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When do you abandon the Titanic?


Parr8hed
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My employer is a big Nation wide conglomerate.  By all practical thought they are fairly safe.  Here locally we have some new management.  Lots of issues.  a  lot of long time employees have left.  Staffing is an issue (as it is with lots of places nowadays).  

I have wondered if it is still safe?  Are staffing levels adequate?  Lots of new employees?  Do I trust the new management?  Is it time to jump off the sinking ship?  Or stay and be part of the crew that rights the distressed vessel?  

Decisions....

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5 minutes ago, Parr8hed said:

My employer is a big Nation wide conglomerate.  By all practical thought they are fairly safe.  Here locally we have some new management.  Lots of issues.  a  lot of long time employees have left.  Staffing is an issue (as it is with lots of places nowadays).  

I have wondered if it is still safe?  Are staffing levels adequate?  Lots of new employees?  Do I trust the new management?  Is it time to jump off the sinking ship?  Or stay and be part of the crew that rights the distressed vessel?  

Decisions....

It is the question of the year for many.  Pay raises when you move far exceed what most business will give you (without an offer to counter).  Likewise, new folks coming in often mean MORE work for you as they require time to ramp up and also take time to fill empty positions.  If your pay doesn't jump from the added workload (and stress and responsibility), it's a question of "what are they doing for me, while I am doing XYZ + ABC now for them".

As ever, it never hurts to look and rethink your options.  God knows they would cut you in a heartbeat if it meant executive bonuses were at stake.

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4 minutes ago, Old No. 7 said:

Question: if you jumped, where would you go?

 

4 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

It would seem that in the medical profession there are great opportunities.  Am I wrong?

Everyone is hiring right now.  I could go literally anywhere.  I was thinking of acute dialysis.  Like seeing people in the hospital to dialyze them.  Scheduling would be a big deal for me.  I would continue to need most weekends off.  That is the big deal here.  Would I be able to do that?

 

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3 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

It is the question of the year for many.  Pay raises when you move far exceed what most business will give you (without an offer to counter).  Likewise, new folks coming in often mean MORE work for you as they require time to ramp up and also take time to fill empty positions.  If your pay doesn't jump from the added workload (and stress and responsibility), it's a question of "what are they doing for me, while I am doing XYZ + ABC now for them".

As ever, it never hurts to look and rethink your options.  God knows they would cut you in a heartbeat if it meant executive bonuses were at stake.

My thoughts exactly.   A lot of former people have been re-hired.  You know its a shit ton more for them to leave and come back.  I feel like I am missing out on some major monies.  

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22 minutes ago, Parr8hed said:

My thoughts exactly.   A lot of former people have been re-hired.  You know its a shit ton more for them to leave and come back.  I feel like I am missing out on some major monies.  

I hated this when I was still working.  It turned out that they were hiring new people who couldn't do what I did while getting paid more than I was.  I finally went to my boss with a WTF.  They suddenly paid me more.  Within the year they eliminated my job.  I guess it's not nice to point out the the boss that they are behaving like assholes with employees.

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25 minutes ago, Parr8hed said:

My thoughts exactly.   A lot of former people have been re-hired.  You know its a shit ton more for them to leave and come back.  I feel like I am missing out on some major monies.  

@Razors Edge makes a good point in it doesn’t hurt to look. More options are better than less options.  It also seems you have your family high on the priority list with weekends off.  Can that be accommodated elsewhere? You never know until you look.

I know it seems like ages from now but in the near future your kids will be out living their lives and you will have more flexibility.  For the next 5-6 years it may be worth staying in a situation that works for you/family and ride it out. 

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Do you have the bandwidth to oversee a major restructure?  How big of a cog in this machine can you be or do you want to be?  How big is the carrot on the stick they are waving in front of you to keep you plodding on?   If you want to help, go up the chain and start the dialouge.  Voice your concerns and share some thoughts how to help.  You have the boots on the ground perspective that corporate may be lacking.

If you decide to jump, do you have a lifeboat waiting?

 

 

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7 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

I know it seems like ages from now but in the near future your kids will be out living their lives and you will have more flexibility.  For the next 5-6 years it may be worth staying in a situation that works for you/family and ride it out. 

That’s what I was thinking. Your baby will be in college in four years. You will never regret the time you spent with your kids. And your kids will cherish the time their dad spent with them and have a good example for when they start a family of how a family should function.

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To follow your analogy, and putting emotions and/or 'sense of duty' aside...., you abandon a boat when you are safer in the water than you are on the boat.

Sometimes that means staying on board until someone to rescue you is on site, sometimes it mean taking your chances with the sharks.

