Yellowstone Park south entrance permanently closed to spring cycling

[jdc2000]

Quote

Effective April 23, 2021, the South Entrance Road, beginning at the South Entrance Station to the West Thumb Junction, will be closed to spring bicycling permanently.

 

https://www.nps.gov/yell/planyourvisit/spring-fall-bicycling.htm

 

 

 

[Airehead]

We’re there a bunch of visibility accidents due to snow?

[Dottleshead ★]

I was just through there the last year. What's the problem?! I mean besides riding on roads with no shoulders and a gazillion automobiles?

[jdc2000]

The closure period is before the road opens to general automobile traffic.  Only park service and concessionaire vehicles should be on the roads.

 

[Dottleshead ★]

1 hour ago, jdc2000 said:

The closure period is before the road opens to general automobile traffic.  Only park service and concessionaire vehicles should be on the roads.

 

It would have helped if I read the article, huh!? Actually I did after I posted and decided it was too much work to go back and edit it. And @Square Wheels feels bad for only riding a measely 38 miles.

[MickinMD ★]

Haven't cycled there, but if you're in the Park it's worth the drive south to around Jackson to see the Grand Tetons, Jackson Lake, etc.

[dinneR ★]

17 hours ago, Airehead said:

We’re there a bunch of visibility accidents due to snow?

None that I am aware of. Other roads in Yellowstone are open during this time period. I don't understand why they are closing just this entrance to spring riding before they open to cars. These photos are from mid-May 2020 and 2019. GTNP allows riding in April before the road opens to cars in May. 

Maybe they are trying to kill the Chester A. Arthur Memorial ride.

 

 

[Razors Edge ★]

1 minute ago, denniS said:

I don't understand why they are closing just this entrance to spring riding before they open to cars.

They wrote:

Effective April 23, 2021, the South Entrance Road, beginning at the South Entrance Station to the West Thumb Junction, will be closed to spring bicycling permanently.

Yellowstone National Park has identified that spring bicycling on the South Entrance Road poses a significant risk to bicyclists due to the narrow roadway and lack of road shoulders. In addition, and most importantly, high snow banks, often on both sides of the road, make the road even more narrow, limits site distances and drivers' ability to see bicyclists, and leaves no escape route for bicyclists in case of the need to leave the roadway.

[dinneR ★]

3 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

They wrote:

Effective April 23, 2021, the South Entrance Road, beginning at the South Entrance Station to the West Thumb Junction, will be closed to spring bicycling permanently.

Yellowstone National Park has identified that spring bicycling on the South Entrance Road poses a significant risk to bicyclists due to the narrow roadway and lack of road shoulders. In addition, and most importantly, high snow banks, often on both sides of the road, make the road even more narrow, limits site distances and drivers' ability to see bicyclists, and leaves no escape route for bicyclists in case of the need to leave the roadway.

I read it. I just don't understand it. They are closing the road to bikes when cars are not allowed, but opening the road to bikes when cars are allowed. I feel safer riding that road when there are no cars then when there are cars. 

[jsharr ★]

6 minutes ago, denniS said:

I read it. I just don't understand it. They are closing the road to bikes when cars are not allowed, but opening the road to bikes when cars are allowed. I feel safer riding that road when there are no cars then when there are cars. 

they do not want the liability, as all the cars on the road when no cars are allowed are their cars maybe?  Or the head guy in charge got stuck behind a bike and could not pass and said to himself, I will fix this shit, right now! 

[Razors Edge ★]

1 minute ago, jsharr said:

they do not want the liability, as all the cars on the road when no cars are allowed are their cars maybe?  Or the head guy in charge got stuck behind a bike and could not pass and said to himself, I will fix this shit, right now! 

Yep - they realize they don't want to deal with cyclists!  You know the types - "We're entitled to the WHOLE LANE".  Jeebus, it's amazing they left those other parts open! Or, maybe it is not coincidental it is the folks from Wyoming and Jackson coming through and pissing folks off?  The Idaho and Montana folks are just easier to deal with than the stuck up folks from down south?

[dinneR ★]

3 minutes ago, jsharr said:

they do not want the liability, as all the cars on the road when no cars are allowed are their cars maybe?  Or the head guy in charge got stuck behind a bike and could not pass and said to himself, I will fix this shit, right now! 

Yes, there are some park service trucks on the road, but there are no services from the south entrance to Grant Village. They figured out the other roads. Other NPs have figured this out. 

