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Just sent an employee home.


2Far
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Feeling light-headed when he stood up. Checked his BP. 78/45 :o Whoa, WTF. Checked it again. About the same. 27 y.o. on BP meds. Dude you have something going on, can't come back until you have a full release from a doc. That's when the argument began.

 

Finally had to pull rank on him.

 

Sheesh. :blush:

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Feeling light-headed when he stood up. Checked his BP. 78/45 :o Whoa, WTF. Checked it again. About the same. 27 y.o. on BP meds. Dude you have something going on, can't come back until you have a full release from a doc. That's when the argument began.

Finally had to pull rank on him.

Sheesh. :blush:

he has health insurance and sick days, right?
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Unlikely & no.

 

If you would pardon me, 2Far, for saying so but I would hazard a guess that he does have health insurance, and that I paid for part of it.

 

In any case you acted correctly.  One doesn't need extensive medical training to know that an employee who feels light-headed at work with blood pressure that low can be compromise his own safety and the safety of others.

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If you would pardon me, 2Far, for saying so but I would hazard a guess that he does have health insurance, and that I paid for part of it.

In any case you acted correctly. One doesn't need extensive medical training to know that an employee who feels light-headed at work with blood pressure that low can be compromise his own safety and the safety of others.

how do we know his blood pressure was low? Some guy that's not a medical professional told us he tested him.
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 I've been having a heck of a time since my Doc put me on BP meds. At first he put me on 10mg and I felt great. It was kind of nice not hearing my heart beating at night. :o  But then he upped it to 20mg, and now I just don't feel right. He says my BP is perfect now. But when I check it at home it seems too low, (110ish/80). He says the meds are just doing their job, but sometimes at work I feel weak and lightheaded. Haven't even ridden the bicycle much this summer because of it. At some point I've turned into my dad. :rolleyes: 

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exactly my point.
You aren't a doctor, you didn't go to med school, but you are telling your employee he can't work because of his health problem.

Your testing equipment could be faulty.

He was feeling lightheaded when he stood up..

 

He told me he has been on BP meds for 6 years.

 

I took his BP with an instrument specifically   designed for the task and has shown to be repeatedly accurate in the past. 

 

With the data I had available to me, I chose to require him to get a full release prior to him returning to work. 

 

It's not rocket surgery 

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Working in a hospital had spoiled me. We would never have let someone in his "condition" take themselves home. That too might be a liability, plus we are a hospital afterall. We want you sick, not dead.

I've had folks taken home in the past. I had this guy accompanied to the parking lot. It's a long walk & the guy who was with him knows the drill. 

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how do we know his blood pressure was low? Some guy that's not a medical professional told us he tested him.

 

Bosox, how do you know they didn't have an automated cuff onsite?

 

Plenty of automatic finger or arm readers out there that work easily.  With respect, I think you're jumping a little quickly here.

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 I've been having a heck of a time since my Doc put me on BP meds. At first he put me on 10mg and I felt great. It was kind of nice not hearing my heart beating at night. :o  But then he upped it to 20mg, and now I just don't feel right. He says my BP is perfect now. But when I check it at home it seems too low, (110ish/80). He says the meds are just doing their job, but sometimes at work I feel weak and lightheaded. Haven't even ridden the bicycle much this summer because of it. At some point I've turned into my dad. :rolleyes: 

110/80 is pretty good. Feeling off is pretty lousy. If it were me, I'd go back to 10s for a little bit & see if I noticed an improvement. But that's just me. 

.

I'm back on mine (10s)  after going without for the last 2 years. Pretty sure it's the job stress. No noticeable side effects. 

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110/80 is pretty good. Feeling off is pretty lousy. If it were me, I'd go back to 10s for a little bit & see if I noticed an improvement. But that's just me. 

.

I'm back on mine (10s)  after going without for the last 2 years. Pretty sure it's the job stress. No noticeable side effects. 

