shootingstar Posted May 29, 2021 Share #1 Posted May 29, 2021 Was chatting with a lawyer. Her area of expertise is alternative dispute resolution where she tries to bring 2 sides with lawyers to reach an agreement outside of the court process, which latter can be quite costly. Been lawyering in this area over last 25 yrs...it's divorce/child custody mediation and estate mediation that her practice covers. She said latter in estate battles within a family, ie. among siblings can be quite terrible because in the end, you can't say a person is no longer your sibling. They are part of your family. Whereas in a divorce, you are divorced and the relationship can be cut off (well, eventually). Whenever I hear some doe-eyed youngster wanting to be a lawyer, I think: do they really know that's about billable hrs., being adversarial/ruining some positive human relationships? It's not much about the flashy court appearances we see on TV. I've known some lawyers who don't want to appear in court of advocate for client. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisL Posted May 29, 2021 Share #2 Posted May 29, 2021 One of my sisters is a workman’s comp attorney & represents the insurance company. She’s been doing it 30+ years & hates everything about her job except the paycheck. The company is going through a huge lay off and they are shuttering her office. She was initially given a April 30 end date but after laying off all support staff & Jr Attorneys earlier in the year they told the Senior Attorneys they have to stay until the end of the year or forfeit their package. She is so ready to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingstar Posted May 29, 2021 Author Share #3 Posted May 29, 2021 1 hour ago, ChrisL said: One of my sisters is a workman’s comp attorney & represents the insurance company. She’s been doing it 30+ years & hates everything about her job except the paycheck. The company is going through a huge lay off and they are shuttering her office. She was initially given a April 30 end date but after laying off all support staff & Jr Attorneys earlier in the year they told the Senior Attorneys they have to stay until the end of the year or forfeit their package. She is so ready to move on. Well....she lost the innocent optimism long ago. Workers' comp is a tricky area of law. I hope she gets a pension somehow intact. But at least not as dull as....tax law. God...dullest area of law as viewed by other lawyer specialists. There are some lawyers whose personality is a fit for the courtroom. But honestly not that many. Parts of lawyering is knowing and filling in the right forms correctly, submitting to right place and then other work, is dry, textual analysis of reams of evidence. Drafting new /revising legislation is a craft in itself and requires working with subject experts alot.. after dealing with public opinion. On the job, earlier this wk., I submitted something to our law dept....it was asking for sign-off changing how long our organization should handle/keep freedom of information case files. Before lawyer stage, we had 2 corporate wide meetings involving 40 depts. The good thing about all this..is more people are now better informed about a better process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted May 29, 2021 Share #4 Posted May 29, 2021 My oldest has a law degree from Osgood Hall. What she learned from it was that she really didn't want to make a career in law. She is in HR now. I wish she would have learned that before law school tuitions. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddmaxx ★ Posted May 29, 2021 Share #5 Posted May 29, 2021 IMO I picked the right profession......or it picked my quite by accident. No good paychecks in it though as in many establishments there are grad students living out of backpacks competing for positions. Companies get into the habit of paying research staff peanuts. The only years my income was up higher were the ones where I worked under contract as a consultant. I loved the work, but never made a lot of money at it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattlecan ★ Posted May 29, 2021 Share #6 Posted May 29, 2021 I picked the right profession for having stories to tell sitting around in my old age. ( Some of them are even partly true) Not so much for the money it brought in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingstar Posted May 29, 2021 Author Share #7 Posted May 29, 2021 1 hour ago, Rattlecan said: I picked the right profession for having stories to tell sitting around in my old age. ( Some of them are even partly true) Not so much for the money it brought in. I already tell stories on the 'Net with photos..not exactly rocking big metrics in terms of followers. That's ok.. I'm not pleasing the universe. Lately it's actually proven useful if there's a running thread of core themes, values with supporting photos. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikeman564™ Posted May 29, 2021 Share #8 Posted May 29, 2021 I like engineering...mostly, except them damn TPS reports Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsnip Totin Jack ★ Posted May 29, 2021 Share #9 Posted May 29, 2021 I landed pretty good. Most people don't understand what Internal Audit or Risk Management does. We work to keep it that way. Good job security too. