12 months. I suspect if there's a "cost", it would be eye drops.  He won't be paying for checkups by opthamologist.

He received a heart stent last yr. which is day surgery.  He is on blood thinners.  The drug he takes is covered partially by his former employer's health care benefit that he pays a premimum monthly as a retiree. No, he does not pay out of pocket for visits to cardiologist.  

My grand nephew who died last yr....at 3 yrs. old had brain cancer starting when he was 1 yr. old. He was in the hospital several times..per month. He also had major brain surgery. Was there a fee?  No.  However the parents had to pay for his wheelchair, etc.  His care went on for 2 yrs. Some times he was in hospital for a wk. or so at a time. 

I just to want to say a Canadian woman giving birth in a Canadian hospital in the province where she lives, just staying for 1-2 days in hospital, will not cost anything or not much at all...except for additional drugs. Not sure how different it would be for premature baby.  

And I had a father who received excellent care when he had prostate cancer.  He had it for 8 yrs., controlled by shots, etc. before he died in pallative care where he was for 4 months. (which we didn't have to pay of out pocket)

Sure, Canadians pay higher income tax (that's what Americans keep on telling me), but there is a reason for this.  I'm willing to pay, so it saves myself and many people from financial distress/lack of health care. 

 

 

[Kzoo]

3 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

It is based on the care they received.  The "cost" in Canada is different here, Dennis.  Not all drugs are covered /or discounted...but generally speaking as a paitent, one is not paying out of pocket costs if one gets day surgery or overnight in hospital in the province where we live.  

For instance, my dearie has seen his opthamologist 4 times in last 2.5 years.  He is set to get cataract surgery probably within next 12 months. I suspect if there's a "cost", it would be eye drops.  He won't be paying for checkups by opthamologist.

He received a heart stent last yr. which is day surgery.  He is on blood thinners.  The drug he takes is covered partially by his former employer's health care benefit that he pays a premimum monthly as a retiree. No, he does not pay out of pocket for visits to cardiologist.  

My grand nephew who died last yr....at 3 yrs. old had brain cancer starting when he was 1 yr. old. He was in the hospital several times..per month. He also had major brain surgery. Was there a fee?  No.  However the parents had to pay for his wheelchair, etc.  His care went on for 2 yrs. Some times he was in hospital for a wk. or so at a time. 

I just to want to say a Canadian woman giving birth in a Canadian hospital in the province where she lives, just staying for 1-2 days in hospital, will not cost anything or not much at all...except for additional drugs. 

And I had a father who received excellent care when he had prostate cancer.  He had it for 8 yrs. before he died in pallative care where he was for 4 months. (which we didn't have to pay of out pocket)

Sure, Candians pay higher income tax (that's what Americans keep on telling me), but there is a reason for this.  I'm willing to pay, so it saves myself and many people from financial distress/lack of health care. 

 

You said a lot of words but I don't think you answered his question.

 

[JerrySTL ★]

29 minutes ago, Bikeguy said:

One thing I like about Illinois...  I paid $0 in State income tax this year.    

I don't want to talk about the real estate tax bill I get to pay in the summer.   

I got back $500 from Illinois. About the only thing going for Illinois is it doesn't tax most retirement income but there is talk of changing that.

[shootingstar]

24 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

You said a lot of words but I don't think you answered his question.

 

I haven't compare costs...if it was too much, I would have been approached to help out financially. I've approached to help out for education, mortgage by family. Never for health care. I have NEVER heard my extended family members bitching about cost of health care.

My grand nephew who died was treated for rare type of brain cancer....he was treated at Canada's largest and lead  pediatric medical research hospital: Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto.  I truly mean how important it is to live near key research /teaching hospitals to get specialized care or access to specialized areas of medicine...especially when you get alot older.  So when I hear stories of retirees choosing move and live in rural areas hundreds of kms. away...nope. Not a good idea.  Unless you want to pay for air fare plus hotel stays for family member who accompanies you.

Do remember it's a bit easier to consider early retirement in Canada,  because of our health care cost differences vs. U.S.

 

[dinneR ★]

9 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

It is based on the care they received.  The "cost" in Canada is different here, Dennis.  Not all drugs are covered /or discounted...but generally speaking as a paitent, one is not paying out of pocket costs if one gets day surgery or overnight in hospital in the province where we live.  