 

I'm on two myself.  My BP is genetically high; my grandmother has been able to get numbers high enough to scare the heck out of my family.  Her mother had several strokes in her thirties out in Montana, at a time when medical help was even sparser there than now.  Job stress probably didn't help, but it has never been the primary factor, even when it was insanely high.

 

I have a primary med, and a minor one that assists the other in shaving off another ten points.  No noticeable side effects in my case either.  I told my doctor that I couldn't have a diuretic as I couldn't guarantee I'd be able to replace the lost fluids easily during the day, so neither of my meds are.

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Bosox, how do you know they didn't have an automated cuff onsite?

Plenty of automatic finger or arm readers out there that work easily. With respect, I think you're jumping a little quickly here.

is it accurate? That is a very low BP. Why not drive him to quick care, and have it checked by a professional?

Instead 2Far put a dizzy man man behind the wheel of a motor vehicle. What happens if he passes out and causes an accident?

Maybe the machine isn't accurate, and he felt a little weak due to the heat? Now the employee has to pay for a doctor visit before he can return to work.

This whole thing could have been handled better.
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is it accurate? That is a very low BP. Why not drive him to quick care, and have it checked by a professional?

Instead 2Far put a dizzy man man behind the wheel of a motor vehicle. What happens if he passes out and causes an accident?

Maybe the machine isn't accurate, and he felt a little weak due to the heat? Now the employee has to pay for a doctor visit before he can return to work.

This whole thing could have been handled better.

When the forum is down, do you get a mirror out and argue with yourself?

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Oh for goodness sake! :rolleyes:

 

Yeah, 2Far, Shame!  Shame on you!

 

You should have just kept him at work until he stood up, got light-headed enough to faint, fell, and smashed his head on the floor or the corner of a convenient desk or metal file cabinet.  Then and only then would you have had sufficient proof and confirmation that he shouldn't be at work in the first place and you had good enough cause to send him home.

 

As long as we're all making up 'maybe' scenarios, maybe you should have let him keep doing his job, letting him get light-headed enough to feed his fingers into a machine.  As long as we're all making up 'maybe' scenarios, maybe if he were a crane operator and got light-headed maybe he wouldn't have dropped a bunch of steel on unsuspecting employees' heads.

 

As long as we're all making up 'maybe' scenarios, you better check that cuff you used.  Maybe it's not accurate and the reading it gave you was too high.  Maybe his reading was really 68/35.

 

As long as we're all making up 'maybe' scenarios, maybe he wasn't light-headed at all.  Maybe he only pretended to be and pretended to argue with you because he knew you'd send him home, and then he'd get the day off to listen to his Celine Dion CD's.

 

And that was totally mean of you to have him escorted to his car and force him at gunpoint to drive away.  You left him absolutely no choice to sit there in the car and call an ambulance for himself or call someone to pick him up, or call a taxi.  You made him drive that car, you meany you, because it certainly wasn't his choice to put the key in the ignition, start the car, and drive away. 

 

You're a foolish man, 2Far, because you know as well as everyone else that such a condition would never give the slightest indication that 'maybe' his medication should be adjusted.  Your forcing him to see a doctor before coming back to work could never do that poor man any good and only makes him waste his money.  There's no possible way his medication might be incorrectly prescribed.  There's no possibility at all that a doctor's visit might just catch an error and make a critical adjustment that would keep his blood pressure properly regulated, keep him from passing out and hurting himself. 

 

You flubbed this big time, 2Far! You need to go stand in the corner and not come out until SW gets a sense of humor.

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Oh for goodness sake! :rolleyes:

Yeah, 2Far, Shame! Shame on you!

You should have just kept him at work until he stood up, got light-headed enough to faint, fell, and smashed his head on the floor or the corner of a convenient desk or metal file cabinet. Then and only then would you have had sufficient proof and confirmation that he shouldn't be at work in the first place and you had good enough cause to send him home.

As long as we're all making up 'maybe' scenarios, maybe you should have let him keep doing his job, letting him get light-headed enough to feed his fingers into a machine. As long as we're all making up 'maybe' scenarios, maybe if he were a crane operator and got light-headed maybe he wouldn't have dropped a bunch of steel on unsuspecting employees' heads.

