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How To Prepare for Climate Change


dinneR

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22 minutes ago, dennis said:

I picked up the book for the section on where to live. His advice, inland away from wildfire danger and places close to good fresh water. 

You're my age.  Why are you worried about where to live in the Mad Max post-apocalyptic future? 

13 hours ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said:

I'd consider it a kindness if you could direct me to such information.  I'd like to review it, and perhaps it would change my views.

Maybe you'd like to share the info you used to form your current views as well? I'm sure Maxx and others might like the "well-rounded" perspective, and my change their views based upon your info.

 

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9 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

You're my age.  Why are you worried about where to live in the Mad Max post-apocalyptic future? 

Maybe you'd like to share the info you used to form your current views as well? I'm sure Maxx and others might like the "well-rounded" perspective, and my change their views based upon your info.

 

I've been reading up on retirement. GF and I have discussed if we should stay here or move. We both like it here, but it is crazy expensive and only getting worse. We will see more millionaires and billionaires in the next decade. The airport is running out of room to park the private jets(no shit). Wildfires are an issue and could only get worse. 

Duluth, MN is looking good!

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6 minutes ago, dennis said:

I've been reading up on retirement. GF and I have discussed if we should stay here or move. We both like it here, but it is crazy expensive and only getting worse. We will see more millionaires and billionaires in the next decade. The airport is running out of room to park the private jets(no shit). Wildfires are an issue and could only get worse. 

Duluth, MN is looking good!

Cost of living is obviously a very important retirement question.  Climate change issues seem far lower on the totem pole for folks in the soon-to-retire time frame, and seemingly almost a zero priority for folks in the already retired category.  Is the window of "the Southeast is doomed" or "the prairie states are dust bowl bound" really on the horizon (in a human lifespan scale)?

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21 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Cost of living is obviously a very important retirement question.  Climate change issues seem far lower on the totem pole for folks in the soon-to-retire time frame, and seemingly almost a zero priority for folks in the already retired category.  Is the window of "the Southeast is doomed" or "the prairie states are dust bowl bound" really on the horizon (in a human lifespan scale)?

We have a list of priorities. Cost of living, outdoor opportunities, healthcare etc. Being near a university is a bonus because of the free entertainment.

Climate issues are big in my opinion. I don't like heat, so if it is a warm place it will just get warmer. Living in places that will flood or see stronger natural disasters are not ideal. In the west, wildfires are a big problem that will just get worse. We have days or weeks where being outside is crappy because of the smoke.

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4 hours ago, maddmaxx said:

I would expect normal living conditions to change

That's the easy part to fix.  Well, except the economic impact of say, moving the entirety of Manhattan inland so it will no longer be under water.

As new climates change how crops grow, there's going to be some serious food problems.  The much more frequent and much more sever storms knocking down whatever we build.

There's so much more to it than where I live getting a couple degrees warmer or colder and having to upgrade the insulation in my house.

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The flip side of all of this, at least in economic terms:

The Keystone Pipeline is off again.  That will cost (according to the company who was planning to build it) 1,000 jobs, most of which were short term.  And it would have been obsolete and shut down in 10 years anyway

NJ is now building out to be the wind power capital of the US.  A German company is putting a post and blade factory here, 2 ports for taking parts offshore, a maintenance facility.  That will actually be the largest single job creator since the casinos, 10's of thousands of jobs.

It's progress.  And economic boost AND cleaner air.  

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5 minutes ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said:

Sure, a reasonable and fair request...

image.png.c490d681068a6ae36678ccb40122d902.png

While I am still planning on doing the best I can to be a steward for the environment, I am trying to live happy.  My whole life has been fairly modest.  I did not create this problem or do too many things to worsen it.  

Supposedly we have significant underground waterways.  I am not as concerned about the water issue as I am about the air quality issue from smoke.  Personally, I think the smoke is going to be everyone's problem and not just the West and south west.  Food issues will be a problem for all of us.  I would advise people to start gardening if you don't already do so.  

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1 hour ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said:

Sure, a reasonable and fair request...

image.png.c490d681068a6ae36678ccb40122d902.png

Looks like a good book. 

I'm thinking about this as where I want to live. Where is the air and water clean? What can I afford? Upstate NY is on Pogue's list. If you see a tent pitched in yard, don't be alarmed. And if you see someone with a tape measure figuring out if a yurt will fit on your estate, offer me him a beer.

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1 hour ago, 12string said:

The flip side of all of this, at least in economic terms:

The Keystone Pipeline is off again.  That will cost (according to the company who was planning to build it) 1,000 jobs, most of which were short term.  And it would have been obsolete and shut down in 10 years anyway

NJ is now building out to be the wind power capital of the US.  A German company is putting a post and blade factory here, 2 ports for taking parts offshore, a maintenance facility.  That will actually be the largest single job creator since the casinos, 10's of thousands of jobs.

