Here’s a suggestion: Quit driving like a fukwit

[2Far ★]

 

Quote

Since moving to Nevada, Washington has received dozens of tickets totaling about $4,431

 

In Nevada, drivers can be arrested for unpaid tickets
 

[Razors Edge ★]

26 minutes ago, 2Far said:

 

In Nevada, drivers can be arrested for unpaid tickets
 

Did you not read the article?

"The first time was for a broken taillight" seems to not really be a "fukwit" move.  I'd clearly place the fukwittedness as stuff from the "reckless" or "careless" driving category.  Doing 80 in a 45.  Tailgating.  Wrong way on one way streets.  DUI/DWI.  Doing 35 in an 70.  Weaving in and out of traffic.  All sorts of fukwitterry out there, but busted taillight remains not on that list.  NO brakelights? Yeah.  Busted taillight (singular) is a warning but really ought to be a secondary sort of thing - ie must be breaking a "real" traffic rule and then the taillight becomes an add-on.  

How many times have folks here been pulled over and ticketed SOLELY for a brakelight or taillight or headlight being out?

[ChrisL]

14 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Did you not read the article?

"The first time was for a broken taillight" seems to not really be a "fukwit" move.  I'd clearly place the fukwittedness as stuff from the "reckless" or "careless" driving category.  Doing 80 in a 45.  Tailgating.  Wrong way on one way streets.  DUI/DWI.  Doing 35 in an 70.  Weaving in and out of traffic.  All sorts of fukwitterry out there, but busted taillight remains not on that list.  NO brakelights? Yeah.  Busted taillight (singular) is a warning but really ought to be a secondary sort of thing - ie must be breaking a "real" traffic rule and then the taillight becomes an add-on.  

How many times have folks here been pulled over and ticketed SOLELY for a brakelight or taillight or headlight being out?

A bit of perspective.... That dude looks hinkey, ah cool taillight out, light him up so I can investigate.

I glossed over the article but it looked like it had a racial profiling lean. Person of color in a BMW, can’t be legit so after numerous tickets she can’t pay she ends up in jail... Was that about it? 

FYI in CA many of those types of infractions are called “fix it tickets”. There is no fine if you correct the issue within a certain period of time. Any police officer can then sign off on the citation that the issue has been corrected and the citation goes away. 

[jsharr ★]

Seems sadly like she is guilty of driving while being black.   That just sucks.

[2Far ★]

29 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Did you not read the article?

"The first time was for a broken taillight" seems to not really be a "fukwit" move.  I'd clearly place the fukwittedness as stuff from the "reckless" or "careless" driving category.  Doing 80 in a 45.  Tailgating.  Wrong way on one way streets.  DUI/DWI.  Doing 35 in an 70.  Weaving in and out of traffic.  All sorts of fukwitterry out there, but busted taillight remains not on that list.  NO brakelights? Yeah.  Busted taillight (singular) is a warning but really ought to be a secondary sort of thing - ie must be breaking a "real" traffic rule and then the taillight becomes an add-on.  

How many times have folks here been pulled over and ticketed SOLELY for a brakelight or taillight or headlight being out?

Yeah, but the broken taillight was let off with a warning. As it should have been. 
 

i used to drive like a fukwit. When the insurance premiums were more than my car payment and/or I was 1 point away from losing my license, I (mostly) quit driving like a fukwit. 

[MickinMD ★]

I keep wondering if age (71 on Oct. 1) is making me an ever-grumpier old man, or if driving habits and courtesy have gone to hell.

It seems like many people won't use their blinkers and can't seem to realize they're useful.

There have been times I, stopped at a light, haven't let someone get out of a gas station lot to my right and onto the road in front of me because I didn't know if the driver wanted to go in my direction or block the road for a while trying to cross over my lane and go in the opposite direction.

In lots of cases, there have been cars and trucks that want to change lanes on crowded expressways, but no one's letting them over because no blinker is being used.  Then, running out of road on a lane that has become an exit-only lane, they force their way over.

Etc. Etc. Etc.  Grump! Grump! Grump!