[dinneR ★]

Maybe it's because there is nothing in it for the park and their vendors. They promote the West Yellowstone route to Old Faithful, spend the night and ride back. I'd ride to the Old Faithful Inn, spend the night and ride back the next day from the south if they let me.

[jsharr ★]

15 minutes ago, denniS said:

Maybe it's because there is nothing in it for the park and their vendors. They promote the West Yellowstone route to Old Faithful, spend the night and ride back. I'd ride to the Old Faithful Inn, spend the night and ride back the next day from the south if they let me.

Yeah but you are an aberration and a noted glutton for self atonement.

[dinneR ★]

Just now, jsharr said:

Yeah but you are an aberration and a noted glutton for self atonement.

I have a friend who would ride it with me. The Chester A. Arthur ride is wildly popular. 

[jdc2000]

Their "reasoning" is a load of manure.  They really don't want anyone visiting "their" park at any time, and they have never liked cyclists.  At one point a number of years ago, they were thinking of banning bicycles year round anywhere in the park.

 

[Dottleshead ★]

15 hours ago, MickinMD said:

Haven't cycled there, but if you're in the Park it's worth the drive south to around Jackson to see the Grand Tetons, Jackson Lake, etc.

If you go to that part of the world and don't go to GTNP, you've seriously blown it.

[Razors Edge ★]

12 hours ago, jdc2000 said:

Their "reasoning" is a load of manure.  They really don't want anyone visiting "their" park at any time, and they have never liked cyclists.  At one point a number of years ago, they were thinking of banning bicycles year round anywhere in the park.

 

I'm not sure who "they" are?  The local Yellowstone admin folks? The greater NP system admins? Park Rangers?  I do remember reading about the fiefdoms that develop within the Parks and can foster some less than reasonable working conditions. 

Sadly, cyclists are a massive - often under 1/10 of 1% of attendance at a NP, and maybe low single digits for the most bike friendly Parks (like Shenandoah).  If you spend an hour at a park gate, you will literally see hundreds of cars packed with multiple people enter a park, and, if you are luck, a pair or two of riders.  I'd rate only equestrians as a smaller demographic.  In any case, our presence then has an outsized impact on the Park's traffic   One set of riders, in a lane (legally), going 20 mph in a 35 mph no-pass zone RAPIDLY drives car folks nuts.  Folks meant to be "relaxing" in the Parks become nightmares on four wheels with two or three tons of steel at their fingertips.  Of course, 99.9% are fine and just pass, but it is those super rare car-bike interactions that are a nightmare scenario for the Parks. If they are NPS vehicles and cyclists, that's even worse. 

So, if you are some bean counter or insurance guy or just looking at "bang-for-the-buck" actions - without any underlying goal to spread the demographics of the Park - low hanging fruit is often cyclists   Given a choice between widening roads, adding barriers, changing signage, reducing speeds, maintaining shoulders, etc. (lots of effort, lots of $$$) OR limiting/restricting cyclists (zero effort, zero $$$), even the non-lazy administrators would have to seriously consider screwing over cyclists in the interests of other users (cars!) and budget limitations (massive shortfalls every year).

As a fairly regular Park user and someone who luckily has a few cycling friendly NPs in my rotation, I dread the day they decide to make decisions based on usage patterns rather than their relatively current adoption of being "open" to more than just cars.  Cyclists rarely win these sorts of debates without a LOT of input and support from the cycling community.  Perhaps @denniS or you know the right folks to lobby and appeal to?  And maybe some of the broader cycling orgs can be made aware of the change?  Has the Adventure Cycling - a Montana company - mentioned it? Or have PeopleForBikes (Bikes Belong) or League of American Bicyclists been creating a buzz about this? Dennis' local Wyoming Pathways maybe?  IOW - even in a just my relatively quick scan of the advocacy and business news - I am not seeing much outrage or a call to arms/support regarding the Yellowstone access  

VERY frustrating to lose a "right" but also not surprising.

[dinneR ★]

49 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

I'm not sure who "they" are?  The local Yellowstone admin folks? The greater NP system admins? Park Rangers?  I do remember reading about the fiefdoms that develop within the Parks and can foster some less than reasonable working conditions. 

