My co-workers are quitting

[dinneR ★]

We are losing five people this month. I love the people I work with. Some of my best friends are leaving. I think we lost ten during the pandemic. 

[2Far ★]

There's an old adage, "people quit their managers".

 

Got management issues?

[Razors Edge ★]

9 minutes ago, denniS said:

We are losing five people this month. I love the people I work with. Some of my best friends are leaving. I think we lost ten during the pandemic. 

At what point is work down to zero?  If my team of a dozen folks dropped a couple people, we'd survive.  A couple more, and it gets tougher, and any more would be insanity.

[dinneR ★]

2 minutes ago, 2Far said:

There's an old adage, "people quit their managers".

 

Got management issues?

Nail>head. We are boss #4 in the last 18 months. #5 starts in July.

[dinneR ★]

2 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

At what point is work down to zero?  If my team of a dozen folks dropped a couple people, we'd survive.  A couple more, and it gets tougher, and any more would be insanity.

We are approaching insanity. My team of six is down to two. Or three. 

[Further]

They fired several management people before the COVID lockdown started. Fifty more have quit since. They have started calling back layed off union people, about one in three aren’t coming back, its ok though, only the ambitious ones left, the lazy ones are all showing up.    

[Razors Edge ★]

6 minutes ago, Further said:

They fired several management people before the COVID lockdown started. Fifty more have quit since. They have started calling back layed off union people, about one in three aren’t coming back, its ok though, only the ambitious ones left, the lazy ones are all showing up.    

The good news is there's a bazillion service industry jobs for folks to take.  They can't seem to find folks to do those jobs anymore.

[Airehead]

There are so many jobs available in our area that we having folks leaving all the time.  I worry

[dinneR ★]

19 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

The good news is there's a bazillion service industry jobs for folks to take.  They can't seem to find folks to do those jobs anymore.

 

3 minutes ago, Airehead said:

There are so many jobs available in our area that we having folks leaving all the time.  I worry

We have 3000 job openings in the county of 25k residents. Many restaurants are going to 5 days/week instead of 7. You can make $70k/year making pizza. We have completely run out of housing unless you are wealthy.

I entered a lottery to buy a house, but lost. 

[Razors Edge ★]

2 minutes ago, denniS said:

 

We have 3000 job openings in the county of 25k residents. Many restaurants are going to 5 days/week instead of 7. You can make $70k/year making pizza. We have completely run out of housing unless you are wealthy.

I entered a lottery to buy a house, but lost. 

Why settle for $70k?  Why not what the market will bear?  Seems like a pizza maker in JH is a good thing to have, so why isn't the market adjusting to pay them enough to work and fill the jobs?  Offer $170k/yr and maybe folks will do a longer commute or be able to afford a studio apartment?  Or pool resources and buy a home with three other properly paid workers?

[JerrySTL ★]

8 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Why settle for $70k?  Why not what the market will bear?  Seems like a pizza maker in JH is a good thing to have, so why isn't the market adjusting to pay them enough to work and fill the jobs?  Offer $170k/yr and maybe folks will do a longer commute or be able to afford a studio apartment?  Or pool resources and buy a home with three other properly paid workers?

But who could afford the 🍕 then?

[Razors Edge ★]

1 minute ago, JerrySTL said:

But who could afford the 🍕 then?

The billionaires ordering it!  Literally.

[dinneR ★]

33 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Why settle for $70k?  Why not what the market will bear?  Seems like a pizza maker in JH is a good thing to have, so why isn't the market adjusting to pay them enough to work and fill the jobs?  Offer $170k/yr and maybe folks will do a longer commute or be able to afford a studio apartment?  Or pool resources and buy a home with three other properly paid workers?

It was probably $15/hour and just kept getting bumped. $35/hour might do the trick.