[maddmaxx ★]

51 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Did you not read the article?

"The first time was for a broken taillight" seems to not really be a "fukwit" move.  I'd clearly place the fukwittedness as stuff from the "reckless" or "careless" driving category.  Doing 80 in a 45.  Tailgating.  Wrong way on one way streets.  DUI/DWI.  Doing 35 in an 70.  Weaving in and out of traffic.  All sorts of fukwitterry out there, but busted taillight remains not on that list.  NO brakelights? Yeah.  Busted taillight (singular) is a warning but really ought to be a secondary sort of thing - ie must be breaking a "real" traffic rule and then the taillight becomes an add-on.  

How many times have folks here been pulled over and ticketed SOLELY for a brakelight or taillight or headlight being out?

I have been stopped more than once for not displaying a front license plate properly.

 

Yep.  On the Daytona the front license plate screw holes were on the bottom of the nose which left the plate pointing down, only about 30 deg or so up from parallel to the road.  Car was designed that way but VA police didn't like it.  They would let me go if I got out and bent the plate downward till it was almost straight up and down.  I would have to pound it back to flat as soon as they were out of sight because the primary air intake to the radiator was right behind the plate.  I was stopped often enough that the plate became damaged.  I enquired of the dmv how to rectify the situation and they asked that I fabricate something out of angle iron that would put the plate upright on top of the nose.  Needless to say I continued on as a scofflaw only bending the plate when stopped.

[dinneR ★]

Driving with broken taillight is not a fukwit move. Do you check your taillight every time you get in the car? I don't. I could have one out now. It should be a warning, get it fixed. 

Gov't should not be relying on tickets for revenue. Taxes should pay for local gov't. This system is designed to go after people who can afford it the least. 

Washington is among thousands of people in Nevada with warrants out for their arrest because they have not paid traffic tickets. And it doesn’t affect everyone equally: A 2003 study found racial disparities in traffic stops, with Black and Hispanic drivers more likely than whites to be pulled over statewide and in Las Vegas.

State lawmakers are currently debating a bill that would decriminalize those minor traffic offenses. Similar measures have come up four times since 2011, but have failed to pass after courts and local governments complained that the loss of revenue from fees collected on warrants would wreck their budgets. They’ve made the same argument this time around.

[Dottleshead ★]

I wonder if she'll hit the jackpot?

[JerrySTL ★]

4 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

How many times have folks here been pulled over and ticketed SOLELY for a brakelight or taillight or headlight being out?

My daughter-in-law is friends with an Illinois state cop. His biggest drug bust came after pulling someone over for the rear license plate light being out!

[Dottleshead ★]

8 minutes ago, JerrySTL said:

My daughter-in-law is friends with an Illinois state cop. His biggest drug bust came after pulling someone over for the rear license plate light being out!

Seems to be worst in small towns.  It's true those folks are looking for income.  Check your car lights people.  I'd hate to see some of the fine folks in here get busted for drugs because their tail light was out.

[Thaddeus Kosciuszko]

9 hours ago, denniS said:

A 2003 study found racial disparities in traffic stops, with Black and Hispanic drivers more likely than whites to be pulled over statewide and in Las Vegas.

I'd be interested in looking at the data to see if there were other factors than race that determined 'likelihood' that someone would be pulled over.  And I'd be interested in data collected since 2003 to see if the trends/conclusions remained the same over years up until today.

[ChrisL]

38 minutes ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said:

I'd be interested in looking at the data to see if there were other factors than race that determined 'likelihood' that someone would be pulled over.  And I'd be interested in data collected since 2003 to see if the trends/conclusions remained the same over years up until today.

I think this would be hard to quantify but from my own personal experience we profiled the bell out of the Hispanic community.  Also because a vast majority of our calls were due to Hispanic offenders.  Did we jam perfectly innocent Hispanics? Yeah, yeah we did.  Did Hispanic citizens get tickets they may not have deserved?  Yeah, yeah they did.  