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisL Posted May 29, 2021 Share #10 Posted May 29, 2021 13 hours ago, shootingstar said: Well....she lost the innocent optimism long ago. Workers' comp is a tricky area of law. I hope she gets a pension somehow intact. She can and probably will retire and then do something fun to keep her busy. Maybe work at a ranch or feed store... The firm is offering a golden parachute that is only offered if she sticks it out through the end of the year. I wanted to be a cop since my early teens. It was my dream job. I kept out of trouble as a youth & joined the military with an ultimate goal of civilian law enforcement. When I finally got there I was in for a rude awakening and realized it wasn’t what I had envisioned and so left. I never really chose another profession, I just kind of fell into it by accident... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphie ★ Posted May 29, 2021 Share #11 Posted May 29, 2021 20 minutes ago, Old No. 7 said: I landed pretty good. Most people don't understand what Internal Audit or Risk Management does. We work to keep it that way. Good job security too. Did I ever tell you the story of the cute little credit union where I first worked that had a few people who were on the take? It was pretty surprising, but I guess I am naive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Zephyr Posted May 29, 2021 Popular Post Share #12 Posted May 29, 2021 I have met and worked with (and against) many, many lawyers in my career, literally hundreds if not a thousand. The one common thread among all of them is, none of them want to be in court. They much prefer proof-read written submissions over the fear of making a mistake with the spoken word. As for my profession, I am one of the rare cases where my passion ended up being my job. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddmaxx ★ Posted May 29, 2021 Share #13 Posted May 29, 2021 Everything that went before became training for the last 15 year of work. In the laser research (and commercial production) company that I worked for I got to put equipment in orbit, at the south pole, into Nikon machinery that made integrated circuits, into several varieties of missile guidance jamming systems, into the machines that made your cell phone and televisions and into the biggest laser gun you ever saw. Every day was new stuff and always interesting. Then we got bought by a commercial company that didn't want to do any of that. They wanted to make this quarters management stock options bigger than last quarters. Then they laid us off to cut costs. The fun stopped. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Kosciuszko Posted May 29, 2021 Share #14 Posted May 29, 2021 Mama, don't let your babies grow up to be engineers. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingstar Posted May 29, 2021 Author Share #15 Posted May 29, 2021 35 minutes ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said: Mama, don't let your babies grow up to be engineers. My professor brother-in-law teaches engineering sciences to undergrad students and he probably supervises some post-grad students on their research seems wedded to his job. He's been in academia only --fusion energy / quantum physics is his research area. Since his wife's death (11 yrs. ago), he probably now has uber-focused on work. I recently heard he hopes to work until past 70 yrs. He is same age as I, so I find this slightly strange. (I like my job too but there's other stuff.) Seriously, he earns a handsome salary..he's listed in annual public lists of non-profit sector employees who earn over minimum 6 figures. I honestly think at least, he should spend his money by doing some travelling. (He only travels overseas by tacking on vacation after an international scientific conference.) He's a sociable, humble guy, never throws around his PhD knowledge in family gatherings and if asked he makes brief simple explanations and drops the topic. He cares for his 2 adult children who are each married, talks to them often. His daughter, who graduated from and worked in geotechnical engineering, dropped out of the profession after 4 yrs. of field work and consulting ...to write romance novels. She's alot happier even though she has to hustle-write and doesn't earn as much moolah. She might have entered into engineering because she didn't know life beyond STEM/her father's encouragement. I know she wasn't happy at all in her engineering studies ...I suspect it was the wrong fit. However she knows it's handy to be doing some sophisticated number-crunching for life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR46 Posted May 29, 2021 Share #16 Posted May 29, 2021 In the factory machines broke down every day and every day I fixed broken machines in the factory. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dottleshead ★ Posted May 29, 2021 Share #17 Posted May 29, 2021 We call those arbitrators down here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphie ★ Posted May 29, 2021 Share #18 Posted May 29, 2021 2 hours ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said: Mama, don't let your babies grow up to be engineers. I feel bad because daughter #2 went into that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattlecan ★ Posted May 29, 2021 Share #19 Posted May 29, 2021 3 hours ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said: Mama, don't let your babies grow up to be engineers. Ed Bruce was too late writing that song for my mama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingstar Posted May 29, 2021 Author Share #20 Posted May 29, 2021 1 hour ago, Philander Seabury said: I feel bad because daughter #2 went into that. Is she enjoying it? Or at least doesn't hate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Kosciuszko Posted May 29, 2021 Share #21 Posted May 29, 2021 1 hour ago, Philander Seabury said: I feel bad because daughter #2 went into that. I think you needn't worry, as I can easily imagine that your daughter would be the exception to the rule in that she is personable, sociable, knows how to pick out matching shoes and socks, sees real colors in addition to black and white, and has never owned a pocket protector. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoseySusan Posted May 29, 2021 Share #22 Posted May 29, 2021 If not education then law. But now I’m leaning toward journalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickinMD ★ Posted May 29, 2021 Share #23 Posted May 29, 2021 21 hours ago, shootingstar said: She said latter in estate battles within a family, ie. among siblings can be quite terrible because in the end, you can't say a person is no longer your sibling. They are part of your family. They can also be quire terrible when siblings and their children think they're being cheated! My childless Uncle John would ordinarily have left his estate to his nieces and nephews, but with all of us at least middle-aged and most of his 8 siblings living in 1994 when he died, he had complicated his will by leaving each of his siblings 1 share of his main estate (he left some property to specific individuals) for each living child they had or leave it to niece or nephew if their blood-related parent was dead. There were 20 of us and each share came to about $15,000. My Aunt Martha got $60,000. My mother got $45,000 plus another $10,000 or so as co-executor of the will. My Aunt Sally got $15.000. SEE the problem? My Aunt Sally's only child, a multi-millionaire, has been like a sister to my siblings and me because our mothers were very close. But that only child raised screamed bloody murder and cussed out my mother, by far her favorite aunt, on the phone because of one goofy thing: she said, "I'll sue and the lawyers will get it and everyone won't get shit!" The goofy thing was that Uncle John has specifically left his "car" to his sister Sally. But by the time he died, he had sold the car for a truck that was old and beat-up and had a value of about $800. THIS $800 drop in the bucket - which would be $40 per share if thrown in with the main estate - caused a family war from people getting at least $15,000 or whose mother or father was getting $15,000 because of them being alive. That was in 1994 and there are STILL some hard feelings in our very-large extended family - especially toward Aunt Sally's daughter, though my classy mother acted as if nothing bad had been done and still cared for her. The daughter cried more than anyone else, sobbing when I told her my mother had terminal breast cancer in 2002. Go figure! My mother, the youngest child and best liked in the family, sent a document to each person in the will telling them to sign and say the "truck" is the "car" and to give it to sister Sally. Everyone did. Sally was 74 and couldn't drive the truck and it was given to her SiL, who rightly said it was an undependable piece of shit and traded it to a guy for some yard work. Among us 20 cousins, there are a few selfish types. A couple of them demanded the $15,000 from their parents that would have gone to them if Uncle John had died when they were young adults. My sister, brother, and I told Mom to blow her $55,000 on vacations, QVC and HSN, etc. and don't save it for us: we were all homeowners with good jobs. And when I later took her with us on an Alaska Cruise and on two weeks in France, I paid for her trips anyway. THAT's how you should treat your parents! There were several other ridiculous arguments. Uncle John owned stock and had the certificates in his possession. Some was from companies that had gone bankrupt and the lawyer assisting the co-executors - my mother and my cousin Eleanor - wrongly told them it was worthless and to throw it away. I told mom and Eleanor, "Wait! Even though it's bankrupt it may be worth something!" It turned out the bankrupt companies' stock was worth about $4,000. That generated a new argument from older cousins who used to come to Baltimore in the summers and babysit toddler me as teenagers and still, to this day, think of me as a kid. "Hey, that's Mickey's money - that should be added to Aunt Helen's (my mother's) inheritance." I killed that real quick: I wasn't about to alienate members of a very-close extended family. And it went on and on and on. When my mother and Eleanor were done with what took a year to finalize, they said they'd NEVER get involved again. To their credit, everyone in the family is grateful for the way they handled the will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bikeguy Posted May 29, 2021 Share #24 Posted May 29, 2021 1 hour ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said: I think you needn't worry, as I can easily imagine that your daughter would be the exception to the rule in that she is personable, sociable, knows how to pick out matching shoes and socks, sees real colors in addition to black and white, and has never owned a pocket protector. For the record... I never owned a pocket protector. I do have 3 HP calculators that most people can't use. (no