Wilbur ★ Posted October 16, 2021 Share #1 Posted October 16, 2021 https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10097587/Boeing-employees-Seattle-organize-group-sickout-Fridays-protest-COVID-vaccine-mandate.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Kosciuszko Posted October 16, 2021 Share #2 Posted October 16, 2021 A company can tell employees to get the vaccine or lose their job. Everybody's talking about the ones who will lose their jobs What nobody is talking about is the ones who will unwillingly get vaccinated only to preserve their jobs and will harbor resentment because of that. And what the company will find difficult to quantify is how much productivity they lost and from whom because these people resent what the company made them do and are now putting less effort into their jobs. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted October 16, 2021 Share #3 Posted October 16, 2021 All things considered, I think society's betterment trumps Boeing's long term employee happiness. Lucky for the Boeing folks, they have lots of options for other job opportunities these days, so if there is ever a great time to change jobs, now is one of them! With the rest of their coworkers pulling us out of the COVID era, they'll also have better life opportunities open up again - the travel, vacations, parties, gatherings, etc. - that we all took for granted before some wackadoo groups decided it was cool to be anti-everything. We'll get there, Wilbur! Don't let the "antis" wear you down 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddmaxx ★ Posted October 16, 2021 Share #4 Posted October 16, 2021 30 minutes ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said: A company can tell employees to get the vaccine or lose their job. Everybody's talking about the ones who will lose their jobs What nobody is talking about is the ones who will unwillingly get vaccinated only to preserve their jobs and will harbor resentment because of that. And what the company will find difficult to quantify is how much productivity they lost and from whom because these people resent what the company made them do and are now putting less effort into their jobs. That's a good way to show how valuable you are eh? This is when unions go bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Wheels Posted October 16, 2021 Share #5 Posted October 16, 2021 I lost one yesterday due to not getting the vaccine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted October 16, 2021 Share #6 Posted October 16, 2021 4 minutes ago, Square Wheels said: I lost one yesterday due to not getting the vaccine. Greener pastures for them, surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Wheels Posted October 16, 2021 Share #7 Posted October 16, 2021 11 minutes ago, Razors Edge said: Greener pastures for them, surely? Religious post below. Spoiler They prayed for weeks, then this past weekend received several signs for God that they should not get the vaccine. God has only been in their life for a few years. This person has been with us over 20 years. It's a low paying field, and I am not aware of them having another income source. While talking yesterday, I asked what they plan to do for work next, they are waiting for God to tell them. They also have significant arthritis and God recently told them to stop taking their meds. Their wrists are now so swollen they can barely move their hands and they are in a tremendous amount of pain. Really hard choices for someone with such strong convictions. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Kosciuszko Posted October 16, 2021 Share #8 Posted October 16, 2021 19 minutes ago, maddmaxx said: That's a good way to show how valuable you are eh? I agree that it's not the best way to secure your place at a company. However people don't always make the most rational decisions, but instead let their emotions guide their actions. It doesn't take many employees to adversely affect business while they still perform an adequate, or even just passable job. In today's labor market, a business is more likely to keep a marginal employee - and marginal employees know that. I've been through layoffs/firings at several places where I worked where I was one of the 'lucky' ones to remain. No matter what the reason for the job action, morale of the remaining employees took a hit. It didn't help that the ones who were left didn't receive any increase in pay when they had to absorb the workload of those who were escorted out the door. It didn't help either when those left saw dedicated, hard-working, high-performing employees getting an escort off company property. Even though the reasons for the present layoff/firing/whateveryouwanttocallit at Boeing are different from those they've had before, the remaining employees' human reaction to it will be about the same as what happened after previous layoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrAzY Posted October 16, 2021 Share #9 Posted October 16, 2021 speaking of this executive order... anyone have a site where I can honestly read though this.. or was nothing written down? I cant seem to find anything on this besides what the media says and a Buch of blah blah blah for different new sites.. There has to be something right.. it's EASY to find and read though house bills and senate bills.. but where is this order at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddmaxx ★ Posted October 16, 2021 Share #10 Posted October 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said: I agree that it's not the best way to secure your place at a company. However people don't always make the most rational decisions, but instead let their emotions guide their actions. It doesn't take many employees to adversely affect business while they still perform an adequate, or even just passable job. In today's labor market, a business is more likely to keep a marginal employee - and marginal employees know that. I've been through layoffs/firings at several places where I worked where I was one of the 'lucky' ones to remain. No matter what the reason for the job action, morale of the remaining employees took a hit. It didn't help that the ones who were left didn't receive any increase in pay when they had to absorb the workload of those who were escorted out the door. It didn't help either when those left saw dedicated, hard-working, high-performing employees getting an escort off company property. Even though the reasons for the present layoff/firing/whateveryouwanttocallit at Boeing are different from those they've had before, the remaining employees' human reaction to it will be about the same as what happened after previous layoffs. When I took care of the jet engine test cells at P$W aircraft I was salary. Much of the work that needed doing on a repair when an engine wasn't able to operate was performed by union electricians who vastly