[dinneR ★]

1 hour ago, Razors Edge said:

Why settle for $70k?  Why not what the market will bear?  Seems like a pizza maker in JH is a good thing to have, so why isn't the market adjusting to pay them enough to work and fill the jobs?  Offer $170k/yr and maybe folks will do a longer commute or be able to afford a studio apartment?  Or pool resources and buy a home with three other properly paid workers?

From Buckrail:

The Jackson/Teton County Housing Department found that between quarter four of 2019 and quarter four of 2020, rental rates in Star Valley for a two-bedroom apartment increased 19%. The estimated commuting cost from Star Valley is about $600 per month. Teton Valley, Idaho saw the largest rental rate increase of 60% overall, with an estimated monthly commuting cost of $500.

According to a recent survey conducted by the Jackson Hole Chamber of Commerce, 80% of businesses in Teton County rely on employees who commute from Star Valley or Teton Valley. 55% of businesses have had between one and five employees lose housing in the last six months.

[Scrapr ★]

Does it make sense for the business' to run a shuttle bus from affordable housing area? Or private jet?

[dinneR ★]

3 minutes ago, Scrapr said:

Does it make sense for the business' to run a shuttle bus from affordable housing area? Or private jet?

There is a public transit to two neighboring communities, but the housing prices and availability are challenging as well. The millionaires and billionaires have discovered these places and are buying up the real estate.

 

[maddmaxx ★]

CT is offering a $1000 check to anyone who obtains a full time job and keeps it for at least 8 continuous weeks.  They are making this offer to the first 10,000 who take them up on it.  It doesn't seem to be enough as only 1,700 or so have qualified so far.  

[shootingstar]

I'm hearing about enough retirements.....  or yes, some people just left organization for another job. We are undergoing massive restructuring in at least 40% of the organization. Meanwhile in the press, there have been some announcements of some firms relocating to our city within next 5 years....probably because commercial office space is so cheap since we have over 30% unleased space...but it was growing 3 years before covid.  And our housing prices aren't skyhigh terrible.

[team scooter]

16 hours ago, Scrapr said:

Does it make sense for the business' to run a shuttle bus from affordable housing area? Or private jet?

The factories in our rural area all compete for a limited number of local applicants. People constantly move from company to company depending who is paying the most at that time. Some are even paying more than you'd think. Some companies started busing people in from the city to fill positions. 

[shootingstar]

55 minutes ago, team scooter said:

The factories in our rural area all compete for a limited number of local applicants. People constantly move from company to company depending who is paying the most at that time. Some are even paying more than you'd think. Some companies started busing people in from the city to fill positions. 

Busing is a good, practical benefit for workers especially those who earn lower wages. That's the very least a desperate employer can give where the employees would be grateful immediately.

[Wilbur ★]

17 hours ago, Scrapr said:

Does it make sense for the business' to run a shuttle bus from affordable housing area? Or private jet?

That is pretty common.  We have a couple of corporate shuttle aircraft out of Toronto and the US has hundreds.  Even in Oregon, Jeld-Wen operated a fleet of aircraft so people could get to work sites and their spouses to better shopping.  It is a good retention tool for isolated locations.  K-Falls was considered isolated back then. 

[Wilbur ★]

Good money almost never compensates for bad management. 

[Longjohn ★]

9 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Good money almost never compensates for bad management. 

Inspiration bot should write that down instead of all the lame quotes he posts.

[Inspiration Bot]

59 minutes ago, Longjohn said:

Inspiration bot should write that down instead of all the lame quotes he posts.

I know you are, but what am I?

[Ralphie ★]

21 hours ago, Inspiration Bot said:

I know you are, but what am I?

Uh-oh?  Is everyone's robiot insurance paid up?

[Kzoo]

3 minutes ago, Philander Seabury said:

Uh-oh?  Is everyone's robiot insurance paid up?

Pfffft. I’m not scared.  I’m spoofing your IP address.

[Ralphie ★]

10 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

Pfffft. I’m not scared.  I’m spoofing your IP address.

You bastard!  Who told you it was 1.2.3.4? 