Sadly, cyclists are a massive - often under 1/10 of 1% of attendance at a NP, and maybe low single digits for the most bike friendly Parks (like Shenandoah).  If you spend an hour at a park gate, you will literally see hundreds of cars packed with multiple people enter a park, and, if you are luck, a pair or two of riders.  I'd rate only equestrians as a smaller demographic.  In any case, our presence then has an outsized impact on the Park's traffic   One set of riders, in a lane (legally), going 20 mph in a 35 mph no-pass zone RAPIDLY drives car folks nuts.  Folks meant to be "relaxing" in the Parks become nightmares on four wheels with two or three tons of steel at their fingertips.  Of course, 99.9% are fine and just pass, but it is those super rare car-bike interactions that are a nightmare scenario for the Parks. If they are NPS vehicles and cyclists, that's even worse. 

So, if you are some bean counter or insurance guy or just looking at "bang-for-the-buck" actions - without any underlying goal to spread the demographics of the Park - low hanging fruit is often cyclists   Given a choice between widening roads, adding barriers, changing signage, reducing speeds, maintaining shoulders, etc. (lots of effort, lots of $$$) OR limiting/restricting cyclists (zero effort, zero $$$), even the non-lazy administrators would have to seriously consider screwing over cyclists in the interests of other users (cars!) and budget limitations (massive shortfalls every year).

As a fairly regular Park user and someone who luckily has a few cycling friendly NPs in my rotation, I dread the day they decide to make decisions based on usage patterns rather than their relatively current adoption of being "open" to more than just cars.  Cyclists rarely win these sorts of debates without a LOT of input and support from the cycling community.  Perhaps @denniS or you know the right folks to lobby and appeal to?  And maybe some of the broader cycling orgs can be made aware of the change?  Has the Adventure Cycling - a Montana company - mentioned it? Or have PeopleForBikes (Bikes Belong) or League of American Bicyclists been creating a buzz about this? Dennis' local Wyoming Pathways maybe?  IOW - even in a just my relatively quick scan of the advocacy and business news - I am not seeing much outrage or a call to arms/support regarding the Yellowstone access  

VERY frustrating to lose a "right" but also not surprising.

They are the local Yellowstone admin. That is where the decision was made. 

GTNP is pretty bike friendly and has a lot of riders. You can rent a bike in the park at Dornan's in Moose. The pathway runs from Moose to Jenny Lake. You can also start in Jackson and ride to Jenny 100% pathway riding. There are multiple bike rental shops in town including one that only has e-bikes and e-bikes are allowed in GTNP. They open the inner park road to non-motorized transportation from late March to April 30. The parking lot at the trailhead is beyond capacity every weekend and parking on the road stretches for another half mile. This year they opened another lot and more road parking. The windy point lot one mile away is usually full too. That's a lot of people on bikes. The bike racks at Jenny are usually full in the summer. GTNP sees a lot of bike traffic and the park is pretty accommodating. 

YNP opens West to Mammoth to bikes for one week. They decided to end the south entrance riding. You can still ride to Flagg Ranch. 

For me this was a once a year ride, so no big deal. If I decide to ride in YNP, it will have to be with cars.

Bicyclists willing to brave the unpredictable elements of spring in Yellowstone can ride 49 miles of park roads from the West Entrance to Mammoth Hot Springs for a small period of time each spring when the roads have been plowed but aren't yet open to motorized vehicles. As conditions allow, bicycles will also be permitted from the East Entrance to the east end of Sylvan Pass, and the South Entrance to West Thumb. Check the Spring and Fall Bicycling page for road segment status.

[Razors Edge ★]

12 minutes ago, denniS said:

They are the local Yellowstone admin. That is where the decision was made. 

GTNP is pretty bike friendly and has a lot of riders. You can rent a bike in the park at Dornan's in Moose. The pathway runs from Moose to Jenny Lake. You can also start in Jackson and ride to Jenny 100% pathway riding. There are multiple bike rental shops in town including one that only has e-bikes and e-bikes are allowed in GTNP. They open the inner park road to non-motorized transportation from late March to April 30. The parking lot at the trailhead is beyond capacity every weekend and parking on the road stretches for another half mile. This year they opened another lot and more road parking. The windy point lot one mile away is usually full too. That's a lot of people on bikes. The bike racks at Jenny are usually full in the summer. GTNP sees a lot of bike traffic and the park is pretty accommodating. 

YNP opens West to Mammoth to bikes for one week. They decided to end the south entrance riding. You can still ride to Flagg Ranch. 

For me this was a once a year ride, so no big deal. If I decide to ride in YNP, it will have to be with cars.

Bicyclists willing to brave the unpredictable elements of spring in Yellowstone can ride 49 miles of park roads from the West Entrance to Mammoth Hot Springs for a small period of time each spring when the roads have been plowed but aren't yet open to motorized vehicles. As conditions allow, bicycles will also be permitted from the East Entrance to the east end of Sylvan Pass, and the South Entrance to West Thumb. Check the Spring and Fall Bicycling page for road segment status.