For instance, my dearie has seen his opthamologist 4 times in last 2.5 years.  He is set to get cataract surgery probably within next 12 months. I suspect if there's a "cost", it would be eye drops.  He won't be paying for checkups by opthamologist.

He received a heart stent last yr. which is day surgery.  He is on blood thinners.  The drug he takes is covered partially by his former employer's health care benefit that he pays a premimum monthly as a retiree. No, he does not pay out of pocket for visits to cardiologist.  

My grand nephew who died last yr....at 3 yrs. old had brain cancer starting when he was 1 yr. old. He was in the hospital several times..per month. He also had major brain surgery. Was there a fee?  No.  However the parents had to pay for his wheelchair, etc.  His care went on for 2 yrs. Some times he was in hospital for a wk. or so at a time. 

I just to want to say a Canadian woman giving birth in a Canadian hospital in the province where she lives, just staying for 1-2 days in hospital, will not cost anything or not much at all...except for additional drugs. Not sure how different it would be for premature baby.  

And I had a father who received excellent care when he had prostate cancer.  He had it for 8 yrs., controlled by shots, etc. before he died in pallative care where he was for 4 months. (which we didn't have to pay of out pocket)

Sure, Canadians pay higher income tax (that's what Americans keep on telling me), but there is a reason for this.  I'm willing to pay, so it saves myself and many people from financial distress/lack of health care. 

 

 

You didn't actually compare anything. You just listed a bunch of medical procedures people had.

A comparison would be I bought a Snickers at the grocery store and it was $1. Then I bought a Snickers at a convenience store and it was $1.25. The convenience store is a more expensive place to buy a Snickers.

[shootingstar]

17 minutes ago, JerrySTL said:

I got back $500 from Illinois. About the only thing going for Illinois is it doesn't tax most retirement income but there is talk of changing that.

We get taxed especially if one's income exceeds over a threshold and the threshold is low. But there are other  public services that balance out all this.

[dinneR ★]

4 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

I haven't compare costs...if it was too much, I would have been approached to help out financially. I've approached to help out for education, mortgage by family. Never for health care. I have NEVER heard my extended family members bitching about cost of health care.

My grand nephew who died was treated for rare type of brain cancer....he was treated at Canada's largest and lead  pediatric medical research hospital: Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto.  I truly mean how important it is to live near key research /teaching hospitals to get specialized care.  So when I hear stories of retirees choosing move and live in rural areas hundreds of kms. away...nope. Not a good idea.

Do remember it's a bit easier to consider early retirement in Canada,  because of our health care cost differences vs. U.S.

 

You said these things would be more expensive in the U.S., but provide no evidence. How do you know it would be more expensive?

Just listing medical procedures does not further your argument. People get medical care here too. 

[shootingstar]

24 minutes ago, dennis said:

You said these things would be more expensive in the U.S., but provide no evidence. How do you know it would be more expensive?

Just listing medical procedures does not further your argument. People get medical care here too. 

Because we, the patient doesn't pay directly for huge chucks of  medical care itself.  Seeing a doctor or a doctor specialist does not incur an out of pocket cost. The exception would be wheelchairs/assistive devices, certain drugs that aren't on a provincial govn't drug list, dental care, allied health care, staying in a hospital more than 1-2 days, etc.

The way how this works is the federal government transfers a ton of money to each province for health care.  Then it's up to each provincial govn't health ministry to allocate the money accordingly to hospitals, set base fee schedule for doctors, etc.  The doctors track the patient visits and all sorts of other stuff....there's a set intern fee per that they  recoup from province govn't. Hence, that's part of the doctor's pay.

I have less sympathy for Canadians who bitch about lack of care or waiting in line for several hrs...when it's only a sniffle and they don't want to wait until next day to see their family doctor at the office.  You'll get good emergency care for sure if you've in a vehicle accident, get poisoned, gunshot, in labour to deliver a baby, etc.  

[ChrisL]

32 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

It is based on the care they received.  The "cost" in Canada is different here, Dennis.  Not all drugs are covered /or discounted...but generally speaking as a paitent, one is not paying out of pocket costs if one gets day surgery or overnight in hospital in the province where we live.  

For instance, my dearie has seen his opthamologist 4 times in last 2.5 years.  He is set to get cataract surgery probably within next 12 months. I suspect if there's a "cost", it would be eye drops.  He won't be paying for checkups by opthamologist.

