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Any Unvaccinated Cafe Folks Left?


Razors Edge

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2 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

It seems the CAnadians may be slow to be fully vaccinated, but how about the rest of us?

I'm fully vaxxed despite the goofiness we originally encountered being out-of-staters.

How about you?

Canada does not manufacture any of the listed vaccines...which hobbles us abit.  I just got doubly vaccinated.

But not everyone in our province yet.

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I was Pfizered on Feb. 24th and Mar. 24th.

According to the Pfizer CEO, I may have to be re-Pfizered after Nov. 24th (8 months).

I think we're headed for annual flu and COVID shots.

 

Also, if you look on CDC website, almost half of COVID deaths were COVID + pneumonia: 586,976 from COVID of which 287,424 were COVID + pneumonia.  In normal years most flu deaths were flu + pneumonia.

I've gotten my two pneumonia shots: one is good for 5 years, 2 for life, though I think they're claiming a new one is once for life.  It may give me the edge I need if either illness hits me hard.

I got hit with the flu the first two years I was a teacher, which started me getting the flu shot every year since with excellent results. If you work in close proximity to a lot of people, especially ones who stick their nose in your face and say, "I feel sick," the flu and COVID and pneumonia shots are no-brainers to me.

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2 minutes ago, Road Runner said:

OTOH, the cases in VA continue to drop.  Only 90 yesterday in the entire state.

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How tragic those deaths after easy vaccination availability are. :(  You make it a year during the height of COVID, then, for whatever reason, don't get vaccinated and then get COVID and perhaps even die from it :( Awful to imagine.

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6 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

  Anyway, I am covered for now.

Good on you!

10 minutes ago, Zealot said:

And that, my friend, tastes of veracity.  😊 

Was a simple "no" too hard to write?  :(

12 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Refuseniks must be outed, labeled and shamed!  :) 

Because there can be no good that comes from a population vaccinated against something like COVID, eh?

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3 minutes ago, Road Runner said:

I'm not surprised that a lot of people are hesitant.  But I am surprised that it is as high as 50%.  :o

Why are you surprised it is as high as 50%?  I am surprised it isn't a bit higher.  I do understand the initial hesitancy when it first came out, but there seem to be vanishingly small number of serious complications (other than temporary inconvenience for a day or so after the second shot), and it protects well against a worst-case scenario.  

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1 hour ago, MickinMD said:

I was Pfizered on Feb. 24th and Mar. 24th.

According to the Pfizer CEO, I may have to be re-Pfizered after Nov. 24th (8 months).

I think we're headed for annual flu and COVID shots.

 

Also, if you look on CDC website, almost half of COVID deaths were COVID + pneumonia: 586,976 from COVID of which 287,424 were COVID + pneumonia.  In normal years most flu deaths were flu + pneumonia.

I've gotten my two pneumonia shots: one is good for 5 years, 2 for life, though I think they're claiming a new one is once for life.  It may give me the edge I need if either illness hits me hard.

I got hit with the flu the first two years I was a teacher, which started me getting the flu shot every year since with excellent results. If you work in close proximity to a lot of people, especially ones who stick their nose in your face and say, "I feel sick," the flu and COVID and pneumonia shots are no-brainers to me.

Covid is a virus.  One doesn't really die from covid.  One dies from pneumonia or lung failure or heart failure brought on by the covid virus.

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1 minute ago, Razors Edge said:

Good on you!

Was a simple "no" too hard to write?  :(

Because there can be no good that comes from a population vaccinated against something like COVID, eh?

I think Wilbur has been vaccinated, and also caught it, too.  He wasn't here much for quite a while, though, so I don't know that we ever had a write up of how that went..

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3 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

Why are you surprised it is as high as 50%?

Because I usually assume that idiots and nearly insane procrastinators make up only about 20-30% of the population.  

I wonder if many aren't just saying, "Screw it.  Let everybody else get vaccinated and herd immunity will take over, saving me from the disastrous long term effects of the vaccines."