GTNP gets an average of 9,000 visitors a day.  Yellowstone over 10,000 a day.  Weekends and high season would obviously be 2x to 10x that number.  It would be interesting to see if there were 1,000+ cyclists ever in the park?  That's a lot of cyclists to get to a double digit percentage.  I think GTNP is cycling friendly with its pathway.  Yosemite Valley has a really spaghetti like trail system too - bikes are about the only reasonable way to get around there on a busy weekend.  But it takes real $$$ and commitment to add cycling infrastructure to the level where kids on bikes is safe.  On-road cycling will remain the normal piece, and that results in fewer cyclists, which then produces fewer incentives for the Parks to spend precious dollars on cycling-specific improvements.  I think it is a tough cycle ( ) to break without a firm commitment from the top and a strong push from the advocacy groups.

[dinneR ★]

GTNP just agreed to another connector.

https://www.jhnewsandguide.com/news/town_county/local/county-park-nonprofit-up-ante-for-pricey-bike-path-in-grand-teton/article_583ae88d-68b0-51c5-9e62-b4f60c9f9cc8.html

Teton Park spokeswoman Denise Germann also cheered the collaboration.

“We greatly appreciate the support and collaboration of Teton County and Friends of Pathways,” Germann said. “It’s a community effort, which is wonderful.”

The Teton County Board of County Commissioners voted 5-0 on April 12 to put $265,000 toward the stretch of pavement dubbed the Sagebrush Pathway. The county boosted its commitment after getting feedback from the Federal Highway Administration’s Federal Lands Access Program, or FLAP.

The county, park and pathways nonprofit had applied to FLAP for a grant, asking for the federal government to cover roughly 90%, about $2 million, of the $2.26 million proposal. If completed, that project would see a roughly one-mile-long pathway built on park land, connecting the Jackson Hole Golf and Tennis area to the park’s pathway system.

[Razors Edge ★]

2 minutes ago, denniS said:

GTNP just agreed to another connector.

Yay!  That is great. It is good to have a group working that in your area.

[dinneR ★]

56 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Yay!  That is great. It is good to have a group working that in your area.

This was supposed to happen a few years ago, but the budget got cut. It's nice to see they are going to finish it. One section is about 50 yds and connects to nothing.

[dinneR ★]

https://www.jhnewsandguide.com/news/environmental/south-gate-bike-ban-irks-valley-cyclists/article_4188ff64-e23d-5c2c-bf61-02ca204a26f1.html#utm_source=jhnewsandguide.com&utm_campaign=%2Fnewsletters%2Fheadlines%2F%3F-dc%3D1620225013&utm_medium=email&utm_content=headline

The worrisome snowbanks along the southern entrance cited as a reason for the closure often persist into the summer, Wyoming Pathways Executive Director Tim Young pointed out. But the difference, he said, is the dearth of vehicle traffic prior to the road opening to 30-foot-long RVs, commercial trucks and the usual wide array of passenger vehicles. After Yellowstone rotary plows chew through a winter’s worth of snow, but before the official opening, use is limited to the occasional rangers or concessionaires cruising down the road.

“You might see zero to six cars in a full day’s trip to Yellowstone,” Young said. “Compare that with any given summer day, with 6,000 motor vehicles.”

[Dottleshead ★]

https://www.jhnewsandguide.com/news/environmental/south-gate-bike-ban-irks-valley-cyclists/article_4188ff64-e23d-5c2c-bf61-02ca204a26f1.html

[Dottleshead ★]

Where's the source of your confusion @Razors Edge? 

[Razors Edge ★]

8 minutes ago, Dottles said:

Where's the source of your confusion @Razors Edge? 

Why you just posted the same link as Dennis????

[Dottleshead ★]

1 minute ago, Razors Edge said:

Why you just posted the same link as Dennis????

Oh. I guess because I believe in duplication? That link came up on my phone as I still get data mining messages from his part of the world. That's what happens when you stay a week over there. I probably could spend some time clearing my phone's cache but I kinda like getting messages from there.

[Razors Edge ★]

15 minutes ago, Dottles said:

Oh. I guess because I believe in duplication? That link came up on my phone as I still get data mining messages from his part of the world. That's what happens when you stay a week over there. I probably could spend some time clearing my phone's cache but I kinda like getting messages from there.