highrise collapse in Miami

[maddmaxx ★]

The numbers of missing unaccounted for are now 159.

[jsharr ★]

2 hours ago, maddmaxx said:

The numbers of missing unaccounted for are now 159.

That is a horrifying number.  Most of those people went to bed not knowing it was the last night of their lives.   Nothing is promised to you in this world.  

[Prophet Zacharia]

27 minutes ago, jsharr said:

That is a horrifying number.  Most of those people went to bed not know it was the last night of their lives.   Nothing is promised to you in this world.  

Any possibility that a group of oscillating otters created an unsafe frequency that brought the structure down?

 

 

[Prophet Zacharia]

From the Miami Herald. Reassuring that there were identified major issues in the construction of this building, but tragic that not enough was done to prevent the collapse and loss of life.
 

In a 2018 report about the Champlain Towers South condo in Surfside, an engineer flagged a “major error” dating back to the building’s origin where lack of proper drainage on the pool deck had caused “major structural damage,” according to records released late Friday night by town officials in the wake of the tower’s disastrous collapse on Thursday.

 

[maddmaxx ★]

14 minutes ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

From the Miami Herald. Reassuring that there were identified major issues in the construction of this building, but tragic that not enough was done to prevent the collapse and loss of life.
 

In a 2018 report about the Champlain Towers South condo in Surfside, an engineer flagged a “major error” dating back to the building’s origin where lack of proper drainage on the pool deck had caused “major structural damage,” according to records released late Friday night by town officials in the wake of the tower’s disastrous collapse on Thursday.

 

I'm sure that all the coastal towns in Florida are looking for any possible reason that this one and only this one building was in danger.

[Bikeguy]

Now I'm thinking my suggestion may be good guess??

On 6/24/2021 at 6:14 PM, Bikeguy said:

That was my first guess..    The talking heads on TV already have explained how that was not the cause.  Not sure how they know that...  

Then I moved on to the time of the collapse, 1:30 AM.    I'm now guessing..  some drunk drove into an underground parking garage and hit a support column. 

Apparently the garage support columns were in very bad shape.  Maybe... some drunk did hit a column and it failed.  

The firm recommended replacing the damaged slabs. It also found “abundant cracking and spalling” in the concrete columns, beams and walls of the parking garage. The tower was built in 1981.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/26/engineer-found-major-structural-damage-to-florida-condo-tower-before-collapse.html

[Prophet Zacharia]

8 minutes ago, Bikeguy said:

Now I'm thinking my suggestion may be good guess??

I think the leading suspicion is that years of water damage caused the problems, and that any patch work done along the way was superficial. I guess a drunk hitting a structural support could have been the final straw?

[Bikeguy]

22 minutes ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

I think the leading suspicion is that years of water damage caused the problems, and that any patch work done along the way was superficial. I guess a drunk hitting a structural support could have been the final straw?

Yeah... it looks like this can happen.  I was searching 'concrete spalling' and found this.

https://www.engineering.com/story/deadly-collapse-of-the-algo-centre-mall-roof

 

 

 

[Bikeguy]

On 6/24/2021 at 6:48 PM, Razors Edge said:

Do they have underground parking in Miami?

Apparently they do.  

Three years before the deadly collapse of the Champlain Towers South condominium complex near Miami, a consultant found alarming evidence of “major structural damage” to the concrete slab below the pool deck and “abundant” cracking and crumbling of the columns, beams and walls of the parking garage under the 13-story building.

I'm sticking with my theory until someone proves otherwise. 

[Ralphie ★]

In hindsight a pool on a top deck is sort of taunting Mother Nature to eff with you.  But there are plenty of installations with that configuration, this one just sounded slightly negligent.

 

[Road Runner]

17 minutes ago, Philander Seabury said:

In hindsight a pool on a top deck is sort of taunting Mother Nature to eff with you.  But there are plenty of installations with that configuration, this one just sounded slightly negligent.

 

I read about the reference to the pool deck and never understood what it is referring to.  The pool is on the ground level.

[Razors Edge ★]

26 minutes ago, Bikeguy said:

Apparently they do.  