As long as we're all making up 'maybe' scenarios, you better check that cuff you used. Maybe it's not accurate and the reading it gave you was too high. Maybe his reading was really 68/35.

As long as we're all making up 'maybe' scenarios, maybe he wasn't light-headed at all. Maybe he only pretended to be and pretended to argue with you because he knew you'd send him home, and then he'd get the day off to listen to his Celine Dion CD's.

And that was totally mean of you to have him escorted to his car and force him at gunpoint to drive away. You left him absolutely no choice to sit there in the car and call an ambulance for himself or call someone to pick him up, or call a taxi. You made him drive that car, you meany you, because it certainly wasn't his choice to put the key in the ignition, start the car, and drive away.

You're a foolish man, 2Far, because you know as well as everyone else that such a condition would never give the slightest indication that 'maybe' his medication should be adjusted. Your forcing him to see a doctor before coming back to work could never do that poor man any good and only makes him waste his money. There's no possible way his medication might be incorrectly prescribed. There's no possibility at all that a doctor's visit might just catch an error and make a critical adjustment that would keep his blood pressure properly regulated, keep him from passing out and hurting himself.

You flubbed this big time, 2Far! You need to go stand in the corner and not come out until SW gets a sense of humor.

Thanks for setting me straight. It must be nice to be able to see into the future.

Is there anything you don't know(or pretend to know)?
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How??? Did 2far pull out a baseball bat and smack the employee??? Nope.. just said to get a release not from the Dr stating they are fit for work.. I see no harm in that.. if the employee had a problem with it... well there is the door. 

 

 

It is nothing like the stunts I pulled:

Nothing like driving a boat up to the island and telling the employee that he is not working and is lazy.. find a way home and leave my site now before I call the cops... Silly bastard asked if I would shuttle him in my boat to the other side of the river so he can find a ride home... I was busy running a crew of 50 people during an oil spill... I could not just simply leave them. 

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How??? Did 2far pull out a baseball bat and smack the employee??? Nope.. just said to get a release not from the Dr stating they are fit for work.. I see no harm in that.. if the employee had a problem with it... well there is the door.

It's real simple. He should have brought the employee to a quick care and had him checked out.

Instead he let him drive when he was at risk of passing out. The employee could easily cause an accident and harm himself, or anyone out for a Sunday drive.

2Far screwed up, but hopefully it will all work out for everyone.
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Hell with quick care... why didn't he just go further and call 911 and have the matter dispatched... or better yet.. yah never mind.....

 

you will never agree with  the decision anyone make so I should not further try..

 

Lets just agree that when you are on a job site.. shit happens and thats the way it deals out. 

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Feeling light-headed when he stood up. Checked his BP. 78/45 :o Whoa, WTF. Checked it again. About the same. 27 y.o. on BP meds. Dude you have something going on, can't come back until you have a full release from a doc. That's when the argument began.

 

Finally had to pull rank on him.

 

Sheesh. :blush:

thats end stage CHF type of BP.   The dude was either way overmedicated, having a reaction to the medicine, or ate something that's messing with the medicine.

Either way, you did the correct thing.  Hope the kid gets it under control and can come back to work.

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It's real simple. He should have brought the employee to a quick care and had him checked out.

Instead he let him drive when he was at risk of passing out. The employee could easily cause an accident and harm himself, or anyone out for a Sunday drive.

2Far screwed up, but hopefully it will all work out for everyone.

 

The guy gets light headed when he STANDS UP. If that's the only time he has symptoms, it's safe for him to drive. I know you're not in the habit of driving a vehicle very often, but think about it. How often does one stand up when they're behind the wheel of an automobile? He's got a medical condition and was told not to return to work without a doctor's release. That's standard protocol.