 

[Razors Edge ★]

On 6/11/2021 at 1:37 PM, denniS said:

It was probably $15/hour and just kept getting bumped. $35/hour might do the trick.

It will be obvious soon enough, I guess?  Not enough staff - compensation too low.  Ample staff with limited turnover - compensation is okay.  Folks beating down the door for a job - compensation is very good.  Anytime I hear folks complain about staff shortages, it generally boils down to a few things - compensation, short term/long term planning & training, and management.  Why would anyone work in JH if they are losing money doing so?

On 6/12/2021 at 7:30 AM, shootingstar said:

Busing is a good, practical benefit for workers especially those who earn lower wages. That's the very least a desperate employer can give where the employees would be grateful immediately.

But if there are local job options, busing, rail, commuting by car really stinks if there are no big differences in compensation. JH or San Fran or other places can "chase away" low wage folks, so wherever they land to live, if it has job openings, they'd be likely to stay local. If they have much wiggle room with where they could live, then they may even move far enough away that busing wouldn't be realistic.  For JH, maybe folks pack up and move to Utah or CO's ski areas.  Somewhere like Salt Lake City will have a bit more housing and still be near ski areas.  I'd think many folks in the service industry in resort towns are fairly flexible in why and where they live - ie want to be in a ski town or at a beach town, so when jobs dry up or wages don't keep up, as renters, they pack the car and head to the similar places where jobs are available and compensation is competitive.

[Razors Edge ★]

On 6/11/2021 at 12:54 PM, denniS said:

Many restaurants are going to 5 days/week instead of 7.

Last night, we thought we would hit up the local brewery-creperie.  Crepes are always fun.  Anyway, we walk in and talk to the hostess.  Apparently, they're on a "kitchen open only for lunch" right now as they scale back up to summer service levels.  Seemingly, crepes are more difficult to make than we originally believed. 

Might have to try them at lunch.

[dinneR ★]

29 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

It will be obvious soon enough, I guess?  Not enough staff - compensation too low.  Ample staff with limited turnover - compensation is okay.  Folks beating down the door for a job - compensation is very good.  Anytime I hear folks complain about staff shortages, it generally boils down to a few things - compensation, short term/long term planning & training, and management.  Why would anyone work in JH if they are losing money doing so?

But if there are local job options, busing, rail, commuting by car really stinks if there are no big differences in compensation. JH or San Fran or other places can "chase away" low wage folks, so wherever they land to live, if it has job openings, they'd be likely to stay local. If they have much wiggle room with where they could live, then they may even move far enough away that busing wouldn't be realistic.  For JH, maybe folks pack up and move to Utah or CO's ski areas.  Somewhere like Salt Lake City will have a bit more housing and still be near ski areas.  I'd think many folks in the service industry in resort towns are fairly flexible in why and where they live - ie want to be in a ski town or at a beach town, so when jobs dry up or wages don't keep up, as renters, they pack the car and head to the similar places where jobs are available and compensation is competitive.

This issue is not just wages, training etc. It is housing. If you make an offer to anyone from outside the area, they cannot find a place to live. Essentially, higher wages are just stealing employees from their competitors. 

[Longjohn ★]

16 minutes ago, denniS said:

This issue is not just wages, training etc. It is housing. If you make an offer to anyone from outside the area, they cannot find a place to live. Essentially, higher wages are just stealing employees from their competitors. 

They need to set up some trailer parks. 

[jsharr ★]

47 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Last night, we thought we would hit up the local brewery-creperie.  Crepes are always fun.  Anyway, we walk in and talk to the hostess.  Apparently, they're on a "kitchen open only for lunch" right now as they scale back up to summer service levels.  Seemingly, crepes are more difficult to make than we originally believed. 

Might have to try them at lunch.

tell them that instead of crepes you just want some pancakes.  Anyone can make pancakes.

[dinneR ★]

4 minutes ago, Longjohn said:

They need to set up some trailer parks. 