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3 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

You're welcome to expound on your like/dislike of the vaccine.  We don't hold you back. 

Actually you (collectively) do. The last time I engaged in a vaccine thread here, it got ‘locked’ because it was deemed ‘political’.  Which was really enlightening.

 

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9 minutes ago, Zealot said:

The last time I engaged in a vaccine thread here, it got ‘locked’ because it was deemed ‘political’.  Which was really enlightening.

Vaccine threads are not political and don't get locked because they are vaccine threads.  There are forumites that see a thread such as a vaccine thread and apparently can't help but to turn it political.  Then it gets locked by one of the mods.  I'm surprised this one hasn't already turned...

And no one has to agree with that.  SW has always been open to explain the specific circumstance. 

  

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6 minutes ago, Zealot said:

Actually you (collectively) do. The last time I engaged in a vaccine thread here, it got ‘locked’ because it was deemed ‘political’.  Which was really enlightening.

That seems very wrong, unless someone transformed a non-political vaccine discussion into a political one.  If so, I think the proper solution would have been to delete the offending political post(s) and allowed the general vaccine discussion to continue.  But being a mod isn't as easy as it looks sometimes.  I'm sure they did what seemed right at the time.

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3 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

One doesn't really die from covid.  One dies from pneumonia or lung failure or heart failure.

There really has been a lot of semantics regarding covid and cause of death. All of the deaths were from other things, literally everything but covid, according to some.  Shirley ALL those people weren't dying immediately until covid hit.  Lots of folks weren't going to admit that covid had anything to do with an alarming death count, and compared it to pure silliness like traffic accidents and the like. 

 

3 minutes ago, Road Runner said:

Because I usually assume that idiots and nearly insane procrastinators make up only about 20-30% of the population.  

I wonder if many aren't just saying, "Screw it.  Let everybody else get vaccinated and herd immunity will take over, saving me from the disastrous long term effects of the vaccines."

There are far more who, in that absence of politics, would have gotten the vaccine.  Just a lot of doubling down by people who want "their side" to be right without any compulsion to actually gather thoughts and facts to learn what the preponderance of the evidence says.

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31 minutes ago, Zealot said:

Actually you (collectively) do. The last time I engaged in a vaccine thread here, it got ‘locked’ because it was deemed ‘political’.  Which was really enlightening.

 

I saw that the OP was unanswered for a while and wondered if people would be reluctant to post.

More bothersome to me was the labeling and name calling of earlier posts on the matter.  Maybe not overt but the “if the shoe fits” type.  I know Covid is a touchy subject but we don’t need to go there with each other.

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17 minutes ago, Zealot said:

There were strong differences of opinions expressed. But not political.

Sadly, there is often a pretty strong tie between "opinion" and the dreaded politics & religion.  It's actually fairly hard to discern why else folks have "turned" against vaccines, as we all remember when, just a short decade ago, Hollywood folks like Alicia Silverstone or Jim Carrey were anti-vaxx ("normal" vaccines), and they were considered fringe or weird etc..  Then, coincidental to other events in the world, folks all of a sudden adopted the same attitude. 

We'll see.  I'm gonna guess more, not less, vaccines will see the light of day.  Maybe we'll even get better at turning them around fast enough to stay ahead of emerging dangers.

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6 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

just a short decade ago, Hollywood folks like Alicia Silverstone or Jim Carrey were anti-vaxx ("normal" vaccines), and they were considered fringe or weird etc..  Then, coincidental to other events in the world, folks all of a sudden adopted the same attitude. 

Jim Carrey and Alicia Silverstone really turned nutcase on that, didn't they?  It really was the common perception, too, the vast majority of folks thought they were loonies.  The coincidental part is a little too coincidental in this case, but it shows what can easily happen when some voices are overamplified.

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32 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

There really has been a lot of semantics regarding covid and cause of death. All of the deaths were from other things, literally everything but covid, according to some.  Shirley ALL those people weren't dying immediately until covid hit.  Lots of folks weren't going to admit that covid had anything to do with an alarming death count, and compared it to pure silliness like traffic accidents and the like.

