Razors Edge ★ Posted October 12, 2021 Share #1 Posted October 12, 2021 ...I am definitely frustrated with my front brake. Took the longest adventure yet on my new tubeless wheelset with the 43mm Gravelkings, and was VERY happy with how they felt across pavement and gravel. I am still honing in on the proper PSI so probably higher than is correct right now, but went 40 rear & 35 front. Still felt firm, so that seems a little high and plenty of wiggle room to get down into the lower 30s??? Anyway, the front brake seems to be fouling itself. I have thoroughly wiped down the rotors with rubbing alcohol (wearing rubber gloves), and removed the brake pads and sanded them a bit to get clean(-er) pad surfaces, but within a few minutes of riding and playing with the brakes, the front is squealing again and not very powerful. I also think the pads look dirty again (but may be imagining it). No squeal at 0%-75% brake application, but definitely near the full squeeze, it comes on. Anyway, the pads are resin, and I am not hyper aggressive in sanding them to clean them, but I don't get why the squeal keeps coming back - especially at the final 5mph-0mph finish point. Here's what the pads looked like after a light sanding, but maybe that darker stuff on the left pad is still to "dirty"? Thoughts from crowd? @denniS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisL Posted October 12, 2021 Share #2 Posted October 12, 2021 My rear brake on the Ritchey has developed a similar squeal. I did the alcohol wipe on the rotors and wiped the pads with alcohol as well (no sanding). It’s better but still squeals under hard braking. The Shimano SLX brakes on my old hard tail would squeal like a mutha and only stopped when the pads were replaced. As much as people bag on SRAM brakes the Level’s on my Anthem have been quiet and trouble free… With the loss of braking power, are you noticing more lever pull or sponginess in the lever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longjohn ★ Posted October 12, 2021 Share #3 Posted October 12, 2021 So far my discs have been trouble free. I hope they stay that way because I don’t want to have to learn something new at this stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted October 12, 2021 Author Share #4 Posted October 12, 2021 7 minutes ago, ChrisL said: My rear brake on the Ritchey has developed a similar squeal. I did the alcohol wipe on the rotors and wiped the pads with alcohol as well (no sanding). It’s better but still squeals under hard braking. The Shimano SLX brakes on my old hard tail would squeal like a mutha and only stopped when the pads were replaced. As much as people bag on SRAM brakes the Level’s on my Anthem have been quiet and trouble free… With the loss of braking power, are you noticing more lever pull or sponginess in the lever? Maybe a little sponginess??? Could be in my head? Still can modulate the brakes pretty well, but don't feel like it has super "grab" like the rear (or it used to have). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted October 12, 2021 Author Share #5 Posted October 12, 2021 Just now, Longjohn said: So far my discs have been trouble free. I hope they stay that way because I don’t want to have to learn something new at this stage. Mine were super quiet for the first 1k or so, but then I did a series of mud and slush rides in Jan/Feb, and then left town for several months. I think that's what messed it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinneR ★ Posted October 12, 2021 Share #6 Posted October 12, 2021 Organic pads are quieter than metallic. You could switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted October 12, 2021 Author Share #7 Posted October 12, 2021 4 minutes ago, denniS said: Organic pads are quieter than metallic. You could switch. What the heck are "resin"??? That seems organic??? What's the organic comparable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longjohn ★ Posted October 12, 2021 Share #8 Posted October 12, 2021 My rim brakes on my 520 really howl when they are wet since the bike shop replaced the pads during a tune up. That’s ok, I don’t use my brakes much anyway it’s kind of nice when I come up on waddlers on the bike trail. One touch of my brake and they get clear off the trail. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted October 12, 2021 Author Share #9 Posted October 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Longjohn said: My rim brakes on my 520 really howl when they are wet since the bike shop replaced the pads during a tune up. That’s ok, I don’t use my brakes much anyway it’s kind of nice when I come up on waddlers on the bike trail. One touch of my brake and they get clear off the trail. I am generally insanely "easy" on brakes. I never need to replace brake pads. Not sure what "normal" is for rim pads, but I never replaced them on any bike except my MTB where they started to get super hard after 20+ years. I tend to brake early and lightly (modulate my speed) rather than hard and late (reacting). But, with no disc brake history, I don't really know what to expect or really how to keep them performing well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisL Posted October 12, 2021 Share #10 Posted October 12, 2021 29 minutes ago, Razors Edge said: Mine were super quiet for the first 1k or so, but then I did a series of mud and slush rides in Jan/Feb, and then left town for several months. I think that's what messed it up. Yeah mine were the same, really quiet and then got loud. I really can’t pin point why they got loud but I figured they got contaminated somehow. Sponginess could be brake line issue. Maybe a bubble in the line? A re bleed may be in order but I have always been told you will know for sure like grab a handful of nothing which doesn’t sound like your situation. Maybe others can chime in as I have never had that happen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longjohn ★ Posted October 12, 2021 Share #11 Posted October 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Razors Edge said: I am generally insanely "easy" on brakes. I never need to replace brake pads. Not sure what "normal" is for rim pads, but I never replaced them on any bike except my MTB where they started to get super hard after 20+ years. I tend to brake early and lightly (modulate my speed) rather than hard and late (reacting). But, with no disc brake history, I don't really know what to expect or really how to keep them performing well. I think the bike shop likes changing