He received a heart stent last yr. which is day surgery.  He is on blood thinners.  The drug he takes is covered partially by his former employer's health care benefit that he pays a premimum monthly as a retiree. No, he does not pay out of pocket for visits to cardiologist.  

My grand nephew who died last yr....at 3 yrs. old had brain cancer starting when he was 1 yr. old. He was in the hospital several times..per month. He also had major brain surgery. Was there a fee?  No.  However the parents had to pay for his wheelchair, etc.  His care went on for 2 yrs. Some times he was in hospital for a wk. or so at a time. 

I just to want to say a Canadian woman giving birth in a Canadian hospital in the province where she lives, just staying for 1-2 days in hospital, will not cost anything or not much at all...except for additional drugs. Not sure how different it would be for premature baby.  

And I had a father who received excellent care when he had prostate cancer.  He had it for 8 yrs., controlled by shots, etc. before he died in pallative care where he was for 4 months. (which we didn't have to pay of out pocket)

Sure, Canadians pay higher income tax (that's what Americans keep on telling me), but there is a reason for this.  I'm willing to pay, so it saves myself and many people from financial distress/lack of health care. 

 

 

The big wildcard in the states is how much your employer contributes towards medical. All employers have to offer it but some really take care of their people.  I pay a fraction of what I was paying for premiums, visits & RX’s compared to previous jobs I had.  

My employer also matches up to 30% to my HSA. So a procedure, visit or something as simple as an extra pair of glasses could be covered 100% by my employer contributions. 

I would think somewhere someone has averaged out medical costs nationally but there are many factors that could determine cost here in the states and they do vary greatly.   

[ChrisL]

16 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

Because we, the patient doesn't pay directly for huge chucks of  medical care itself.  Seeing a doctor or a doctor specialist does not incur an out of pocket cost. The exception would be wheelchairs/assistive devices, certain drugs that aren't on a provincial govn't drug list, dental care, allied health care, staying in a hospital more than 1-2 days, etc.

The way how this works is the federal government transfers a ton of money to each province for health care.  Then it's up to each provincial govn't health ministry to allocate the money accordingly to hospitals, set base fee schedule for doctors, etc.  The doctors track the patient visits and all sorts of other stuff....there's a set amount per visit and it's recouped from province govn't. Hence, that's part of the doctor's pay.

To my earlier point, many of my visits are covered 100% by my plan. Some of the ancillary costs could be put on my HSA which my employer has contributed several thousand dollars to this point.  It would have to be a sizable expense for me to have to use any of “my” money to healthcare.

 Yes I pay a monthly premium but I believe Canadians also pay into their healthcare too right.  But to my point earlier costs can vary widely based on how much an employer contributes towards the medical plan.

[dinneR ★]

17 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

Because we, the patient doesn't pay directly for huge chucks of  medical care itself.  Seeing a doctor or a doctor specialist does not incur an out of pocket cost. The exception would be wheelchairs/assistive devices, certain drugs that aren't on a provincial govn't drug list, dental care, allied health care, staying in a hospital more than 1-2 days, etc.

The way how this works is the federal government transfers a ton of money to each province for health care.  Then it's up to each provincial govn't health ministry to allocate the money accordingly to hospitals, set base fee schedule for doctors, etc.  The doctors track the patient visits and all sorts of other stuff....there's a set intern fee per that they  recoup from province govn't. Hence, that's part of the doctor's pay.

I have less sympathy for Canadians who bitch about lack of care or waiting in line for several hrs...when it's only a sniffle and they don't want to wait until next day to see their family doctor at the office.  You'll get good emergency care for sure if you've in a vehicle accident, get poisoned, gunshot, in labour to deliver a baby, etc.  

I don't think you understand the basic concept of comparison. If a Canadian paid $1000/year in taxes to fund healthcare and never saw a doctor, their cost would be high. If they had cancer and that $1000 paid for the entirety of their treatment, then $1000 would inexpensive. 

I had a colonoscopy last year. My out of pocket cost was $7. My insurance is paid for by employer and they contribute $100/month to my HSA so technically I paid nothing out of pocket.

Comparing out health care costs in an equal way is very complicated.