But we also jammed white folks in Hispanic neighborhoods.  Why? Because they were probably buying drugs.  Did we pull over white people for questionable reasons?  Yeah, yeah we did.  Did affluent white people buy drugs in these neighborhoods, yeah, yeah they did.  Did our efforts make a difference?  Probably not...

I’m 100% certain profiling occurs solely due to someone’s race but usually other factors are in place as well. 

[dinneR ★]

1 hour ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said:

I'd be interested in looking at the data to see if there were other factors than race that determined 'likelihood' that someone would be pulled over.  And I'd be interested in data collected since 2003 to see if the trends/conclusions remained the same over years up until today.

I would too. This is further down.

The University of Nevada researchers looked at Las Vegas Municipal Court and found that 83 percent of 102,000 bench warrants issued from 2012 to 2020 were for unpaid traffic fines. Most of those warrants were for administrative infractions like failure to pay, driving without a license or having no insurance. The majority of warrants were issued to people who lived in the Las Vegas region’s poorest areas. Black people make up 13 percent of Clark County’s population, but 44 percent of the open warrants.

“Ultimately, the Nevada system of fines and fees criminalizes poverty and reinforces racial disparities,” the researchers concluded.

 

It's a stupid way to fund Gov't. They are going after those who can afford it the least. People who can't afford an attorney. 

 

The longer a bill goes unpaid, the more fines and fees are added to it. For example, a $300 ticket given to Washington in 2014 for driving with a suspended registration grew to $1,280.

 One fee, first imposed by the state in 1980 to offset losses in federal funding for courts, began as a $10 “administrative assessment” on all misdemeanors. It has grown to $120, and is one of many fees that help fund courts and other parts of the criminal justice system.

Since moving to Nevada, Washington has received dozens of tickets totaling about $4,431, a debt that ballooned to more than $20,000 with additional fines and fees, according to data analyzed by a law clinic that recently began helping her. She has paid more than $11,000, and the clinic’s volunteer lawyers helped her get some of the fines and fees waived. But she still owes $1,886.

 

[maddmaxx ★]

How does one get dozens of tickets?

[Tizeye]

But it is fun!

Remember as a teen that driving back from the beach through a desolate stretch of 2 lane roadway with my girlfriend/date. Passed a car who then pulled me over. Turns out is was a Fish and Game Commission car and the stated girlfriend looked at them really weird. They could tell she wasn't 'in distress asking for help' and I pointed out that both their tail lights were out creating a silhouette of a car against the front headlights. The looked, thanked me and let me go on my way.

Another time was a 'fix it' situation. Military exercise beginning at 4AM and built a medical tent hospital in the desert by 10AM, beating the heat. On way home was speeding on a several mile secondary road that stretched through a flood basin. Group of sheriffs with radar on top of hill as ground elevates, and one pulled me over. He was a former 1st sgt and did his heart good to see an officer all grungy getting hands dirty rather than ordering enlisted troops to perform the tasks. But had a problem as had to cite me for something to report back to his buddies a the speed trap. He told me NOT to find my insurance which he cited me for...then only had to shoe I had insurance effective on that date and was dismissed.

Most recent was this weekend. While I did keep my speed control at 80, was amazed how many cars passed me. No problem until hit New Jersey. Apparently a bad accident with "expect delays" sign illuminated and noting left lane totally blocked. I moved to center lane but was blocked from exit, after which all traffic came to an absolute stop in all lanes. Could see an Amazon Prime 18 wheeler in bend about a mile away, not moving based on a roadway sign. After sitting about 15 minutes and the truck still hadn't moved - and no emergency vehicles barreling past along the shoulder, took the opportunity to re-live my teen years. Motioned to the car in the outside lane who gad a significant open gap that I intended to go through it. Went through in my Mini, jumped the curb onto the grass of the exit/entrance landscaping, popped down the curb on the other side along the exit ramp...and then let my GPS navigate me based on the roads I had seen while evaluating the situation. Halfway through, it got the update that there was a major traffic issue and got me back on the road a little further down.

[groupw]

I’ve been arrested for parking tickets. It happens. I explained the story somewhere here a while back. I was poor. It hurt financially to get it straightened out.