Their are some. A-rod just bought one and kicked out all of the tenants. Another one was listed for millions. It's not on the market any longer so it must have sold. Those tenants will be looking for new homes now.

[Razors Edge ★]

29 minutes ago, denniS said:

This issue is not just wages, training etc. It is housing. If you make an offer to anyone from outside the area, they cannot find a place to live. Essentially, higher wages are just stealing employees from their competitors. 

Again, it is an economics problem.  Keep increasing compensation until it attracts folks to do the work.  Keep increasing food service & other prices or taxes until it reduces demand (need fewer workers) or increases supply.  Either worker bees will then be able to compete for housing locally OR they make enough that the several hour commute from home is "worthwhile".  A resort economy is pretty fluid - especially during the shoulder times - so folks who wait tables or clean rooms often leave the area anyway for breaks, and if they happen to see a better resort - better pay, better housing options, and/or better quality of life, they're likely to stay away and relocate there.

It seems like the "we need more housing" is a crutch used to ignore "we need to pay more ... a LOT more" answer.

[Thaddeus Kosciuszko]

On 6/11/2021 at 1:08 PM, denniS said:

We are approaching insanity. My team of six is down to two. Or three. 

 

My unfortunate experience in this regard is that 'unenlightened' bosses still expect the same amount of work to get done.  Of course, when that doesn't happen the boss lashes out at the struggling employees by giving them poor performance reviews because they 'aren't meeting productivity expectations'.  Never mind the expectations aren't the least realistic.

The were two ways I found to have a prayer of defending oneself in this situation:

-Ask the boss to provide a prioritized list of what he wants done first.

-And if he doesn't or won't, then give him a list for his review/approval of how the work will be prioritized with the proviso that if he doesn't provide any feedback you will proceed according to the list anyway.

The hardest part of this putting the list together the first time.  After that it's just editing as projects come and go or as priorities change.  And, of course, it's all done through email for documentation.

Doing this will sometimes get direct feedback from the boss as to what he wants, which is great because the employee works to the boss' expectations.  It also helps defeat the 'every job is priority one' mentality.  It's also useful for deflecting 'flavor of day' management where the boss changes priorities based on who's screaming: Employee - "I'll be happy to move Project G ahead of Projects A-F, but in order for me to get right on that I'll need your help.  I'll need you to call all the customers for Projects A-F and tell them their projects will now be delayed while we work on Project G."  Faced with new screaming from Customers A-F instead of just Customer G, the boss will often take the path of least resistance and leave the priorities alone.

Making the priority list is good for the employee because it documents the unrealistic workload.  It allows the employee to document work that does get completed as projects get 'crossed off' the list.  If the boss refuses to comment the priorities, then the employee has the freedom to work to a list of his own creation.  Those benefits may be slight, but in such an environment I've learned to take what good I can squeeze of a poor situation.

These techniques don't always work, but they do give an employee a little leverage to make a poor situation work to the employee's advantage, and perhaps even a small measure of sanity.

[Thaddeus Kosciuszko]

1 hour ago, Razors Edge said:

Might have to try them at lunch.

Hmm...  I hadn't figured you as one of those crepe-y guys...

 

 

[dinneR ★]

14 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Again, it is an economics problem.  Keep increasing compensation until it attracts folks to do the work.  Keep increasing food service & other prices or taxes until it reduces demand (need fewer workers) or increases supply.  Either worker bees will then be able to compete for housing locally OR they make enough that the several hour commute from home is "worthwhile".  A resort economy is pretty fluid - especially during the shoulder times - so folks who wait tables or clean rooms often leave the area anyway for breaks, and if they happen to see a better resort - better pay, better housing options, and/or better quality of life, they're likely to stay away and relocate there.

It seems like the "we need more housing" is a crutch used to ignore "we need to pay more ... a LOT more" answer.

You really don't get it. 

[Razors Edge ★]

4 minutes ago, denniS said:

You really don't get it. 