brake pads. I like to occasionally take my bikes in for a tune up. They don’t need it but I like to support my LBS. I haven’t bought many bikes lately off him once I got all the grandkids their bikes and bought one for their mom. When they do a tune up they also wash the bike and rewrap the bars. They give me the old brake pads and they look like they would be good for a couple thousand miles yet. I have been using my brakes more than I ever did before because my road is in such horrid shape if I let the bike pick up too much speed on the downhills I could be in trouble and I can’t afford to crash being on blood thinners. The thing about our gravel roads is they are not consistent. Parts of them could be pretty good and then you come to a washed out section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinneR ★ Posted October 12, 2021 Share #12 Posted October 12, 2021 25 minutes ago, Razors Edge said: What the heck are "resin"??? That seems organic??? What's the organic comparable? Resin should be quiet compared to metallic. Sram calls theirs organic. I burn through three sets of pads a year on my mtb. That's June-Oct. My gravel bike goes through a set every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted October 12, 2021 Author Share #13 Posted October 12, 2021 1 hour ago, denniS said: Resin should be quiet compared to metallic. Sram calls theirs organic. I burn through three sets of pads a year on my mtb. That's June-Oct. My gravel bike goes through a set every year. How does that wear and tear compare to your old days on rim brakes? I have heard that disc brake pads are more "consumable" than rim pads, but this seems excessive! And there definitely seems to be plenty of pad left, so not sure whether I should take off more next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsharr ★ Posted October 12, 2021 Share #14 Posted October 12, 2021 2 hours ago, denniS said: Organic pads are quieter than metallic. You could switch. what organs are they made from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinneR ★ Posted October 12, 2021 Share #15 Posted October 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Razors Edge said: How does that wear and tear compare to your old days on rim brakes? I have heard that disc brake pads are more "consumable" than rim pads, but this seems excessive! And there definitely seems to be plenty of pad left, so not sure whether I should take off more next time. I almost never replace rim pads. With hydros, they say you should bleed them once a year and check your pads frequently. Yours look awesome in the photo. You can measure them. The pad should be 3 mm or thicker. If you don't have calipers, stack 3 business cards and line it up to the pad, not including the backing. That should be 3 mm. I bet you'll get at least a year or more out of your pads. Like I said, my mtb pads last about a month. My gravel bike-1 year. Same with my fatbike. If you run the pads down too far, you will destroy the rotor. Don't ask how I know that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinneR ★ Posted October 12, 2021 Share #16 Posted October 12, 2021 1 hour ago, jsharr said: what organs are they made from? Liver and kidneys mostly. I bet they grind up old pads for haggis. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longjohn ★ Posted October 12, 2021 Share #17 Posted October 12, 2021 No pesticides or chemical fertilizers are used in the making of organic brake pads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinneR ★ Posted October 13, 2021 Share #18 Posted October 13, 2021 On our hut trip this summer, one guy had really loud brakes. I told him his brakes sounded like hell. He said that's why I use earbuds. I just turn up the music so I don't hear it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted October 13, 2021 Author Share #19 Posted October 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, denniS said: On our hut trip this summer, one guy had really loud brakes. I told him his brakes sounded like hell. He said that's why I use earbuds. I just turn up the music so I don't hear it. I will often pass folks out riding with the LOUDEST noises coming from their bikes. And then I see them, and, of course, earbuds/headphones drowning it all out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisL Posted October 13, 2021 Share #20 Posted October 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, denniS said: On our hut trip this summer, one guy had really loud brakes. I told him his brakes sounded like hell. He said that's why I use earbuds. I just turn up the music so I don't hear it. One time I came up on a gaggle of people on a MUP and hit my brakes pretty hard. The shrill Squeal from the rear brake scared the sheot out of them and they moved quickly out of the way. I thought, hmm maybe I don’t need that bell after all! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinneR ★ Posted October 13, 2021 Share #21 Posted October 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, Razors Edge said: I will often pass folks out riding with the LOUDEST noises coming from their bikes. And then I see them, and, of course, earbuds/headphones drowning it all out. So quit trying to make your brakes quiet and get some earbuds. FYI, my BB7s make noise, but work great. I try not to worry about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted October 13, 2021 Author Share #22 Posted October 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, ChrisL said: One time I came up on a gaggle of people on a MUP and hit my brakes pretty hard. The shrill Squeal from the rear brake scared the sheot out of them and they moved quickly out of the way. I thought, hmm maybe I don’t need that bell after all! Mine sounds like a VERY ANGRY goose when I brake, but it has to be when almost at a standstill as otherwise I am not grabbing that much brake (to avoid a header!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solution donkpow Posted October 13, 2021 Solution Share #23 Posted October 13, 2021 Brake "squeal" is actually a high frequency vibration. Once your rotors get bedded in, you have more stopping power because some of the material from the pads is now imbedded on the rotor and vice versa. So the squeal is an audible high frequency 'grab and release' repeating sequence. It's why your brakes didn't squeal so bad when they were new. What to do now? Get over yourself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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