It's semantics of a sort but the deaths were largely because of covid but not from covid.  The same is true for flu.  It's another virus that is the cause of death by pneumonia or heart failure or even kidney failure if one dehydrates to a dangerous level.

Which words are used on the death certificate is however political and I won't expound on the why of that.

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7 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

Jim Carrey and Alicia Silverstone really turned nutcase on that, didn't they?  It really was the common perception, too, the vast majority of folks thought they were loonies.  The coincidental part is a little too coincidental in this case, but it shows what can easily happen when some voices are overamplified.

Jim Carrey with David Letterman is a fun interview.  Dude is still funny, and like Dave, has eff you money, so just does whatever floats his boat these days.

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Although the deaths in many cases were listed as pneumonia etc, what was important and ignored by many was a statistic called "excess deaths"  We had several hundred thousand more deaths last year than normal.  Even though those deaths appeared to be caused by things that happen in a normal year the excess death number indicates that the covid virus was the contributing factor.  We also had far fewer deaths that were ultimately the result of flu (flu was almost non existent last year)  That makes the excess death number even larger.

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3 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

We had several hundred thousand more deaths last year than normal. 

I think the actual number of excess deaths in the US and A was around 800,000 (maybe 700,000? I don't have a photographic memory, you see).  I think we can conclude that Covid deaths were vastly underreported.  

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28 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

It's semantics of a sort but the deaths were largely because of covid but not from covid.  The same is true for flu.  It's another virus that is the cause of death by pneumonia or heart failure or even kidney failure if one dehydrates to a dangerous level.

Which words are used on the death certificate is however political and I won't expound on the why of that.

So, covid was just an accelerant?  :) 

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3 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Everyone dies due to lack of oxygen, maxx.   Everything else is just a contributing factor. 

Contributing factor is not exactly the same as accelerant.  Your quote is like saying everyone dies of low blood pressure.

 

One has to look at the last year plus and ask would those people have died had they not contracted covid 19

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1 hour ago, maddmaxx said:

Covid is a virus.  One doesn't really die from covid.  One dies from pneumonia or lung failure or heart failure brought on by the covid virus.

Sorry I wasn't specific enough for you.  When I said they died from Covid I should have said from Covid or Covid non-pneumonia causes.  I'd argue about viruses actually killing but don't want to distract from my main point.

Obviously, my main point was almost half are dying from pneumonia - that's why I mentioned I made sure I have my 2 pneumonia shots.  I'm absolutely amazed that the pneumonia shot isn't considered almost as important as a Covid or flu shot.

 

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4 minutes ago, MickinMD said:

Sorry I wasn't specific enough for you.  When I said they died from Covid I should have said from Covid or Covid non-pneumonia causes.  I'd argue about viruses actually killing but don't want to distract from my main point.

Obviously, my main point was almost half are dying from pneumonia - that's why I mentioned I made sure I have my 2 pneumonia shots.  I'm absolutely amazed that the pneumonia shot isn't considered almost as important as a Covid or flu shot.

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-does-the-flu-actually-kill-people/

But what exactly is a “flu-related death”? How does the flu kill? The short and morbid answer is that in most cases the body kills itself by trying to heal itself. “Dying from the flu is not like dying from a bullet or a black widow spider bite,” says Amesh Adalja, an infectious disease physician at the Johns Hopkins University Center for Health Security. “The presence of the virus itself isn't going to be what kills you. An infectious disease always has a complex interaction with its host.”

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17 hours ago, Road Runner said:

Because I usually assume that idiots and nearly insane procrastinators make up only about 20-30% of the population.  

I missed this response yesterday.

So then Roadrunner, straight up, if I have not received the vaccine, under which lens will you view me - that of idiocy or insanity? I’m asking you because it’s one thing to make general commentary about a subject or a ‘segment of a population’. But its often more problematic to apply to those we may know on a more personal level. 

If you answer, do so honestly. I won’t be offended. But I am curious.

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