People work in the Arctic and Antarctic.  Think about it.  Folks go to sea for crabs for a month or more at a time.  Think about it. 

Just because the owner of a restaurant either doesn't want to charge $50 for a basic hamburger OR wants to charge $50 & keep the mark-up, it is not a HOUSING problem.  The housing problem is because folks who work can't afford to live in JH or Jackson in general, and it is not worth their time - at current pay - to commute 100 miles to earn $35 an hour.  Maybe $75/hr would be enough. Or $100/hr?  But SOME number is enough.  Your peeps just haven't embraced that yet.

[shootingstar]

2 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

People work in the Arctic and Antarctic.  Think about it.  Folks go to sea for crabs for a month or more at a time.  Think about it. 

Just because the owner of a restaurant either doesn't want to charge $50 for a basic hamburger OR wants to charge $50 & keep the mark-up, it is not a HOUSING problem.  The housing problem is because folks who work can't afford to live in JH or Jackson in general, and it is not worth their time - at current pay - to commute 100 miles to earn $35 an hour.  Maybe $75/hr would be enough. Or $100/hr?  But SOME number is enough.  Your peeps just haven't embraced that yet.

I think it's important to understand there's enough people living in the Arctic at poverty line.  The service industry there wouldn't pay much to compensate for very high cost of food...and housing.

**Customers will not pay for expensive meals all the time for server's wages.  I'm speaking as someone whose father was a cook his whole life with several children and wife.

[Razors Edge ★]

1 minute ago, shootingstar said:

food...and housing.

So, folks in the Arctic of CAnada are both starving and homeless?  Something doesn't add up.

[JerrySTL ★]

3 hours ago, denniS said:

This issue is not just wages, training etc. It is housing. If you make an offer to anyone from outside the area, they cannot find a place to live. Essentially, higher wages are just stealing employees from their competitors. 

In many places, such as LA and San Francisco, it's about impossible to build affordable housing due to zoning laws. Lots of NIMBY going on. Then there's things like rent control which makes it uneconomical to even try.

[dinneR ★]

1 hour ago, JerrySTL said:

In many places, such as LA and San Francisco, it's about impossible to build affordable housing due to zoning laws. Lots of NIMBY going on. Then there's things like rent control which makes it uneconomical to even try.

We do have rent control. They are called affordables. It works, but there are not enough for the current situation. 

What is happening is this becoming a playground for the wealthy at faster rate than in the past. Rich people buy up the real estate and it sits empty. People are being moved out of their rental so the landlord can sell it. 

Because 97% of the land in the county is held by the federal gov't, it is not a situation that they build their way out of.

[Dottleshead ★]

13 minutes ago, denniS said:

We do have rent control. They are called affordables. It works, but there are not enough for the current situation. 

What is happening is this becoming a playground for the wealthy at faster rate than in the past. Rich people buy up the real estate and it sits empty. People are being moved out of their rental so the landlord can sell it. 

Because 97% of the land in the county is held by the federal gov't, it is not a situation that they build their way out of.

You guys are in a tough spot and I don't envy you. Well I'm assuming you aren't rich.

[Dottleshead ★]

6 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

It seems like the "we need more housing" is a crutch used to ignore "we need to pay more ... a LOT more" answer.

It's one or the other. More supply or more money. Or just let the billionaires hire there own help at their own rates and let them figure it out.

[maddmaxx ★]

5 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

People work in the Arctic and Antarctic.  Think about it.  Folks go to sea for crabs for a month or more at a time.  Think about it. 

Just because the owner of a restaurant either doesn't want to charge $50 for a basic hamburger OR wants to charge $50 & keep the mark-up, it is not a HOUSING problem.  The housing problem is because folks who work can't afford to live in JH or Jackson in general, and it is not worth their time - at current pay - to commute 100 miles to earn $35 an hour.  Maybe $75/hr would be enough. Or $100/hr?  But SOME number is enough.  Your peeps just haven't embraced that yet.