It's progress.  And economic boost AND cleaner air.  

Wind power, solar power, and any other power generation that disrupts traditional coal, oil, and natural gas are going to be astroturfed into oblivion in every state they start making any real inroads.  It's a case of non-corporeal beings having far more power ($$$ to spend to influence) than the actual human beings, and it is spent on diverting, obfuscating, distracting, and outright blocking implementation of better policies for humans and the environment.

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5 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

One would have to wonder if Shellenberger considers Pogue an alarmist. Or even you, Dennis, as one?

Good question. I've only read a couple of chapters of Pogue so far, but I think of it like I think of insurance. He hasn't mentioned billions of people dying or starving yet. Look at what happen in CA with fires or TX recently. Take care of business, protect yourself.

We are having a conversation about our future. Weighing options as everything is on the table. We could stay put. We could move. Pogue offers a number of different reasons for moving. Quality of life, affordability, healthcare, jobs, and climate considerations. Those are all things we are weighing. I'm reading Suze Orman's retirement guide as well. Suze talks about moving too, but for financial reasons.

I told my GF this is just an opportunity for us to travel and see what's out there. 

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1 hour ago, Razors Edge said:

Wind power, solar power, and any other power generation that disrupts traditional coal, oil, and natural gas are going to be astroturfed into oblivion in every state they start making any real inroads.  It's a case of non-corporeal beings having far more power ($$$ to spend to influence) than the actual human beings, and it is spent on diverting, obfuscating, distracting, and outright blocking implementation of better policies for humans and the environment.

There's already a couple offshore wind projects approved, and those alone far exceed the replacement of the Keystone job losses.

We've got people downashore complaining that the wind towers will obstruct their view, even though the towers are 35 miles offshore.  Forgetting if we stay with oil their view will be obstructed by fish.  And the fishermen are complaining, it's going to change fish patterns.  Though nearly not as much as dumping the ice gaps into the gulf stream will

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1 hour ago, Razors Edge said:

Wind power, solar power, and any other power generation that disrupts traditional coal, oil, and natural gas are going to be astroturfed into oblivion in every state they start making any real inroads.  It's a case of non-corporeal beings having far more power ($$$ to spend to influence) than the actual human beings, and it is spent on diverting, obfuscating, distracting, and outright blocking implementation of better policies for humans and the environment.

WY is going to sue states that want to shut down coal fired plants.

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12 minutes ago, dennis said:

WY is going to sue states that want to shut down coal fired plants.

Yeah - that's a "climate" and "environmental" friendly effort :D  And that would be what you would see them do.  There are countless hidden tactics that are routinely employed in to achieve the same end. 

It is interesting to also see and hear the things we can't do (too hard, crazy, unrealistic, rose-colored viewing, etc.) while also hearing and reading about all the ways tech is gonna save us.  Clean coal :)  is a great one.  Mythbusters did work hard to shine a turd, so imagine what can be done with far greater resources and scientific brains can do!

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10 minutes ago, dennis said:

WY is going to sue states that want to shut down coal fired plants.

Perhaps the New England states that are directly downwind of the acid rain caused by the mid America coal plants should sue Wyoming.

I always thought of where I live now as a safe place for the future but as the weather patterns change our forests are headed the way of the great fire hazzard.  It's barely spring and already we a posting fire hazard warning days.  One has to wonder what happens to the ground aquifer we sink our wells into if the rain patterns change.

Because this is the science of the weather guessers everything is only predictable by modeling and the data so far is too incomplete for those to be solid unchanging thought.

The link I posted earlier about the Navy's troubles with it's major shipyards still shows their estimate to be .3 to ,4 meter rise in sea level in the next 50 years.  That's far from the alarmist views stressed by some.  It's hard to get the population moving on a subject that far out which is why I don't think we will.

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There are the alarmist views.  And there are deniers.  The truth, as always, is somewhere in between.

Wyoming should be sued for suing.  There's zero chance they can win their suit, they  know that, but come election time, guess what they can tell the voters?  In the interim, $millions in wasted legal fees by the taxpayers.

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2 hours ago, dennis said:

Looks like a good book. 

I'm thinking about this as where I want to live. Where is the air and water clean? What can I afford? Upstate NY is on Pogue's list. If you see a tent pitched in yard, don't be alarmed. And if you see someone with a tape measure figuring out if a yurt will fit on your estate, offer me him a beer.

The Adirondacks of NY are a winter wonderland. Plenty of winter recreation. You won’t get the stunning views of the Rockies, or the awesome powder. But plenty of recreation of all types. Comfortable and spacious housing for well under $300,000. You also won’t find millionaires buying up everything in sight. 