Three years before the deadly collapse of the Champlain Towers South condominium complex near Miami, a consultant found alarming evidence of “major structural damage” to the concrete slab below the pool deck and “abundant” cracking and crumbling of the columns, beams and walls of the parking garage under the 13-story building.

I'm sticking with my theory until someone proves otherwise. 

I think we'll know eventually   My guess would be that there isn't "underground" parking as much as "parking on the lower levels but above ground" sort of design?  We even do that here where you can dig down without hitting water immediately.

But in any case, definitely a possibility that has not been ruled out.  I still think it is awfully coincidental that work was being done on the building leading up to the collapse, and the stuff folks are mentioning - like known issues - is damn scary and still tragic.

[Bikeguy]

6 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

I still think it is awfully coincidental that work was being done on the building leading up to the collapse, and the stuff folks are mentioning - like known issues - is damn scary and still tragic.

Yeah... it is indeed tragic and 'known' issues, could have made this possibly even preventable.     Some of these issues appear extremely serious and yet, the building was occupied. 

[Prophet Zacharia]

7 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

My guess would be that there isn't "underground" parking as much as "parking on the lower levels but above ground" sort of design? 

They refer to it as a “basement garage” at some point.

[Further]

I worked in Florida in the mid 80's, they had the most stringent codes and most lax enforcement. 

[Bikeguy]

7 hours ago, Road Runner said:

I read about the reference to the pool deck and never understood what it is referring to.  The pool is on the ground level.

Looks like the pool is at grade level.  The pool is not in the ground, it is in the structure.  The parking garage is under the building and the bottom of the pool extends down into a corner of the garage.

https://townofsurfsidefl.gov/departments-services/town-clerk/champlain-towers-public-records-documents  <<   the documents 

8777-collins-ave-1979-plans  

Page 22 of the PDF are the plans for the parking garage.   Note the ramp to drive down into the garage.  

[Airehead]

I read where a family has received 16 calls, only static, from their missing parents/grandparents?

[Bikeguy]

12 minutes ago, Airehead said:

I read where a family has received 16 calls, only static, from their missing parents/grandparents?

I read that too.   The calls are from a landline.  Not sure how that could be possible.  And if they are calls..     Prayers for the grandparents...  

[MickinMD ★]

On 6/25/2021 at 9:41 AM, Prophet Zacharia said:

It’s (was) a fairly new building at only 40 years old. I would Imagine much of the Miami area has much older buildings of similar and taller heights.

Not many Miami high rises are very old. When I was there in 2017 the boom in tall buildings was noted by our taxi driver while taking us to our cruise ship and he noted that there's a concern there weren't enough inspections going on with some of them.

A Miami skyscraper page lists 75 and 4 were built in the 1920's and 30's but the next oldest is 1972, then one each in 1981-85.

 It notes, "The Miami Center is a skyscraper in downtown Miami, Florida. Although not even close to being one of that city's tallest buildings, it is a symbol of early downtown. Built in 1983, it is older compared with most of the taller buildings in Miami, which have been built in the last decade."

A structural engineer interviewed on CNN this morning said that buildings like that which are near salt water are usually expected to last 50 years. I don't know if that's true in general, but that's why he thinks inspections at 40 years are required by law.

[Bikeguy]

OMG there are TWO of these buildings.   

 

[maddmaxx ★]

16 minutes ago, Bikeguy said:

OMG there are TWO of these buildings.   

 

News reports today state that inspections of both buildings (including by the feds) have shown dramatic differences in upkeep and maintenance between the two.  The collapsed building was considered shoddy and poorly kept up as far back as 2018.  The northern building has been spending money to renovate.  One such renovation was to remove the tile on all the balconies because of possible water seepage.  They did not say if it was replaced or simply removed, but it cost each condo owner about $2000.  Many owners were opposed to the expense but the majority voted for it.  The northern building has a basement parking garage that is dry and the sump pump system is new and dry as well.  The roof shows all openings sealed against water intrusion.

I seems that different condo associations have different views on building maintenance.  Perhaps more attention will be paid in the future.

Wet rebar rusts

[jsharr ★]

57 minutes ago, Bikeguy said:

OMG there are TWO of these buildings.   

 

There were two…