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Strava One Minute Placement Difference


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So the climb rate ration thread got me thinking about other things.  I know plenty of members who talk about KOM/QOM and there is a big difference in trying to capture one of these in different areas. For instance, some people I know with KOM'QOM's only have to compete with 10,20, 30 other riders, sometimes 5. I know one guy with 15 KOM's but 10 of them are all segments that only he has ridden ha ha ha!

So I started thinking about what a difference in different areas could mean to you on Strava.

For instance, my favorite ride section, a 7.3 mile segment that comes near the end of my ride.  Mostly 45 miles so the segment ends about 4 miles before the end of my ride.  Guess I am warmed up by this time of the ride.

# of riders posted on this segment.............27,316

My placement......................................................2,601.................No freaking way I'll ever get spot #1` or even come close. But happy to be nowhere near the bottom. :default_sissy-fight-smiley:

Now for the One Minute Stats on this segment

If a rider does the ride in 17 minutes, he will place 569 positions vs that if he had completed the section in 18 minutes.

So in other words, around here, ONE MINUTE can cost you 569 places in the segment stats:o

What does ONE Minute cost you in your area?

 

 

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14 hours ago, Mr Beanz said:

What does ONE Minute cost you in your area?

Definitely depends on the climb.

My goals for KoMs are:

1) Own the KoM.  <- almost never going to happen except on a very low popularity climb (exactly as you explain)

2) Top 10 on the board.  <- very rare. Only ever get there on low competition or low popularity climbs.  If I get top 10, it is because I have failed at getting the KoM.

3) Top 1% <- that's my "realistic" top goal for a good and popular climb.  Hit or miss getting there, but with many climbs having a few thousand folks, being in the top 25 or so often yields that.

4) Top 10% <- my "normal" and reasonable expectation for a climb I put some effort into.

Finally, KoM is really only for climbs, and preferably classified climbs.  Any other are just sort of BS and conditional on wind, groups, drafting, etc..  I think Strava should only have KoMs fo those types of climbs, and the rest can just be "Segment Leaders" or such.

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I wasn't thinking of KOM only though my wording may seem that way. I was wondering how many places one can lose on the strava board with the difference of one minute.

As far as PR's and my monitoring my efforts, on flat sections, I do ride solo efforts only when I go for a PR. 

I'm not into admiring my efforts sucking wheel. :D I had quite a few riders that boasted about sub 5 hour centuries but in a large group. Only to find that with 2 or 3 of us, they could not keep up with a big draft. And my solo century efforts were 5:45 many times. So the big group efforts are not my thing. I am a more solo effort guy. Even on big organized rides, I did my thing solo. If there was any drafting going on, it was people sticking on my wheel. But you are right, the big groups do affect the stats.

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41 minutes ago, Mr Beanz said:

I wasn't thinking of KOM only though my wording may seem that way. I was wondering how many places one can lose on the strava board with the difference of one minute.

Depends on the segment!  Definitely, the longer the segment, the wider the distribution of times.  The longer and more difficult likewise widens it.

I looked at a ride yesterday that was several minutes long.  4:23 is KOM, I'm at 290 @5min 12sec.  So, a minute faster makes me KoM! :D  One min back from me (6min 12sec) is 4,156 place (and probably 100 riders or more at that time).  Pretty much from the KoM on, there are folks every second with each group growing as you get to the 6 or 7 min mark, then, after that, the groups seem start shrinking a bit until eventually reaching a Lantern Rouge.

If you look at a less local, less popular climb out in Shenandoah NP, you'll see fewer folks (5k) and much wider distribution.  So, for me, a minute gains me a jump from 1,522 up to 1,276, so still way out of contention.  Even for the top folks, a minute for anyone outside the top 4 still leaves them off the KoM.

image.png.2c245e6de378794b9c065f71484b63f9.png

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14 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Depends on the segment!  Definitely, the longer the segment, the wider the distribution of times.  The longer and more difficult likewise widens it.

I looked at a ride yesterday that was several minutes long.  4:23 is KOM, I'm at 290 @5min 12sec.  So, a minute faster makes me KoM! :D  One min back from me (6min 12sec) is 4,156 place (and probably 100 riders or more at that time).  Pretty much from the KoM on, there are folks every second with each group growing as you get to the 6 or 7 min mark, then, after that, the groups seem start shrinking a bit until eventually reaching a Lantern Rouge.

If you look at a less local, less popular climb out in Shenandoah NP, you'll see fewer folks (5k) and much wider distribution.  So, for me, a minute gains me a jump from 1,522 up to 1,276, so still way out of contention.  Even for the top folks, a minute for anyone outside the top 4 still leaves them off the KoM.

image.png.2c245e6de378794b9c065f71484b63f9.png

 

 

Ah yes, so you have about a 300 place difference per minute on the segment you mentioned.  That is pretty good and shows plenty of riders.