I have been stopped for a headlight out a few times. The most recent I had the headlight I just purchased in the car. Officer asked why I hadn’t replaced it when I bought it. I asked if he had ever replaced a headlight in a Mazda 6. I told him I prefer not to do it in the Walmart parking lot when it’s 20 degrees with a 15 mph wind in the dark. I would do it in my driveway. Gave me a fix it ticket and I installed when I got home. 

[Tizeye]

Wife was pulled in her Miata during evening rush hour for not paying toll. He saw the EPass in her windshield and confirmed there was sufficient funds in account with no outstanding.  This was the prior generation that required a battery which was dead. Advised to go to Lowes for the free battery replacement and no ticket. However, he then pulls out into the traffic assisted with his flashing lights but left her to feed for herself, merging in with her Miata.

[Wilbur ★]

2 hours ago, maddmaxx said:

How does one get dozens of tickets?

Exactly.   

[Razors Edge ★]

6 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Exactly.   

I thought it was well explained by Chris a couple posts above you and Maxx:

I think this would be hard to quantify but from my own personal experience we profiled the bell out of the Hispanic community.  Also because a vast majority of our calls were due to Hispanic offenders.  Did we jam perfectly innocent Hispanics? Yeah, yeah we did.  Did Hispanic citizens get tickets they may not have deserved?  Yeah, yeah they did.  

But we also jammed white folks in Hispanic neighborhoods.  Why? Because they were probably buying drugs.  Did we pull over white people for questionable reasons?  Yeah, yeah we did.  Did affluent white people buy drugs in these neighborhoods, yeah, yeah they did.  Did our efforts make a difference?  Probably not...

I’m 100% certain profiling occurs solely due to someone’s race but usually other factors are in place as well. 

[Wilbur ★]

3 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

I thought it was well explained by Chris a couple posts above you and Maxx:

I think this would be hard to quantify but from my own personal experience we profiled the bell out of the Hispanic community.  Also because a vast majority of our calls were due to Hispanic offenders.  Did we jam perfectly innocent Hispanics? Yeah, yeah we did.  Did Hispanic citizens get tickets they may not have deserved?  Yeah, yeah they did.  

But we also jammed white folks in Hispanic neighborhoods.  Why? Because they were probably buying drugs.  Did we pull over white people for questionable reasons?  Yeah, yeah we did.  Did affluent white people buy drugs in these neighborhoods, yeah, yeah they did.  Did our efforts make a difference?  Probably not...

I’m 100% certain profiling occurs solely due to someone’s race but usually other factors are in place as well. 

It is a racist world, with no innocents.  Sometimes, that works in your favour as in the "Mexican racist" cop incident recently in LA.  

[Razors Edge ★]

Just now, Wilbur said:

It is a racist world, with no innocents.  Sometimes, that works in your favour as in the "Mexican racist" cop incident recently in LA.  

So you DO understand it?  See.  It's just that simple.

[Wilbur ★]

1 minute ago, Razors Edge said:

So you DO understand it?  See.  It's just that simple.

You have to be able to police all people.   She may have viewed it as racism but the cop saw it as law enforcement. 

[2Far ★]

3 hours ago, maddmaxx said:

How does one get dozens of tickets?

Driving like a fukwit is a a leading cause.

But, without knowing further details, a lot of her tickets were probably kind of compounded issues. Unpaid insurance -> canceled insurance -> ticket for "suspended registration". Unpaid ticket(s) -> suspended license -> ticket for "driving on suspended license".

Also, we have cop cars here with vehicle tag recognition (dunno if Vegas has the same). They can drive around and the system will alert them to vehicle tags with a flag: expired; no insurance, registered owner's license suspension; wants & warrants on the car's owner, etc.

FWIW, Bo2 drove like a fukwit. Also, he refused to pay his $25/week child support. The communist state of Maryland suspended his drivers license because of unpaid child support. He lived in a town with no stoplight and literally more Amish than people with cars. He drove a flaming red Cheby pick-up. When they got tired of pulling him over for no license, they would throw him in the clink where here got child support credit for time served (like $40/week) and when he owed less then the threshold, they'd let him out. Rinse - repeat.

