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Zealot

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Zealot, I am sorry this spun out of control.  It is very personal to me, about the covid thing.  My husband helps work the front lines.  Uncontrolled spread is a risk to his life, and this is why I feel so passionate about controlling the spread and wanting to see an end to the pandemic.

I am sorry and I hope you don't leave because of one bad thread

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14 hours ago, Dirtyhip said:

Zealot, I am sorry this spun out of control.  It is very personal to me, about the covid thing.  My husband helps work the front lines.  Uncontrolled spread is a risk to his life, and this is why I feel so passionate about controlling the spread and wanting to see an end to the pandemic.

I am sorry and I hope you don't leave because of one bad thread

Yeah, I'll second that.  I didn't see where it all went, but I also got a bit emotional in the COVID thread, and I apologize.  No reason to leave for that, we're humans, we disagree.  Would be boring if we didn't

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12 minutes ago, 12string said:

Yeah, I'll second that.  I didn't see where it all went, but I also got a bit emotional in the COVID thread, and I apologize.  No reason to leave for that, we're humans, we disagree.  Would be boring if we didn't

It spun out of control because I changed the thread title to one declaring it to be political and worthy of being removed.  It was supposed to be a thread about the new increases in the infections and it went political immediately.  We've managed to have a discussion about climate change and avoid politics so I don't understand why this one couldn't.

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1 hour ago, Longjohn said:

I think you should stick around this place will end up like the Love Forum if we all leave that have a different point of view.

But @donkpow and I would thrive!  :D  If there is any place on earth that is "open" to different points of view, it is the internet.  Good or bad, folks can and will espouse all manner of things they believe with little or no repercussions in the real world.  So, if you can't say it here, really where can you say it?

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27 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

 we should at least respect each other & their views.  

Hmm, I don't necessarily think so.  I don't respect flat-earther's views at all, they are objectively stupid.  Qanon, same thing, just dumber than shit. When someone espouses a belief that is directly fueling a pandemic, then I can muster very little respect for those views at all.  Respecting others is different than respecting ridiculous and harmful viewpoints.  

I think listening to why folks believe something is important.  So many people just adhere to the very first viewpoint they glom onto, no thought or deductive logic, no devil's advocate voice to self-challenge, and that leads to people acting without foundation and to double-down on the silly ideas. If you come across people who have multiple belief systems based on hogwash, you can generally give their opinions very little weight. 

If people are willing to talk about their opinions, they damn well ought to be able to rationally defend them.  Getting loud and emotional is not a valid defense, and "feeling strongly" about something should mean you have thought the shit out of it before you can call it that.  Most people who "feel very strongly" about something haven't met that basic requirement, and generally say they "feel very strongly" about something to avoid defending it.  So while I agree that a basic level of respect be given initially, that doesn't mean that respect is conferred forever when there is contradicting evidence against.

Society is hard.

 

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I guess I missed the politics.  Last I saw, it was me giving zealot a hard time because of the COVID's a thing/COVID's not a thing disparity.  That's not political, that's scientific.

Like Randomguy said, respecting "opinions" is about context.  I argue a lot, I'm stubborn, I believe what I believe until you factually convince me otherwise.  But though it may not seem so (my problem), I DO respect other's opinions.

But in today's choose your own reality world, we've lost the distinction between opinions and facts.  When you say chili should not have beans, I will not tell you that you are wrong, I'll tell you why I think otherwise.  When you tell me the sky is made of raisins, I'll tell you your wrong.  That's not disrespecting an opinion, that's pointing out a proven fallacy.

Since there's been so much "my opinion is a fact", I've been picking and choosing my battles.  Go ahead, believe the sky is made of raisins, why would I care?  But when you start spreading lies that get people killed, yeah, I'll speak up. It's not disrespecting your "opinion", it's trying to get you to understand how dangerous it is to believe a particular lie.  There's too much at stake.

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5 minutes ago, 12string said:

  When you tell me the sky is made of raisins, I'll tell you your wrong.  That's not disrespecting an opinion, that's pointing out a proven fallacy.

I’m not familiar with the raisin sky fallacy. Is that a California thing? 

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7 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

Wow my post got taken down? OK fine carry on, nothing to see here.  

People came down hard on Zealot for his views, he got pissed & left.  But it’s all good because he was wrong....

 

He was wrong, but it's not good that he left because of it.  Not that I think anyone would change his mind, but it's not good that he left.

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1 minute ago, 12string said:

He was wrong, but it's not good that he left because of it.  Not that I think anyone would change his mind, but it's not good that he left.

Well that’s my point.... We keep   running off those who we disagree with.  

All I’m saying is we can and should be better to each other.

