Road Runner Posted July 16, 2021 Share #1 Posted July 16, 2021 They pointed this out on Jeopardy last night. I've heard this saying or some form of it a lot over my lifetime but I never really analyzed it. It isn't actually right. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsharr ★ Posted July 16, 2021 Share #2 Posted July 16, 2021 Don't count your chickens before they rip your lips off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddmaxx ★ Posted July 16, 2021 Share #3 Posted July 16, 2021 4 minutes ago, Road Runner said: They pointed this out on Jeopardy last night. I've heard this saying or some form of it a lot over my lifetime but I never really analyzed it. It isn't actually right. The quote has nothing to do with the reality of Dawn (sun up). Expecting that to be a correct statement shows some degree of foolishness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longjohn ★ Posted July 16, 2021 Share #4 Posted July 16, 2021 A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsharr ★ Posted July 16, 2021 Share #5 Posted July 16, 2021 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Road Runner Posted July 16, 2021 Author Share #6 Posted July 16, 2021 23 minutes ago, Longjohn said: A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. I guess it depends on the bush. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Road Runner Posted July 16, 2021 Author Share #7 Posted July 16, 2021 20 minutes ago, maddmaxx said: The quote has nothing to do with the reality of Dawn (sun up). Expecting that to be a correct statement shows some degree of foolishness. The saying is an analogy. The analogy (the darkest sky is just before dawn) is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Road Runner Posted July 16, 2021 Author Share #8 Posted July 16, 2021 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzoo Posted July 16, 2021 Share #9 Posted July 16, 2021 37 minutes ago, Road Runner said: The saying is an analogy. The analogy (the darkest sky is just before dawn) is wrong. You are assuming the saying is related to meteoritical dawn instead of situational/emotional dawn. And it doesn't have to be an analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Road Runner Posted July 16, 2021 Author Share #10 Posted July 16, 2021 Michelle was such a beautiful young woman with such a pure and angelic voice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Road Runner Posted July 16, 2021 Author Share #11 Posted July 16, 2021 5 minutes ago, Kzoo said: You are assuming the saying is related to meteoritical dawn instead of situational/emotional dawn. And it doesn't have to be an analogy. Jeopardy said it was wrong. I agree with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Posted July 16, 2021 Share #12 Posted July 16, 2021 They didn't say how long before dawn it's the darkest, just that it's before dawn. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzoo Posted July 16, 2021 Share #13 Posted July 16, 2021 4 minutes ago, Road Runner said: Jeopardy said it was wrong. I agree with them. They have been wrong before - I know.... sacrilege. But they do have to bring a contestant back from time to time because of their error. I'm thinking they are wrong this time too. I'm sure of it. Almost. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Road Runner Posted July 16, 2021 Author Share #14 Posted July 16, 2021 4 minutes ago, Kirby said: They didn't say how long before dawn it's the darkest, just that it's before dawn. Going by that logic, we could say, "it is always brightest before dawn". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Posted July 16, 2021 Share #15 Posted July 16, 2021 1 minute ago, Road Runner said: Going by that logic, we could say, "it is always brightest before dawn". Also true. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Road Runner Posted July 16, 2021 Author Share #16 Posted July 16, 2021 5 minutes ago, Kzoo said: I'm thinking they are wrong this time too. I'm sure of it. Almost. Hmm. Let's see. The greatest Game Show ever versus Kzoo's "thoughts". Decisions, decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoseySusan Posted July 16, 2021 Share #17 Posted July 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Road Runner said: It isn't actually right. Is it supposed to be actually right? It’s poetic, albeit irrational, but it carries a message of hope for enlightenment, an encouragement to persevere. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Road Runner Posted July 16, 2021 Author Share #18 Posted July 16, 2021 17 minutes ago, MoseySusan said: It’s poetic, albeit irrational, but it carries a message of hope for enlightenment, an encouragement to persevere. I agree, but it is based on a flawed analogy. I'm not denigrating the sentiment. But if you are going to relate life's events to an astronomical event, then maybe you should pick an astronomical event that truly coincides and confirms your theory of life's related events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Thaddeus Kosciuszko Posted July 16, 2021 Popular Post Share #19 Posted July 16, 2021 18 minutes ago, Road Runner said: The greatest Game Show ever versus Kzoo's "thoughts". My apologies, but I don't see what relevance The Gong Show has to any of this... 1 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoseySusan Posted July 16, 2021 Share #20 Posted July 16, 2021 3 minutes ago, Road Runner said: relate life's events to an astronomical event, then maybe you should pick an astronomical event that truly coincides and confirms your theory of life's events. I wonder, then, whether the saying refers to the specific scenario where a new moon or a waning gibbous has already set in the western sky, or isn’t visible at all after having been somewhat visible earlier. Then it truly would seem darkest before the dawn of the sun. And having this experience of the moon setting before the sun even rises, generalizing it as a proverb to remind people that there are times when familiar signposts for nighttime navigation won’t be there, but with patience the sun will make itself known. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzoo Posted July 16, 2021 Share #21 Posted July 16, 2021 16 minutes ago, MoseySusan said: I wonder, then, whether the saying refers to the specific scenario where a new moon or a waning gibbous has already set in the western sky, or isn’t visible at all after having been somewhat visible earlier. Then it truly would seem darkest before the dawn of the sun. And having this experience of the moon setting before the sun even rises, generalizing it as a proverb to remind people that there are times when familiar signposts for nighttime navigation won’t be there, but with patience the sun will make itself known. Don't attempt to use logic on RR. His mind is set and that's it. The saying is flawed. We just have to live with it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoseySusan Posted July 16, 2021 Share #22 Posted July 16, 2021 9 minutes ago, Kzoo said: His mind is set and that's it. @Road Runner, is this true? Or, can you imagine a night where the previously brightened sky has darkened because the moon has set before the sun has risen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoseySusan Posted July 16, 2021 Share #23 Posted July 16, 2021 This source suggests there are several days each month where the moon would have set before sunrise, and so a night that was previously illuminated would appear darker before dawn. https://astronomy.swin.edu.au/cosmos/p/Phases 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzoo Posted July 16, 2021 Share #24 Posted July 16, 2021 1 hour ago, MoseySusan said: This source suggests there are several days each month where the moon would have set before sunrise, and so a night that was previously illuminated would appear darker before dawn. https://astronomy.swin.edu.au/cosmos/p/Phases FAIL MossySue @MoseySusan. You are picking some days. The saying uses the adverb 'always'. Only when the moon does this or that is not always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffJim Posted July 16, 2021 Share #25 Posted July 16, 2021 3 hours ago, Road Runner said: I guess it depends on the bush. I was going to ask What is a hand in the Bush worth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddmaxx ★ Posted July 16, 2021 Share #26 Posted July 16, 2021 4 hours ago, Road Runner said: The saying is an analogy. The analogy (the darkest sky is just before dawn) is wrong. It's a metaphor about problems seeming impossible till you suddenly solve them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Road Runner Posted July 16, 2021 Author Share #27 Posted July 16, 2021 10 minutes ago, maddmaxx said: It's a metaphor about problems seeming impossible till you suddenly solve them. No matter how you interpret it, it's wrong. The sky gets gradually lighter before dawn. The darkest sky is when the sun is on the opposite side of the earth, not just before it rises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoseySusan Posted July 16, 2021 Share #28 Posted July 16, 2021 44 minutes ago, Kzoo said: Only when the moon does this or that is not always. The moon’s actions are firm, though. We can safely say, the moon always rises and sets according to its course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddmaxx ★ Posted July 16, 2021 Share #29 Posted July 16, 2021 50 minutes ago, Road Runner said: No matter how you interpret it, it's wrong. The sky gets gradually lighter before dawn. The darkest sky is when the sun is on the opposite side of the earth, not just before it rises. sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphie ★ Posted July 16, 2021 Share #30 Posted July 16, 2021 Wow, we have the exact perfect graemlin for this! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerrySTL ★ Posted July 16, 2021 Share #31 Posted July 16, 2021 1 hour ago, BuffJim said: I was going to ask What is a hand in the Bush worth? Two presidencies? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyr Posted July 16, 2021 Share #32 Posted July 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Road Runner said: The darkest sky is when the sun is on the opposite side of the earth, not just before it rises. And this happens when? Before the dawn. Readers of this are implying (inferring) a 'just' in before the word before. Technically, it IS darkest before the dawn...., albeit maybe 3 hours before the dawn. What would be incorrect is if the saying was "It is always darkest JUST before the dawn" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphie ★ Posted July 16, 2021 Share #33 Posted July 16, 2021 4 minutes ago, Zephyr said: What would be incorrect is if the saying was "It is always darkest JUST before the dawn" I always thought that was what the saying was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digital_photog ★ Posted July 16, 2021 Share #34 Posted July 16, 2021 5 hours ago, Road Runner said: Why do you post music that is before your time, young man? That song is from my senior year in high school. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoseySusan Posted July 16, 2021 Share #35 Posted July 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Road Runner said: The darkest sky is when the sun is on the opposite side of the earth, not just before it rises. Unless the moon is up while the sun is on the opposite side, but sets before the sun rises. Then it’s darkest before the dawn. In which case, the saying it true and correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Kosciuszko Posted July 16, 2021 Share #36 Posted July 16, 2021 26 minutes ago, Philander Seabury said: Wow, we have the exact perfect graemlin for this! Perfect. As the saying goes: The thread is always darkest before the little emoji beats the dead horse. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickinMD ★ Posted July 16, 2021 Share #37 Posted July 16, 2021 5 hours ago, Kzoo said: You are assuming the saying is related to meteoritical dawn instead of situational/emotional dawn. And it doesn't have to be an analogy. I've always heard the phrase used in a situational/emotional way. I guess Jeopardy also says it's impossible to have a "gloomy" state of mind since they aren't weather related. I do know that a real scientist would not make the jokes Sheldon Cooper does on The Big Bang Theory about Uranus because a real Sheldon would correctly pronounce it Your-an-us instead of Your-anus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphie ★ Posted July 17, 2021 Share #38 Posted July 17, 2021 1 hour ago, MickinMD said: I've always heard the phrase used in a situational/emotional way. I guess Jeopardy also says it's impossible to have a "gloomy" state of mind since they aren't weather related. I do know that a real scientist would not make the jokes Sheldon Cooper does on The Big Bang Theory about Uranus because a real Sheldon would correctly pronounce it Your-an-us instead of Your-anus. I find young Sheldon to be a lot more tolerable than old Sheldon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted July 17, 2021 Share #39 Posted July 17, 2021 This is almost as inane a discussion as mine and RoadSue's pretendagender discussion! I am impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoseySusan Posted July 17, 2021 Share #40 Posted July 17, 2021 2 hours ago, Wilbur said: This is almost as inane a discussion as mine and RoadSue's pretendagender discussion! I am impressed. Today I identify as mossy Susan. So, I’m thinking you’ve probably seen some amazing sunrises from flight altitude. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddmaxx ★ Posted July 17, 2021 Share #41 Posted July 17, 2021 We do inane almost as well as we do drivel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoseySusan Posted July 17, 2021 Share #42 Posted July 17, 2021 2 hours ago, maddmaxx said: We do inane almost as well as we do drivel. We take energy from the exhaust and recycle it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted July 17, 2021 Share #43 Posted July 17, 2021 3 hours ago, maddmaxx said: We do inane almost as well as we do drivel. At least we still do drivel. Dribble is the next step. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsharr ★ Posted July 17, 2021 Share #44 Posted July 17, 2021 21 hours ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said: My apologies, but I don't see what relevance The Gong Show has to any of this... Two words Gene Gene the dancing machine 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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