[Razors Edge ★]

2 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

You have to be able to police all people.   She may have viewed it as racism but the cop saw it as law enforcement. 

Yep.  That's why we look at an aggregate, and not a onesie-twosie sort of thing. 

[Wilbur ★]

1 minute ago, Razors Edge said:

Yep.  That's why we look at an aggregate, and not a onesie-twosie sort of thing. 

Exactly!  So not one tail light ticket, more like dozens of speeding tickets. 

See, I do get it.   

[Razors Edge ★]

1 minute ago, 2Far said:

FWIW, Bo2 drove like a fukwit. Also, he refused to pay his $25/week child support. The communist state of Maryland suspended his drivers license because of unpaid child support. He lived in a town with no stoplight and literally more Amish than people with cars. He drove a flaming red Cheby pick-up. When they got tired of pulling him over for no license, they would throw him in the clink where here got child support credit for time served (like $40/week) and when he owed less then the threshold, they'd let him out. Rinse - repeat.

I think he LIVED like a fukwit, and the diving was a bit of a side gig? 

[Razors Edge ★]

1 minute ago, Wilbur said:

Exactly!  So not one tail light ticket, more like dozens of speeding tickets. 

See, I do get it.   

Speeding tickets would be fukwittery!  Especially of the 10+ over the limit kind.

[2Far ★]

3 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Yep.  That's why we look at an aggregate, and not a onesie-twosie sort of thing. 

But that's not how it gets reported in the news.

[2Far ★]

5 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

I think he LIVED like a fukwit, and the diving was a bit of a side gig? 

Precisely.

Same Bo2 who shot the water heater with a high powered rifle.

[maddmaxx ★]

58 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

I thought it was well explained by Chris a couple posts above you and Maxx:

I think this would be hard to quantify but from my own personal experience we profiled the bell out of the Hispanic community.  Also because a vast majority of our calls were due to Hispanic offenders.  Did we jam perfectly innocent Hispanics? Yeah, yeah we did.  Did Hispanic citizens get tickets they may not have deserved?  Yeah, yeah they did.  

But we also jammed white folks in Hispanic neighborhoods.  Why? Because they were probably buying drugs.  Did we pull over white people for questionable reasons?  Yeah, yeah we did.  Did affluent white people buy drugs in these neighborhoods, yeah, yeah they did.  Did our efforts make a difference?  Probably not...

I’m 100% certain profiling occurs solely due to someone’s race but usually other factors are in place as well. 

Are you assuming that in this case they were all profiled tickets?  It happens yes but dozens???

[Razors Edge ★]

29 minutes ago, 2Far said:

But that's not how it gets reported in the news.

You're link looked at the specific (the lady) and then all that aggregate stuff Dennis quoted. I think the news folks were likely trying to put a human face on the stats? Or had a human face, and then built a broader story around it?

[maddmaxx ★]

1 minute ago, Razors Edge said:

You're link looked at the specific (the lady) and then all that aggregate stuff Dennis quoted. I think the news folks were likely trying to put a human face on the stats? Or had a human face, and then built a broader story around it?

I'm questioning that one case.  Dozens......all profiled????  Sometimes things are used to force a story that don't seem to fit.

[Razors Edge ★]

3 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

I'm questioning that one case.  Dozens......all profiled????  Sometimes things are used to force a story that don't seem to fit.

Give the reporter a call (or an e-mail)?

He's all over the internet!

[dinneR ★]

1 hour ago, maddmaxx said:

I'm questioning that one case.  Dozens......all profiled????  Sometimes things are used to force a story that don't seem to fit.

You could read the story.   It's an option. 

In Nevada, drivers can be arrested for unpaid tickets. Activists are fighting to change that.

Her $4,431 in traffic tickets ballooned to $20,000 in debt and the threat of arrest. The system is “money hungry," she said.

[maddmaxx ★]

11 minutes ago, denniS said:

You could read the story.   It's an option. 

In Nevada, drivers can be arrested for unpaid tickets. Activists are fighting to change that.