[ChrisL]

2 hours ago, Mr. Silly said:

Texas sucks but New Jersey sucks more.

https://wallethub.com/edu/best-and-worst-states-to-retire/18592

I thought CA would be towards the bottom  based on cost of living in many of the metro areas. We are about mid pack...

[shootingstar]

26 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

The big wildcard in the states is how much your employer contributes towards medical. All employers have to offer it but some really take care of their people.  I pay a fraction of what I was paying for premiums, visits & RX’s compared to previous jobs I had.  

My employer also matches up to 30% to my HSA. So a procedure, visit or something as simple as an extra pair of glasses could be covered 100% by my employer contributions. 

I would think somewhere someone has averaged out medical costs nationally but there are many factors that could determine cost here in the states and they do vary greatly.   

You and family are lucky at this time...when you're employed.

Maybe If I can propose a seemingly ridiculous idea...if an American pregnant mother needs to deliver her baby in hospital, I propose that the American health system be adjusted so that she received hospital care without out of pocket costs for at least 1-2 days from birth to leaving hospital.  Now, this will address some redneck Americans who don't want more non-white, non-English speaking folks (whom some mistaken for foreigners / refugees, which some of us get tired of hearing the racist whining) who want more native born Americans.  You know promote natural population growth without immigration, right? 

[ChrisL]

1 minute ago, dennis said:

I don't think you understand the basic concept of comparison. If a Canadian paid $1000/year in taxes to fund healthcare and never saw a doctor, their cost would be high. If they had cancer and that $1000 paid for the entirety of their treatment, then $1000 would inexpensive. 

I had a colonoscopy last year. My out of pocket cost was $7. My insurance is paid for by employer and they contribute $100/month to my HSA so technically I paid nothing out of pocket.

Comparing out health care costs in an equal way is very complicated.

A more concise version of what I said! 😁

[shootingstar]

19 minutes ago, dennis said:

I don't think you understand the basic concept of comparison. If a Canadian paid $1000/year in taxes to fund healthcare and never saw a doctor, their cost would be high. If they had cancer and that $1000 paid for the entirety of their treatment, then $1000 would inexpensive. 

I had a colonoscopy last year. My out of pocket cost was $7. My insurance is paid for by employer and they contribute $100/month to my HSA so technically I paid nothing out of pocket.

Comparing out health care costs in an equal way is very complicated.

Sure. I know there were years where I never saw a doctor ..and now I've seen a doctor more often in the past decade.  The cost, balances out long-term, dennis. Yes, it's the much older folks who are more "costly" to the health care system.

Now, some people who get picky, scream, why should I pay more taxes if I hardly get sick  vs. someone else??? My response:  Dude, you're an idiot. You're arrogrant. You're just as mortal and weak. Just you wait and see when you're over 75 or over 85 yrs. old. Or if you get into unexpected car /bike/boating accident.

[ChrisL]

2 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

You and family are lucky at this time...when you're employed.

Maybe If I can propose a seemingly ridiculous idea...if an American pregnant mother needs to deliver her baby in hospital, I propose that the American health system be adjusted so that she received hospital care without out of pocket costs for at least 1-2 days from birth to leaving hospital.  Now, this will address some redneck Americans who don't want more non-white, non-English speaking folks (whom some mistaken for foreigners / refugees, which some of us get tired of hearing the whining) who want more native born Americans.  You know promote natural population growth without immigration, right? 

Well if an undocumented mother with no medical insurance walked into an ER due to labor she would pay nothing as the state would pick up the costs of her birth.  An out of work white citizen with no coverage would have a similar experience.  I had many employees at a previous employer forego company medical & just use the emergency services that the state pays for. 

To Dennis’ point I don’t think you know our system well enough and are making some broad assumptions.

 

[shootingstar]

12 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

Well if an undocumented mother with no medical insurance walked into an ER due to labor she would pay nothing as the state would pick up the costs of her birth.  An out of work white citizen with no coverage would have a similar experience.  I had many employees at a previous employer forego company medical & just use the emergency services that the state pays for. 

To Dennis’ point I don’t think you know our system well enough and are making some broad assumptions.

 

For sure. But I still wouldn't want to retire in the U.S. to check out your system.  Too late. I did consider once upon a time ...when I interviewed for a job in California.

I personally heard enough complaints from Canadians who lived and worked full time in the U.S., dealing with the co-pays and detailed billing.  