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1 hour ago, Razors Edge said:

But @donkpow and I would thrive!  :D  If there is any place on earth that is "open" to different points of view, it is the internet.  Good or bad, folks can and will espouse all manner of things they believe with little or no repercussions in the real world.  So, if you can't say it here, really where can you say it?

You're starting to get on my nerves. I can only take so much of your shenanigans. You keep messing with me and I'll shut the internet thing down, buster.

mnmo7.jpg

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Just now, ChrisL said:

Wow my post got taken down? OK fine carry on, nothing to see here.  

People came down hard on Zealot for his views, he got pissed & left.  But it’s all good because he was wrong....

 

Mine did, too, not sure why.  It agreed with WHO and CDC's scientific conclusions, of that there is no argument, plus it had a little omnidirectional oomph.  Yours was not offensive in any way.

Like I said, if you state your opinion, you ought to be able to support it.  If he got pissed and left, that's on him.  He could have stayed and rose to the very real challenges and tried to convince, but defense mechanisms kicked in instead. Plus his views ran counter to scientific consensus and counter to support of your fellow man.  If your opinions run counter to logic, reason, and the basic foundations of society, you should examine them thoroughly.

 

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Just now, Randomguy said:

Mine did, too, not sure why.  It agreed with WHO and CDC's scientific conclusions, of that there is no argument, plus it had a little omnidirectional oomph.  Yours was not offensive in any way.

Like I said, if you state your opinion, you ought to be able to support it.  If he got pissed and left, that's on him.  He could have stayed and rose to the very real challenges and tried to convince, but defense mechanisms kicked in instead. Plus his views ran counter to scientific consensus and counter to support of your fellow man.  If your opinions run counter to logic, reason, and the basic foundations of society, you should examine them thoroughly.

 

 

1 minute ago, ChrisL said:

Well that’s my point.... We keep   running off those who we disagree with.  

All I’m saying is we can and should be better to each other.

 

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15 minutes ago, dennis said:

In this thread or the one from yesterday?

Yesterday’s. I didn’t engage as it appeared that he was making a comparison to traffic accidents killing 58,000 people a year and Covid at 550,000 deaths. I didn’t understand where he was coming from, but he already seemed upset at the discussion, so I didn’t inquire further.

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2 minutes ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

Yesterday’s. I didn’t engage as it appeared that he was making a comparison to traffic accidents killing 58,000 people a year and Covid at 550,000 deaths. I didn’t understand where he was coming from, but he already seemed upset at the discussion, so I didn’t inquire further.

I wasn't in that thread at all, either, but those two things seem to be apples and oranges.

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1 minute ago, Randomguy said:

I wasn't in that thread at all, either, but those two things seem to be apples and oranges.

There are some good similarities though. I have always been incensed aboot crashes due to stupidity like texting and general driver distraction. And at 55,000 deaths per year, it only takes 10 years to equal this 100 year pandemic. And both are caused by people not following da rules. 

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48 minutes ago, roadsue said:

I’m not familiar with the raisin sky fallacy. Is that a California thing? 

Not familiar with that either, but speaking of raisins, I posted a recipe that had raisins in it on FB. My office wife from years back stated that she likes raisins but not in her food, like the recipe called for. Is that weird, normal or both? It’s weird to me, cause she will eat raisins out of the box, but not if they’re mixed with other stuff on her plate. It’s normal to her. So it’s both. 

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8 minutes ago, Philander Seabury said:

Yeah, really, you can really only run yourself off.   Ok, I guess if there was a real asshole determined to run you off it would be possible, but like the ad says “we don’t have those”. :D

 

We have an ad?!  Why haven't I seen it?

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I'm starting to feel a little put upon. I'm thinking somebody should start apologizing. Just pick something and start apologizing. That's how you do it. Maybe make some reparations. Better yet, pass out restitutions. Everybody could use a good restitute every now and then.

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1 minute ago, donkpow said:

I'm starting to feel a little put upon. I'm thinking somebody should start apologizing. Just pick something and start apologizing. That's how you do it. Maybe make some reparations. Better yet, pass out restitutions. Everybody could use a good restitute every now and then.

I'm sorry you are wrong so often.

Feel better?

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2 minutes ago, Old No. 7 said:

Not familiar with that either, but speaking of raisins, I posted a recipe that had raisins in it on FB. My office wife from years back stated that she likes raisins but not in her food, like the recipe called for. Is that weird, normal or both? It’s weird to me, cause she will eat raisins out of the box, but not if they’re mixed with other stuff on her plate. It’s normal to her. So it’s both. 

I like raisins in recipes but I almost never eat them on their own.

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