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5 minutes ago, 12string said:

There are the alarmist views.  And there are deniers.  The truth, as always, is somewhere in between.

But not in the middle "between" the deniers and the alarmists.

5 minutes ago, BuffJim said:

Comfortable and spacious housing for well under $300,000. You also won’t find millionaires buying up everything in sight. 

Until the folks in Manhattan and Long Island start seeing their yards and roads getting closer to sea level.  RG will be there in a skinny minute!

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17 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Yeah - that's a "climate" and "environmental" friendly effort :D  And that would be what you would see them do.  There are countless hidden tactics that are routinely employed in to achieve the same end. 

It is interesting to also see and hear the things we can't do (too hard, crazy, unrealistic, rose-colored viewing, etc.) while also hearing and reading about all the ways tech is gonna save us.  Clean coal :)  is a great one.  Mythbusters did work hard to shine a turd, so imagine what can be done with far greater resources and scientific brains can do!

Gotta love clean coal! Ours is the cleanest.

Wyoming lawmakers have endorsed a plan to set aside money to sue states that turn away from using coal to generate electricity.

The House Minerals, Business and Economic Development Committee voted unanimously Friday to advance the bill that would reserve $1.2 million to sue states that support shutting down Wyoming coal-fired power plants or impede exports of Wyoming coal.

Wyoming produces more coal than any other state. Increased competition from renewable energy and cheaper natural gas has diminished demand for coal-fired electricity.

 

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17 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

So if there are tons of trees in the mountains of the Eastern USA, why are there no fires there?  Is it really that wet there to prevent fire?   

It has been in the past but that may be changing.  We get fires started by careless people but they don't spread fast enough to get out of control.  Compared to the west it's very wet here.  50.2 inches compared to 38.1 for the national average which is in turn compared to 18.8 for California and almost 65 for North Bend Oregon.

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2 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

It has been in the past but that may be changing.  We get fires started by careless people but they don't spread fast enough to get out of control.  Compared to the west it's very wet here.  50.2 inches compared to 38.1 for the national average which is in turn compared to 18.8 for California.

Maybe bigger snowpack too.  We had a gigantic year about 4 years ago.  Glorious summer that year.

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1 minute ago, Dirtyhip said:

Maybe bigger snowpack too.  We had a gigantic year about 4 years ago.  Glorious summer that year.

Not as much snow this year or last.  Several 2 and 3" rainstorms that would have been interesting if it had been cold enough. We've had what amount to almost drought years lately.

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1 hour ago, Dirtyhip said:

So if there are tons of trees in the mountains of the Eastern USA, why are there no fires there?  Is it really that wet there to prevent fire?   

There are fire towers all over the forests of NY, but in the last 50 years, very few fires. I think there must have been better fire conditions 100 years ago. 

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Good topic Dennis. Most climate change effects studies focus on the macro issues. More hurricanes with greater destruction. Rising sea levels, wildfires out west, Texas ice storms, etc. I fear the micro effects. An argument could be made that the COVID pandemic was made worse due to rising temperatures. There has been a noted two degree rise in Earth’s surface temperature since the pre-Industrial era (1880-1900). Rising temperatures, over time, cause changes including at the microbial level. Viruses and bacteria will change to adapt to the change in temperature. Our immunity has not kept pace. I believe that we will see more frequent pandemics in the future as well. The thawing areas that were once frozen, Siberia, Greenland, etc. are exposing bacteria that has not been around for thousands of years. Rising temperatures will cook that stuff into something new that we are not prepared for. Maybe, maybe not. But I am concerned.

https://www.climate.gov/news-features/understanding-climate/climate-change-global-temperature

 

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32 minutes ago, Old No. 7 said:

Good topic Dennis. Most climate change effects studies focus on the macro issues. More hurricanes with greater destruction. Rising sea levels, wildfires out west, Texas ice storms, etc. I fear the micro effects. An argument could be made that the COVID pandemic was made worse due to rising temperatures. There has been a noted two degree rise in Earth’s surface temperature since the pre-Industrial era (1880-1900). Rising temperatures, over time, cause changes including at the microbial level. Viruses and bacteria will change to adapt to the change in temperature. Our immunity has not kept pace. I believe that we will see more frequent pandemics in the future as well. The thawing areas that were once frozen, Siberia, Greenland, etc. are exposing bacteria that has not been around for thousands of years. Rising temperatures will cook that stuff into something new that we are not prepared for. Maybe, maybe not. But I am concerned.

https://www.climate.gov/news-features/understanding-climate/climate-change-global-temperature

 

Not to mention dangerous insects and animals moving north from their usual habitats.

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