[shootingstar]

15 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

Well if an undocumented mother with no medical insurance walked into an ER due to labor she would pay nothing as the state would pick up the costs of her birth.  An out of work white citizen with no coverage would have a similar experience.  I had many employees at a previous employer forego company medical & just use the emergency services that the state pays for. 

To Dennis’ point I don’t think you know our system well enough and are making some broad assumptions.

 

So it's getting services under emergency services. Hmmm.

No, that's not our system. Seeing a medical doctor specialist unless you are bleeding/dying....means getting a referral from family doctor and then booking appointment to see specialist.  I got my colonoscopy..no charge.

[ChrisL]

1 minute ago, shootingstar said:

For sure. But I still wouldn't want to retire in the U.S. to check out your system.  Too late. I did consider once upon a time ...when I interviewed for a job in California.

I personally heard enough complaints from Canadians who lived and worked full time in the U.S., dealing with the co-pays and detailed billing.  

Sure, to each their own.  But what Dennis & I are getting at is that medical costs can vary widely in the states based on your employers plan.   Some are even offered into retirement. 

[maddmaxx ★]

Well, look at that.  You'd have to be a fool to retire in CT.

[ChrisL]

1 minute ago, shootingstar said:

So it's getting services under emergency services. Hmmm.

No, that's not our system. Seeing a medical doctor specialist unless you are bleeding/dying....means getting a referral from family doctor and then booking appointment to see specialist.  I got my colonoscopy..no charge.

There are many loopholes here where the states are burdened with medical costs of the uninsured.   That’s also part of the whole illegal immigration debate but probably best we not go there...

[dinneR ★]

4 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

So it's getting services under emergency services. Hmmm.

No, that's not our system. Seeing a medical doctor specialist unless you are bleeding/dying....means getting a referral from family doctor and then booking appointment to see specialist.  I got my colonoscopy..no charge.

It's not ER, just regular delivery.

So our colonoscopies cost the same out of pocket and I did not pay any health care taxes so it's cheaper here.

 

[MickinMD ★]

Maryland always ranks toward the bottom in these things despite always being ranked as in the top 10 for Quality of Life and very high for Health Care.

The affordability is always in the bottom ten, but for most Marylanders that's after a lifetime working in the highest average income state in the USA where a majority own their own homes at retirement and the property taxes are less than 1% in most locations and there's no separate school tax, garbage collection tax, etc.  If you're financially prepared for retirement and paid off your mortgage, it's not an expensive place to live and the high property values make it easy to move elsewhere during retirement.  Of course, if you're not financially prepared at retirement, you might want to move to states with lower housing costs: I have some relatives who retired to Delaware for that reason.

As Rose (Janet Leigh) says (1:25 to 1:40 into the train scene below) in the Marchurian Candidate, "Nonetheless, Maryland is a beautiful state."

 

[shootingstar]

12 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

Sure, to each their own.  But what Dennis & I are getting at is that medical costs can vary widely in the states based on your employers plan.   Some are even offered into retirement. 

My most basic point is:  Good, even great medical care is provided ....regardless of whether or not a Canadian has an employer's health care benefit. My father got...nothing from his employer, a restaurant.

Still he got great medical care and same for mother for...6 children she gave birth. My parents didn't have to be refugees to get that care. Or do other things to ie. like be in lineup at emergency medical services...latter is never recommended unless it's a true emergency. But people abuse that right...

[ChrisL]

7 minutes ago, dennis said:

It's not ER, just regular delivery.

So our colonoscopies cost the same out of pocket and I did not pay any health care taxes so it's cheaper here.

 

Right, one of the loopholes... An expecting mother without insurance can walk into an ER and deliver.  It’s not necessarily an emergency procedure but a means of gaming the system.   

[Tizeye]

41 minutes ago, dennis said:

You said these things would be more expensive in the U.S., but provide no evidence. How do you know it would be more expensive?

Just listing medical procedures does not further your argument. People get medical care here too. 

While not Canada, but for reference...