prefered to hang around their shop than rush out to repair a cell quickly so the engines could get back to testing. Many times I made their repair. They filed grievances and the company told me that if many more were filed they'd have to let me go. I made a deal with the electricians. If I fixed something I stopped by their shop so they could log it in the book as if they'd done it. The grievances stopped but more importantly the engines ran on time. The company didn't care of course. When the big layoffs came I was salary with no union protection so out the door I went. The only person it mattered to was me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Kosciuszko Posted October 17, 2021 Share #11 Posted October 17, 2021 5 hours ago, maddmaxx said: When the big layoffs came I was salary with a union target painted on my back... I worked for at a research center for an international company. They were installing a research machine that ran a process so hot it used molten aluminum for cooling. (Aluminum melts ~1200F) The machine was about the size of a motor home, only it stood on end. The factory techs installed the machine, ran through their preliminary checklists, and said they were ready for the next step - turn on the power. Except the circuit breaker feeding the machine wouldn't stay closed. It kept popping back open. The circuit breaker wasn't like the ones you have at home. It looked like this: and was installed in a switchboard similar to this: While the factory techs sat getting paid twiddling their thumbs, the project engineer worked for a day trying to fix it. He called in two union plant electricians who each had 40 years experience and could fix anything in the plant, and after two more days they quit and walked away. I was the youngest electrical engineer in the facilities group, and the project engineer ask me for help because he had no other options. I asked him for the schematic of the switchboard, and about four hours later I had the power on after fixing the breaker with a wire tie. Of course the union filed a grievance because they hadn't installed the wire tie, and more so because they were embarrassed that the fix was so simple and they didn't figure it out. The grievance failed because the contract between the union and the company said engineers could do repair work inside switchboards like the one shown. But the union wasn't done with me yet. When I got my next performance review, the union had pressured my boss, and my boss' boss, to give me the worst possible rating one could receive and not get fired. So I started digging into the company HR manual to find out my options, and discovered an employee could not be given a review that bad unless he'd received a 'counseling session' from HR and his boss. Which, of course, had never happened because the union wanted to blindside me with the bad appraisal. I pointed out this to HR and my boss, and told them they could not give me that bad of a review because they'd never counseled me on my 'poor' performance. This paragraph, see, right here in the company HR manual. They withdrew the review. But my boss didn't want to touch this hot potato with a 10 foot pole, lest the union come after him too. So he told me to write my own review! I gave myself a good one. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted October 17, 2021 Share #12 Posted October 17, 2021 16 hours ago, KrAzY said: speaking of this executive order... anyone have a site where I can honestly read though this.. or was nothing written down? I cant seem to find anything on this besides what the media says and a Buch of blah blah blah for different new sites.. There has to be something right.. it's EASY to find and read though house bills and senate bills.. but where is this order at? Executive Orders are generally - for a couple decades now - published up on the White House website. Not sure which one you are looking for, but one example would be the "Protecting Federal Contractors from COVID" sort of thing - ie: if you are bidding for a contract with the Feds, one of the rules is that you are vaxxing up your workforce sort of dealios. IOW - want a fed contract? Follow some set of rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrAzY Posted October 17, 2021 Share #13 Posted October 17, 2021 10 minutes ago, Razors Edge said: Executive Orders are generally - for a couple decades now - published up on the White House website. Not sure which one you are looking for, but one example would be the "Protecting Federal Contractors from COVID" sort of thing - ie: if you are bidding for a contract with the Feds, one of the rules is that you are vaxxing up your workforce sort of dealios. IOW - want a fed contract? Follow some set of rules. Thanks, I was hopping that there would be more than just a word document tossed onto a website to read. something more like a couple pages of a house bill or anything along those lines. To me.. that is just a non binging agreement that anyone can say is law since Someone just threw it out there on the internets. It would probably look more official if it had a jpg of his signature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddmaxx ★ Posted October 17, 2021 Share #14 Posted October 17, 2021 16 hours ago, Square Wheels said: Religious post below. Hide contents They prayed for weeks, then this past weekend received several signs for God that they should not get the vaccine. God has only been in their life for a few years. This person has been with us over 20 years. It's a low paying field, and I am not aware of them having another income source. While talking yesterday, I asked what they plan to do for work next, they are waiting for God to tell them. They also have significant arthritis and God recently told them to stop taking their meds. Their wrists are now so swollen they can barely move their hands and they are in a tremendous amount of pain. Really hard choices for someone with such strong convictions. IMO it's ok to let some people fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted October 17, 2021 Author Share #15 Posted October 17, 2021 I am hearing Sowthwest will be experiencing more "weather" events during the holiday season this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphie ★ Posted October 17, 2021 Share #16 Posted October 17, 2021 47 minutes ago, Wilbur said: Sowthwest Hey!! You should fly for them! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphie ★ Posted October 17, 2021 Share #17 Posted October 17, 2021 Why is Southwest more of a target than the others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted October 17, 2021 Author Share #18 Posted October 17, 2021 Just now, Philander Seabury said: Why is Southwest more of a target than the others? Bad weather affects them more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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