 

I think it is funny when people post KOM's and #1 leader spots when there are only 10 riders. Heck, one minute can put you from the bottom to the top in those situations. :D Though your example above does as well with more riders.

 

On our local climb of 8 miles up GMR, Sep Kuss is #33.   Too many pros to compere with out here because of the Amgen Tour of Calif. :lol:

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41 minutes ago, Mr Beanz said:

On our local climb of 8 miles up GMR, Sep Kuss is #33.   Too many pros to compere with out here because of the Amgen Tour of Calif. 

Yeah - there needs to be filters for those folks!  Anywhere they go, KoMs fall.  And folks like Kuss might have been pacing himself for much of the climb, so his average - from a race stage - is actually far lower than his potential if just focusing on it as a TT (like Phil Gaimon does). 

I wish I had your local climb.  Life would be good.

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Exactly! You know Sep was not going all out. 

I'm not a big fan of Phil. Though he is fast no doubt, I think it is cheesy that he goes around segment hunting like he does. The tour guys are doing 100+ miles with 10,000+ ft of gain so Phil racing up an 8 mile segment doesn't prove anything IMO when it comes to the KOM.

Heck, I remember one member from dot net, going on the forum and boasting about beating me on a segment of the river trail.

#1 I had no idea that was a segment.

#2 I wouldn't care about that segment even if I knew it was a segment

#3 I had no idea he was competing with me.

The funny thing was, it was a segment of 1/4 mile. He averaged like 19, I averaged about 17.

Turns out his ride was 18 miles at 14 mph and mine was 44 miles at 17 riding with Gina! :cheerleader:

So what did that prove on his part?  I really myself don't care about segments and hunting. I pay attention to one segment on my ride that I have been monitoring since 1996 way before Strava was around, I use Strava as a mileage logging tool.  But it can be interesting to view the stats though I don't use them to compete with friends and others. Even on my favorite segment, I have a few friends who bettered my ride but that is cool. I don't feel the need to go get them back. I just think, what I did is what I did! B)

I remember being in my 30's trying to average 20 on this segment, way before Strava. 7.3 miles. I did it a few times but then later,  Strava came along and I have broken the 20 mph average 99  times in the last 5 years being in my 50's. Can't ask for more than that! My best was 22.9, solo effort over the 7.3 miles back when I was 53 so just happy to be faster in my 50's than in my 30's. 

This is the kind of thing I like about Strava! :party:

 

BTW, effort labels. I have no way to label tandem rides so I always title my rides with the word tandem on my ride. But my solo single rides are faster than the tandem rides so doesn't matter much.

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On 9/14/2021 at 2:51 PM, Mr Beanz said:

I'm not a big fan of Phil. Though he is fast no doubt, I think it is cheesy that he goes around segment hunting like he does. The tour guys are doing 100+ miles with 10,000+ ft of gain so Phil racing up an 8 mile segment doesn't prove anything IMO when it comes to the KOM.

I think that's sort of the point of KoMs, though - specific segments judged as stand-alone activities.  I'd say 95+% are held by folks who targeted that specific KoM, and aren't just "oh, I got a KoM without trying" sort of deal.  So, Phil (and many others) are picking their segments, reconning them, and attacking at optimal moments.  It was huge along the coast where most KoMs I was seeing were run in groups during mega-tailwind days.  Sort of like surfers paying attention to the tides, weather, and waves before deciding if, when, and where to surf. 

I think the point of a KoM is "who has done is quickest", and with all the variables out there that benefit or hurt riders, it still is a line in the sand.  Strava does try to add some degree of sorting and classifications - age or sex - but definitely could add a few more that would help folks do some basic comparisons - like bike type, weather conditions, pro/amateur, group/solo, etc..

Most will remain moot for me as there are few KoMs in my range anymore.  I've got maybe a dozen on my radar, but more to move up than to actually take the top. Since I generally ride to each segment and then ride after each segment, I am loath to burn a bunch of matches mid ride for a KoM attempt, and I will never drive specifically to a KoM attempt. 

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It’s been years since I held a KOM but I’m still proud of one I held for four years.that was well over ten years ago when I moved my 6am workout from the gym to a little used bike trail. Every morning I would ride that trail that makes a loop around the lake. I was unaware that someone had made that loop a segment until Strava had told me I had KOM. That trail had recreational riders on it later in the day I guess. I usually never saw another rider on it when I was riding it. Finally some segment hunters found it and it fell big time. It was my favorite trail before my heart attacks, all hills some quite steep. The trail has become well known now and there are always people on it. It still might be ok at the crack of dawn to try for a KOM but now I’m old and on the wrong kind of bike. I notice the loop has different segments now. A TT segment on the less hilly side of the lake and some short steep climb segments on the hilly side.

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