Switzerland, you can't afford the Real Estate. A 2000 sq ft house - even multi family condo units - are easily $1M, and if you want a garage with that, add another $100,000. But medical, that's a different issue. Not Government "socialized" like France, GB, Canada, Germany and others. Individual insurance, more like Affordable care act with mandate. But it works. Now for medical costs. Daughter's hospital bill for unplanned C-Section and 3 days post surgery plus newborn cam to a total of around $9000. Yes, that was he entire medical bill, including doctors. Insurance paid 100% of it. Also mandated and 100% covered was pre-natal care and nutritional suppliments. Post natal was also covered with 17 HOME VISITS by a pediatric nurse practioner who reviewed progress and related coaching - breast feeding issues, etc. That is not even offered in the States.

I wish I could retire to Switzerland...but housing cost rules it out. Neighboring France might be feasible as medical is covered, but the housing, less expensive but still $700k.

I sometimes wonder how Coppi1 adjusted with his longer term plan to retire to France but bought the farm in a Slavic country as a stepping stone to that goal.

[dinneR ★]

CO and MT look good to me. 

[Tizeye]

Florida has no Income tax! Unfortunately all the retirees moving here ruined it. As a multi-generation native Floridian...potentially dating back to the 1740's, I am considering moving out. I just don't know where I would go.

[dinneR ★]

3 minutes ago, Tizeye said:

While not Canada, but for reference...

Switzerland, you can't afford the Real Estate. A 2000 sq ft house - even multi family condo units - are easily $1M, and if you want a garage with that, add another $100,000. But medical, that's a different issue. Not Government "socialized" like France, GB, Canada, Germany and others. Individual insurance, more like Affordable care act with mandate. But it works. Now for medical costs. Daughter's hospital bill for unplanned C-Section and 3 days post surgery plus newborn cam to a total of around $9000. Yes, that was he entire medical bill, including doctors. Insurance paid 100% of it. Also mandated and 100% covered was pre-natal care and nutritional suppliments. Post natal was also covered with 17 HOME VISITS by a pediatric nurse practioner who reviewed progress and related coaching - breast feeding issues, etc. That is not even offered in the States.

I wish I could retire to Switzerland...but housing cost rules it out. Neighboring France might be feasible as medical is covered, but the housing, less expensive but still $700k.

I sometimes wonder how Coppi1 adjusted with his longer term plan to retire to France but bought the farm in a Slavic country as a stepping stone to that goal.

Housing costs here are crazy too. $3.8 mil is the current median. I'm on the waiting list for an affordable.

[ChrisL]

8 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

My most basic point is:  Good, even great medical care is provided ....regardless of whether or not a Canadian has an employer's health care benefit. My father got...nothing from his employer, a restaurant.

Still he got great medical care and same for mother for...6 children she gave birth. My parents didn't have to be refugees to get that care. Or do other things to ie. like be in lineup at emergency medical services...latter is never recommended unless it's a true emergency. But people abuse that right...

Sure, I’m not debating that. What I’m saying is when comparing costs of medical in the states it varies greatly.  

Making broad statements of medical costs or that Americans pay more than Canadiens isn’t necessarily true.  I think Dennis & I and many others, could argue Canadians pay more as our employers cover much of the premiums, costs of visits and contribute to HSA’s for ancillary costs not covered by the plan. Indigent people with no job & no insurance can also receive some level of care cost free.  

But yes, medical is also very expensive to certain segments of our population. 

[shootingstar]

14 minutes ago, Tizeye said:

Florida has no Income tax! Unfortunately all the retirees moving here ruined it. As a multi-generation native Floridian...potentially dating back to the 1740's, I am considering moving out. I just don't know where I would go.

What bugs you the most as a native Floridian?  How have the retirees ruined it? Not paying their share or?

[ChrisL]

2 minutes ago, Tizeye said:

Florida has no Income tax! Unfortunately all the retirees moving here ruined it. As a multi-generation native Floridian...potentially dating back to the 1740's, I am considering moving out. I just don't know where I would go.

Well you can take my FIL’s place. He was already retired but recently moved to FL from NC!  

[dinneR ★]

5 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

Sure, I’m not debating that. What I’m saying is when comparing costs of medical in the states it varies greatly.  

Making broad statements of medical costs or that Americans pay more than Canadiens isn’t necessarily true.  I think Dennis & I and many others, could argue Canadians pay more as our employers cover much of the premiums, costs of visits and contribute to HSA’s for ancillary costs not covered by the plan. Indigent people with no job & no insurance can also receive some level of care cost free.  

But yes, medical is also very expensive to certain segments of our population. 