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33 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

@Razors Edge makes a good point in it doesn’t hurt to look. More options are better than less options.  It also seems you have your family high on the priority list with weekends off.  Can that be accommodated elsewhere? You never know until you look.

I know it seems like ages from now but in the near future your kids will be out living their lives and you will have more flexibility.  For the next 5-6 years it may be worth staying in a situation that works for you/family and ride it out. 

Believe me, that is a huge part of why I stay.  I plan on being here another 5 years and then I am out anyways.    

Everyone brings up some great points.  Thanks!

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This is a tough call and I have been in your shoes. In 2002 we chose family over money by staying here. We knew the schools our kids were in and the neighborhood we are in. I was not ready to uproot them from school just to maintain my income. 
In 2011, our kids were just finishing school when it would have been better financially for us to move for WoW’s career. That time we stayed because our(especially my) parents needed help. 
This time we are at a split 50/50 of moving closer to some family and moving away from others. If the interview today pans out, I will see a significant pay increase. My current employer will be in a bind, but I have been under compensated for a while. It’s time for a change. 
It’s your call. I don’t regret the path I took but it’s different for everyone 

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8 minutes ago, Parr8hed said:

Believe me, that is a huge part of why I stay.  I plan on being here another 5 years and then I am out anyways.    

Everyone brings up some great points.  Thanks!

Yeah - you DO have a family, so safer is better in many regards.  My perspective is different due to the no kids, no real responsibilities angle, but kids require a level of safety that I don't have to meet.

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2 hours ago, Parr8hed said:

Is it time to jump off the sinking ship?

I would suggest not looking at individual pieces of information (i.e. my manager left) but patterns and trends (i.e. 50% of senior management left).  It's not so much what is happening today as what's been happening over time that gives you an indication of a company's direction.

Lots of new management means lots of old senior management left, unless the company has greatly expanded. Why did they leave, and do the reasons for senior managers leaving apply to you?

It's something easy for outsiders to see, but employees are so caught up in the day to day they miss the proverbial forest looking at the trees.

Example: I worked for smaller manufacturing company that had $32 million dollars in reserve.  Doesn't sound bad, except their annual 'burn rate' for spending was $33 million.  That combined with most senior management taking their stock options and leaving, entry level management getting laid off, the remaining employees getting tasked with greater workload without added compensation - and I was out the door heading to another job.

That company is still in business, remarkably, but if I hadn't got laid off I might still be there, but I wouldn't be making anywhere close to my current salary.

There are no hard answers to your question.  That being said, sometimes the best way to get the answer to a fuzzy question is not to look for your answer in hard data.  Look, as I suggested, in the long term patterns and trends.  You probably won't get that definite answer (and you likely never will), but you can get a good sense of what's going on - a sense that will trigger your intuition.  Don't undersell that intuition.

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38 minutes ago, MoseySusan said:

I hear putting the squeeze on deadbeats for one of their kidneys is good money. You could probably have a lot of control of your schedule, but you’d have to work night… :whistle:

Now that you mention it, aren't the Chinese or the Russians (or maybe Saudis??) always looking for folks to do those bathtub kidney operations? You know, the ones where they knock you out at a hotel, and you wake up in a tub full of ice with a note that they took your kidneys so you better call 911???

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3 hours ago, Parr8hed said:

My employer is a big Nation wide conglomerate.  By all practical thought they are fairly safe.  Here locally we have some new management.  Lots of issues.  a  lot of long time employees have left.  Staffing is an issue (as it is with lots of places nowadays).  

I have wondered if it is still safe?  Are staffing levels adequate?  Lots of new employees?  Do I trust the new management?  Is it time to jump off the sinking ship?  Or stay and be part of the crew that rights the distressed vessel?  

Decisions....

That's tough.  Are there benefits, retirement, etc., that get lost or diminish if you leave before a certain number of years?

Our high school system got worse and worse from the time the 2000's began. I went from 120 students/year to 170 and I taught ALL lab classes that required a lot of set-up.  At that time, they pretty much did away with the Senior Aide system when kids who had plenty of credits to spare could do a period where they assisted a teacher.  Mine helped set-up labs.

Almost every veteran teacher wanted out - but we were stuck in that job.

The state retirement pension is back-ended: it's based on your final (highest) pay x a percentage based on number of years worked.  Also, the near-Cadillac BCBS retiree health insurance that becomes Medicare Supplemental at 65 is 75% subsidized by the school system but ONLY if you spent your last 20 years in that school system.

When I walked down the halls of the school in my final year, other teachers would smile at me and shake one, two, or three fingers at me to show how many years they had before they would retire.

 

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