Her $4,431 in traffic tickets ballooned to $20,000 in debt and the threat of arrest. The system is “money hungry," she said.

I acknowledge that happened.  I asked how one gets dozens of tickets in the first place?  After a couple doesn't one change enough to avoid more?

And, in spite of the snark, yes I did read the story.  It states that she continued to get tickets even after changing cars.  What the article doesn't mention is what the tickets were for.  I don't like it when authors gloss over the reasons after using part of the data to imply that they were all unjustified.

Is there a claim that speeding at 10 over and getting a ticket is unfair.  If so you never want to drive through the small towns up and down the east coast where the police sit by a 35 mph sign at the town limits and pull over everyone over that speed.  No bias.  Over is over as far as they are concerned.  If you drive through there you slow down to 33 or 34 before the sign.

[dinneR ★]

11 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

I acknowledge that happened.  I asked how one gets dozens of tickets in the first place?  After a couple doesn't one change enough to avoid more?

And, in spite of the snark, yes I did read the story.  It states that she continued to get tickets even after changing cars.  What the article doesn't mention is what the tickets were for.  I don't like it when authors gloss over the reasons after using part of the data to imply that they were all unjustified.

Is there a claim that speeding at 10 over and getting a ticket is unfair.  If so you never want to drive through the small towns up and down the east coast where the police sit by a 35 mph sign at the town limits and pull over everyone over that speed.  No bias.  Over is over as far as they are concerned.  If you drive through there you slow down to 33 or 34 before the sign.

Snark? fukwit isn't snark?

The point of the story is the punitive damages of traffic violations. The Gov't entities admit they don't want the bill to pass because it will wreck their budget. 

[maddmaxx ★]

1 hour ago, denniS said:

Snark? fukwit isn't snark?

The point of the story is the punitive damages of traffic violations. The Gov't entities admit they don't want the bill to pass because it will wreck their budget. 

The punitive damages may indeed be a problem.  I'm simply commenting that articles like this use lots of words and very little data about the actual tickets so that the implication is that the tickets are all unfair.  Some might be.  Dozens are unlikely to be.  Even the first stop for the broken tail light resulted in just a warning.

The question remains.  How does one get dozens of tickets?  Was it really because she was black or might it have been because she's always speeding and getting caught.  We can't tell from the article.

Racism is real but not everything that happens to an african american is racist.

[dinneR ★]

29 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

The punitive damages may indeed be a problem.  I'm simply commenting that articles like this use lots of words and very little data about the actual tickets so that the implication is that the tickets are all unfair.  Some might be.  Dozens are unlikely to be.  Even the first stop for the broken tail light resulted in just a warning.

The question remains.  How does one get dozens of tickets?  Was it really because she was black or might it have been because she's always speeding and getting caught.  We can't tell from the article.

Racism is real but not everything that happens to an african american is racist.

May indeed? It is what the article is about. $4k in violations balloons to $20k.

The question doesn't remain. It's not what the article is about. Another article about that topic might be interesting, but that is not the topic of the article.

[maddmaxx ★]

53 minutes ago, denniS said:

May indeed? It is what the article is about. $4k in violations balloons to $20k.

The question doesn't remain. It's not what the article is about. Another article about that topic might be interesting, but that is not the topic of the article.

Articles like this that are vague are written with purpose.  Critical reading tell us that there may be more to the story than the author wants to write about.  I've already agreed that the premise of the article may be correct.  It's the methodology I object to.  

I still think that it's important to know how she got dozens of tickets and how that can be brushed aside so quickly while being at the center of the issue.

[Razors Edge ★]

On 5/10/2021 at 3:52 AM, maddmaxx said:

How does one get dozens of tickets?

Interesting story a while back on the Florida folks voting to raise the speed limit from 70 to 75.

A small sample (160) but pretty indicative of how privilege and power play a different part in things:

The Scripps Florida Investigative Team spent four months requesting driving records for the 160 lawmakers who will vote on a bill to increase the speed limit on some state highways. Of the 160 legislators reviewed, records show 35 have 10 or more violations on their driving record -- 11 have 20 or more violations.