I agree with Chris. Our health care is not one size fits all. It's not perfect. @shootingstaryou don't seem to fully understand it and as such should back off your judgmental approach to it.

I don't think I have had any out of pocket medical costs in the last five or ten years. Honestly, I can't remember the last time I paid out of pocket for medical, dental, or eye care. My glasses were $900 and I paid zero out of pocket. 

[shootingstar]

34 minutes ago, dennis said:

I agree with Chris. Our health care is not one size fits all. It's not perfect. @shootingstaryou don't seem to fully understand it and as such should back off your judgmental approach to it.

I don't think I have had any out of pocket medical costs in the last five or ten years. Honestly, I can't remember the last time I paid out of pocket for medical, dental, or eye care. My glasses were $900 and I paid zero out of pocket. 

I never said our system was perfect. I said it earlier in this thread on allied health care:  Prescription glasses, dental and allied health care services (physiotherapy, podiatry, etc.) are not covered by the public health care system for any Canadian. One either relies on a employer health care benefit (which is not a mandatory requirement of employers except for paying monthly workers' compensation premium for injured employees) or get nothing from employer.  So it's paying in full.  

I'm certain my sister (who is a hospital pharmacist and knows about the government listed drugs for discount) will be inquiring her son on costs, who will live in California soon after accepting a full-time job there.  She probably won't get much of an answer for awhile, because he's young, healthy and fit.

For sure, one doesn't have to "game" the Canadian health care system to get "free" services. You just show your provincial health care number and govn't ID.  Regardless of your income level. My mother got the same level of specialist medical care from opthamologist for her eye surgery, as for dearie.  No payment to the physician..in 2 different provinces.

The govn't ID is proof of your provincial govern't health authority residency, citizenship or landed immigrant status.  I guess I do have an opinion...after living and getting medical care in 3 different provinces over the years.  I've also been unemployed also but still paid my income taxes.  So I know what that's like also. There IS a universal health care experience across Canada....I will truly vouch for this.

[dinneR ★]

20 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

I never said our system was perfect. I said it earlier in this thread on allied health care:  Prescription glasses, dental and allied health care services (physiotherapy, podiatry, etc.) are not covered by the public health care system for any Canadian. One either relies on a employer health care benefit (which is not a mandatory requirement of employers except for paying monthly workers' compensation premium for injured employees) or get nothing from employer.  So it's paying in full.  

I'm certain my sister (who is a hospital pharmacist and knows about the government listed drugs for discount) will be inquiring her son on costs, who will live in California soon after accepting a full-time job there.  She probably won't get much of an answer for awhile, because he's young, healthy and fit.

For sure, one doesn't have to "game" the Canadian health care system to get "free" services. You just show your provincial health care number and govn't ID.  Regardless of your income level. My mother got the same level of specialist medical care from opthamologist for her eye surgery, as for dearie.  No payment to the physician..in 2 different provinces.

The govn't ID is proof of your provincial govern't health authority residency, citizenship or landed immigrant status.  I guess I do have an opinion...after living and getting medical care in 3 different provinces over the years.

So using your comparison system, my healthcare costs are less than yours. The quality of care I have received is outstanding. You should really stop judging something you don't fully understand. 

[ChrisL]

42 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

I'm certain my sister (who is a hospital pharmacist and knows about the government listed drugs for discount) will be inquiring her son on costs, who will live in California soon after accepting a full-time job there.  She probably won't get much of an answer for awhile, because he's young, healthy and fit.

The only reason she wouldn’t know is if her son doesn’t tell her.  Assuming he goes on his employers medical plan all costs will be broken down as well as RX pricing.  If he reads through his medical plan he’ll know the costs of meds whether he needs them or not.  
 

Where in CA is he moving to?  I think you mentioned it but I don’t recall?

[shootingstar]

46 minutes ago, dennis said:

So using your comparison system, my healthcare costs are less than yours. The quality of care I have received is outstanding. You should really stop judging something you don't fully understand. 

Your health care benefit is paid much by your employer to get zero cost to you for dental, vision, etc.? This is what I'm getting at... if that's the case, that's great.

I did say I've been unemployed and paid for my dental in full, glasses. But doctor's visits, specialists....no pocket costs. So if you were unemployed would you still get zero cost service? or somehow have to aim for a loophole whatever that may be..for the unemployed in your state, to get zero cost? If you can, great.  But that's not great, to look for loopholes or game the system especially when one is sick to get zero cost/no pocket cost service.