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The guy gets light headed when he STANDS UP. If that's the only time he has symptoms, it's safe for him to drive. I know you're not in the habit of driving a vehicle very often, but think about it. How often does one stand up when they're behind the wheel of an automobile? He's got a medical condition and was told not to return to work without a doctor's release. That's standard protocol in the real world.

 How do we know he has a medical condition? 2Far diagnosed the cause of his light headeness as being caused by low blood pressure. Since when did he become qualified to make that diagnosis, and order the worker to get a doctor's release?

 

If he wants a doctor's release, the employer should be paying for it.

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 How do we know he has a medical condition? 2Far diagnosed the cause of his light headeness as being caused by low blood pressure. Since when did he become qualified to make that diagnosis, and order the worker to get a doctor's release?

 

If he wants a doctor's release, the employer should be paying for it.

The OP states the guy is on BP medicine. BP medicine means he has a condition.

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The OP states the guy is on BP medicine. BP medicine means he has a condition.

That doesn't mean his light headedness is caused by his blood pressure. The only reason we know his blood pressure was low is because 2Far took his BP. How do we know that reading was accurate? If it was, WTF did he let him get behind the wheel?

 

2Far mishandled the situation.

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That doesn't mean his light headedness is caused by his blood pressure. The only reason we know his blood pressure was low is because 2Far took his BP. How do we know that reading was accurate? If it was, WTF did he let him get behind the wheel?

 

2Far mishandled the situation.

It's still a medical condition indicating an issue with blood pressure, and the kids BP was way out of the norm and consistent with his symptoms.  2Far did the correct thing.   This isn't a workers comp claim situation, and for most companies, an employee feeling poor would be sent home.  It would then be up to the employee to go to the doctor...not the employers expense.

Same as it would be for me if I were to have an extreme blood sugar swing....say it went to 600...it's not the employers expense...it would be mine.

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It's still a medical condition indicating an issue with blood pressure, and the kids BP was way out of the norm and consistent with his symptoms.  2Far did the correct thing.   This isn't a workers comp claim situation, and for most companies, an employee feeling poor would be sent home.  It would then be up to the employee to go to the doctor...not the employers expense.

Same as it would be for me if I were to have an extreme blood sugar swing....say it went to 600...it's not the employers expense...it would be mine.

Why is 2Far taking anyone's BP? He isn't qualified to make any diagnosis as to the cause of his employee's lightheadedness. 

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Why is 2Far taking anyone's BP? He isn't qualified to make any diagnosis as to the cause of his employee's lightheadedness. 

Who cares what the reason is at this point? He gets light headed when he stands up. That in itself implies a medical condition. I don't think anybody has stated that the condition is without doubt because of his low BP. You're getting hung up on the "diagnosis" and overlooking the problem itself.

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BSY, the OP says, "Checked his BP." It doesn't specify whether 2Far actually did the check or if the employee did the check. I am on BP meds and have my own Sphigmo. Most likely, the employee does as well. You don't have to be a medical professional to read a BP and determine if it's high or low. In fact, the docs want you to check it. And it's not a dx to state low BP is happening.

But I don't think 2Far mishandled anything. Not by anything I've read here anyway.

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Why is 2Far taking anyone's BP? He isn't qualified to make any diagnosis as to the cause of his employee's lightheadedness. 

 

Ok, I will pile on.  Presumably, it is part of his duty as slave-driver to be sure that employees are healthy enough to do a job without causing accidents or lawsuits.  Also, one doesn't need much qualification to notice a low bp or flesh-eating bacterial infection.   78/45 is low, I know this and I have had less medical schooling than 2Far.

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BSY, the OP says, "Checked his BP." It doesn't specify whether 2Far actually did the check or if the employee did the check. I am on BP meds and have my own Sphigmo. Most likely, the employee does as well. You don't have to be a medical professional to read a BP and determine if it's high or low. In fact, the docs want you to check it. And it's not a dx to state low BP is happening.

But I don't think 2Far mishandled anything. Not by anything I've read here anyway.

I think 2Far would have mentioned it by now if he didn't take the BP reading.

If the BP was that low, the employee shouldn't be driving.
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