Would you eat regularly at a burger joint that was selling burgers for $125 a pop so that they could afford to pay their workers to live in the area with a median home price of $2 million.  I'm betting that those living in those homes won't either.

[shootingstar]

4 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

So, folks in the Arctic of CAnada are both starving and homeless?  Something doesn't add up.

Folks are poor..and their diet isn't the best because food choices are limited and expensive. I'm not sure you're understanding it.  I was there...and all I could think of ..people on low income are forced to take taxi when the weather is shitty /dangerous..because there was NO transit. I was thinking to myself..ok I don't drive and this will cost me alot.

Anyway, there's hardly any roads up there....it's pretty isolating and scary when you're there in the winter and it's dark.

I'm not referring to the non-Inuit who end working there from southern CAnada.

I am referring to the Inuit local population. Only a few have good salary jobs.

Anyway, in Banff another higher priced place to live, you meet Filipinos working in some places...they aren't there to ski, hike /snowboard...they are earning money to survive.  Not all the workers are out for ski/snowboard/hike post-work fun times for the summer or winter.

 

[LoneWolf]

On 6/12/2021 at 10:50 AM, Wilbur said:

Good money almost never compensates for bad management. 

Quote of the day, week, month, year.

I am where I am, and I'm loyal, because in the year and a half I've been there, they've had my back. They pay well, they appreciate both with praise and with benefits, and they were there for me throughout my time with WoLW, going above and beyond, and saying "Family comes first; you go be with your family". Even helping me find a notary at an eleventh hour when it was desperately needed -and then, unexpectedly, covering the cost and saying "It's the least we could do".

Pay does indicate a level of respect. But once that is reached, culture and management quality are what makes someone stay at a job, even if someone else might pay you more.

[Razors Edge ★]

15 hours ago, Dottles said:

It's one or the other. More supply or more money. Or just let the billionaires hire there own help at their own rates and let them figure it out.

This seems to be what folks are missing.  There is a place - JH - which has a severe shortage of labor, a severe shortage of housing, and an abundance of money.  If you want more labor, increase either housing and/or compensation.  Since, apparently, you can't increase housing, then that leaves compensation.  Make it WORTH the time and effort for all those folks who left Dennis' company and the local businesses. 

I don't get why simple balancing of supply and demand isn't the answer here.   Money talks.  Or cheap cost-of-living. 

 

[maddmaxx ★]

40 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

This seems to be what folks are missing.  There is a place - JH - which has a severe shortage of labor, a severe shortage of housing, and an abundance of money.  If you want more labor, increase either housing and/or compensation.  Since, apparently, you can't increase housing, then that leaves compensation.  Make it WORTH the time and effort for all those folks who left Dennis' company and the local businesses. 

I don't get why simple balancing of supply and demand isn't the answer here.   Money talks.  Or cheap cost-of-living. 

 

I asked before if you were ready to buy $125 hamburgers?  In a different way of looking at the problem do you think you could convince the rich to hire $75 dollar an hour maids?

[dinneR ★]

17 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

This seems to be what folks are missing.  There is a place - JH - which has a severe shortage of labor, a severe shortage of housing, and an abundance of money.  If you want more labor, increase either housing and/or compensation.  Since, apparently, you can't increase housing, then that leaves compensation.  Make it WORTH the time and effort for all those folks who left Dennis' company and the local businesses. 

I don't get why simple balancing of supply and demand isn't the answer here.   Money talks.  Or cheap cost-of-living. 

 

It feels like you took econ 101 20 years ago and now you think you are econ expert. Maybe you Milton Friedman back in the day. 

We make job offers. People accept the offer. Then they can't find a place to live. None, zero. They turn down the job offer. We can only hire locals who already have housing. So people just move from job to job. The wealthy are buying up the real estate and leave it vacant.

There will be some relief in the future, but it will take years. The county blew one development offer. A ranch family offered up 30-40 lots for Habitat. The deal fell apart, now those will all be larger lots sold to the wealthy.