By the way, I never said anything about quality of care as being less in U.S. I never will.  A wife of my nephew did her pediatric hospital internship for a few yrs. in Boston area in last decade.  Unfortunately working as an intern, actively practicing medicine she was "protected" from all the bigger issues of costs and not totally aware of the bigger matters outside of the hospital.

It still doesn't explain of one family who I knew lived in Boston. They had to pay $200,000+ for cancer care for family member.  Maybe they didn't have an employer benefit health care ...would all employers, even restaurants be required?  Or the twitter feed I saw via my niece a few months ago, of over 25 American women from across the U.S., each giving a range of costs for giving birth to a baby in the hospital.  

 

 

[shootingstar]

16 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

The only reason she wouldn’t know is if her son doesn’t tell her.  Assuming he goes on his employers medical plan all costs will be broken down as well as RX pricing.  If he reads through his medical plan he’ll know the costs of meds whether he needs them or not.  
 

Where in CA is he moving to?  I think you mentioned it but I don’t recall?

San Francisco.  Yes, it's expensive. Remember, he's from Toronto. Real estate and apt. rental is 2nd highest in Canada. lst is Vancovuer. Knowing him, nice guy, but young, I'm sure he'll breeze through /barely pay attention to medical bills if employer pays.

His Canadian girlfriend also got a full time job there too ..with a different firm.  

[ChrisL]

2 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

San Francisco.  Yes, it's expensive. Remember, he's from Toronto. Real estate and apt. rental is 2nd highest in Canada. lst is Vancovuer.

San Fran is a cool place.  It’ll be an eye opening experience for him but I’m sure he’ll enjoy it.  I don’t know Toronto weather but San Fran is surprisingly damp & cool, no scratch that it’s cold,  in the summer.  Fall, winter & spring are pleasant. Summer is a foggy dreary mess...

[shootingstar]

23 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

San Fran is a cool place.  It’ll be an eye opening experience for him but I’m sure he’ll enjoy it.  I don’t know Toronto weather but San Fran is surprisingly damp & cool, no scratch that it’s cold,  in the summer.  Fall, winter & spring are pleasant. Summer is a foggy dreary mess...

Well, to be young....  When I was his age....I relocated to ....Toronto from a small city...for work. Never regretted it.

He did live in San Fran for a yr. during his engineering paid co-op work placements ...for 2 different work terms..1st employer for self-driving car technology (yes, he was in the self driving car for testing it....) and 2nd was Facebook which offered him FTE job later. 

He loved going out of town too....I guess he did some rock-climbing.  They drove over to Yosemite, etc. San Fran in terms of some population composition would be similar in some respects to Toronto.

I was in San Fran in June when visiting aunts and relatives 3 decades ago....  amazing, people wearing ski jackets when I was wearing a thick wool sweater. 

[maddmaxx ★]

19 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

The only reason she wouldn’t know is if her son doesn’t tell her.  Assuming he goes on his employers medical plan all costs will be broken down as well as RX pricing.  If he reads through his medical plan he’ll know the costs of meds whether he needs them or not.  
 

Where in CA is he moving to?  I think you mentioned it but I don’t recall?

How's the health care for the unemployed?

[ChrisL]

1 minute ago, maddmaxx said:

How's the health care for the unemployed?

Yeah we both know it’s non existent.... I was making a specific point and not defending our healthcare as a whole. 

[BuffJim]

2 hours ago, shootingstar said:

You and family are lucky at this time...when you're employed.

Maybe If I can propose a seemingly ridiculous idea...if an American pregnant mother needs to deliver her baby in hospital, I propose that the American health system be adjusted so that she received hospital care without out of pocket costs for at least 1-2 days from birth to leaving hospital.  Now, this will address some redneck Americans who don't want more non-white, non-English speaking folks (whom some mistaken for foreigners / refugees, which some of us get tired of hearing the racist whining) who want more native born Americans.  You know promote natural population growth without immigration, right? 

Couldn’t write that without tossing in a few cheap slanders?

[BuffJim]

We’re #49. I’ll probably stay here, because of BuffCarla and her large family, and her wanting to be near them. We’re not in the expensive part of the state, so I wouldn’t be surprised if my metro area was middle of the pack.