equals key) 2 hours ago, Philander Seabury said: I feel bad because daughter #2 went into that. I wouldn't worry... Is she still in college? And then there is this. >>> https://www.collegechoice.net/25-highest-paying-careers-college-graduates/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted May 29, 2021 Share #25 Posted May 29, 2021 I know a hundred folks who hate their jobs - from lawyers to doctors to engineers to teachers to massage therapists to hair stylists to .... Nearly an endless list. And then I know a few folks who LOVE their jobs - from lawyers to doctors to engineers to teachers to massage therapists to hair stylists. We've been working with an estate lawyer for several months now. She's a hoot. I don't think she loves nor hates her job, but most days it beats many alternatives. My tax attorney is a really nice and smart guy who has been really helpful in recent years. Maybe he hates his job, but you don't get that feeling when you are working with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingstar Posted May 29, 2021 Author Share #26 Posted May 29, 2021 1 hour ago, MickinMD said: They can also be quire terrible when siblings and their children think they're being cheated! My childless Uncle John would ordinarily have left his estate to his nieces and nephews, but with all of us at least middle-aged and most of his 8 siblings living in 1994 when he died, he had complicated his will by leaving each of his siblings 1 share of his main estate (he left some property to specific individuals) for each living child they had or leave it to niece or nephew if their blood-related parent was dead. There were 20 of us and each share came to about $15,000. My Aunt Martha got $60,000. My mother got $45,000 plus another $10,000 or so as co-executor of the will. My Aunt Sally got $15.000. SEE the problem? My Aunt Sally's only child, a multi-millionaire, has been like a sister to my siblings and me because our mothers were very close. But that only child raised screamed bloody murder and cussed out my mother, by far her favorite aunt, on the phone because of one goofy thing: she said, "I'll sue and the lawyers will get it and everyone won't get shit!" The goofy thing was that Uncle John has specifically left his "car" to his sister Sally. But by the time he died, he had sold the car for a truck that was old and beat-up and had a value of about $800. THIS $800 drop in the bucket - which would be $40 per share if thrown in with the main estate - caused a family war from people getting at least $15,000 or whose mother or father was getting $15,000 because of them being alive. That was in 1994 and there are STILL some hard feelings in our very-large extended family - especially toward Aunt Sally's daughter, though my classy mother acted as if nothing bad had been done and still cared for her. The daughter cried more than anyone else, sobbing when I told her my mother had terminal breast cancer in 2002. Go figure! My mother, the youngest child and best liked in the family, sent a document to each person in the will telling them to sign and say the "truck" is the "car" and to give it to sister Sally. Everyone did. Sally was 74 and couldn't drive the truck and it was given to her SiL, who rightly said it was an undependable piece of shit and traded it to a guy for some yard work. Among us 20 cousins, there are a few selfish types. A couple of them demanded the $15,000 from their parents that would have gone to them if Uncle John had died when they were young adults. My sister, brother, and I told Mom to blow her $55,000 on vacations, QVC and HSN, etc. and don't save it for us: we were all homeowners with good jobs. And when I later took her with us on an Alaska Cruise and on two weeks in France, I paid for her trips anyway. THAT's how you should treat your parents! There were several other ridiculous arguments. Uncle John owned stock and had the certificates in his possession. Some was from companies that had gone bankrupt and the lawyer assisting the co-executors - my mother and my cousin Eleanor - wrongly told them it was worthless and to throw it away. I told mom and Eleanor, "Wait! Even though it's bankrupt it may be worth something!" It turned out the bankrupt companies' stock was worth about $4,000. That generated a new argument from older cousins who used to come to Baltimore in the summers and babysit toddler me as teenagers and still, to this day, think of me as a kid. "Hey, that's Mickey's money - that should be added to Aunt Helen's (my mother's) inheritance." I killed that real quick: I wasn't about to alienate members of a very-close extended family. And it went on and on and on. When my mother and Eleanor were done with what took a year to finalize, they said they'd NEVER get involved again. To their credit, everyone in the family is grateful for the way they handled the will. Wow. 1 hour ago, MickinMD said: They can also be quire terrible when siblings and their children think they're being cheated! My childless Uncle John would ordinarily have left his estate to his nieces and nephews, but with all of us at least middle-aged and most of his 8 siblings living in 1994 when he died, he had complicated his will by leaving each of his siblings 1 share of his main estate (he left some property to specific individuals) for each living child they had or leave it to niece or nephew if their blood-related parent was dead. There were 20 of us and each share came to about $15,000. My Aunt Martha got $60,000. My mother got $45,000 plus another $10,000 or so as co-executor of the will. My Aunt Sally got $15.000. SEE the problem? .......................... THIS $800 drop in the bucket - which would be $40 per share if thrown in with the main estate - caused a family war from people getting at least $15,000 or whose mother or father was getting $15,000 because of them being alive. That was in 1994 and there are STILL some hard feelings in our very-large extended family - especially toward Aunt Sally's daughter, though my classy mother acted as if nothing bad had been done and still cared for her. The daughter cried more than anyone else, sobbing when I told her my mother had terminal breast cancer in 2002. Go figure! My mother, the youngest child and best liked in the family, sent a document to each person in the will telling them to sign and say the "truck" is the "car" and to give it to sister Sally. Everyone did. Sally was 74 and couldn't drive the truck and it was given to her SiL, who rightly said it was an undependable piece of shit and traded it to a guy for some yard work. Among us 20 cousins, there are a few selfish types. A couple of them demanded the $15,000 from their parents that would have gone to them if Uncle John had died when they were young adults. My sister, brother, and I told Mom to blow her $55,000 on vacations, QVC and HSN, etc. and don't save it for us: we were all homeowners with good jobs. And when I later took her with us on an Alaska Cruise and on two weeks in France, I paid for her trips anyway. THAT's how you should treat your parents! I agree, that is how one should treat their parents after at least 2 decades of raising a child..and all those costs that come with it. Let's put it this way: dearie's adult 2 children, will discover that their inheritance is not going be as big as they thought, if their lawyer continues to bill his time as gatekeeper / saviour / gladiator for them and also after paying probate tax which in British Columbia can be a bit high (Alberta is alot cheaper...). I actually think at this time, the 2 children (in their 40's) are incredibly naive how much their lawyer will bill them. For the lst time in her life, daughter is dealing with a lawyer. Son had minor exposure when he and wife bought their house. Son never had to worry about business, because dearie wrote out the contract /lease...he had experience in contracts drafting and negotiations in his career. The objective of a lawyer is to defend and to hell, with healing relationships in a family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingstar Posted May 30, 2021 Author Share #27 Posted May 30, 2021 46 minutes ago, Razors Edge said: I know a hundred folks who hate their jobs - from lawyers to doctors to engineers to teachers to massage therapists to hair stylists to .... Nearly an endless list. And then I know a few folks who LOVE their jobs - from lawyers to doctors to engineers to teachers to massage therapists to hair stylists. We've been working with an estate lawyer for several months now. She's a hoot. I don't think she loves nor hates her job, but most days it beats many alternatives. My tax attorney is a really nice and smart guy who has been really helpful in recent years. Maybe he hates his job, but you don't get that feeling when you are working with him. Well, my doctor-sister is abit tired of medicine. She has been practicing for over last 25 yrs. One has to stay constantly alert..even what one says to patients. Also one doesn't see people at their best. Though I must admit it is very helpful to have a physician in the family. My hospital pharmacist sister (practicing 30+ yrs.) says again, one has stay sharp and alert. A pharmacist has to memorize alot of different drug therapies and know certain stuff. Working on clinical trial studies and mentoring university students probably forces her to remain brain sharp. In CAnada to be a pharmacist now....is a Master's degree. Sure there are online reference texts...but there are classes of drugs you must know, maintain current knowledge, know key dosages, etc. She's working partially because 2 of 3 children are still in university. I like my own career...I feel incredibly blessed to have learned so much from a wide variety of clients. I did choose right --though alot of people don't quite appreciate the level of content exposure working in different industry areas for libraries and electronic corporate information management systems, actually requires understanding something about the client groups' industry areas, different thinking styles how people seek information and reasons for people wanting certain information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyr Posted May 30, 2021 Share #28 Posted May 30, 2021 It is simply a matter of perspective and often the grass DOES look greener from the other side of the fence. When my mech eng son was working in California on Catalina Islands for an extended time with NASA, working side by side with up to 20 astronauts putting 2 person subs and 1 atm dive suits in the water, he chuckled when one guy over supper said to Jared, "You are so lucky, you have such a cool job." Jared asked him "You spent six months on the ISS, and you think I have a cool job?" He shrugged and said "Yes, I did, but now mostly all I do is school talks" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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