So am an outlier...wanting a desktop computer

[shootingstar]

A colleague just told me that I was the only person out of 7 others in our group, who still wanted a desktop at workplace.  Boss is trying to juggle between costs of new laptops vs. swapping newer desktops for older ones the need to go to graveyard.

I have zero interest lugging back a laptop  between work and home. After 1-2 hrs., on a laptop, I jus prefer a proper ergonomic setup of desktop. I know there are all sorts of desk configurations for laptop....but in the end, the laptop becomes a CPU in its docking station, while I use a full-width keyboard, mouse and regular screens.

I'm sorry-- I've managed to be carpal-tunnel syndrome-free for the past 3 decades for a job that has  been 90% computer-based for the past 25 yrs.  Then at home, for personal surfing/use am on 'Net for a few hrs. each day.  I really need and know the advantages of an optimal erogonomic computer workstation set-up.  The proof is my own good hand/arm health and lack of neck pain.

[Ralphie ★]

I also prefer a grandpa box at work. No muss, no fuss, nothing to lose or break or get stolen. 
I used to log in to work from home once in a while, but getting Outlook and Teams and just texting on the phone has taken the place of that almost completely. 

[shootingstar]

Little laptops are handy when travelling and staying somewhere.

Otherwise I don't give a sheot what other people think of me.  I don't want to be like some youngsters in pain.

I don't want to be 4 different employees that I know well in my present organization in different depts....where 2 of them had wrist/hand surgery for carpal tunnel syndrome. One of them couldn't ride his bike for a yr. post surgery.

3rd one is a close friend...who suffered pain last yr. alot,  multiple physio sesssions, took medical leave... She also used her iphone way too much...those micro movements of  hand are not good ..any physiotherapist will tell you plus the neck pain of dropping head too far down too long. She goes into work DAILY to use her desktop even though the building is 90% empty because it's less pain for her now.  She still can't go cycling.

4th person complained she had some pain...she's 25 yrs. younger than I. Her job requires AUTOCAD and other software program use...she is a GIS person also.

****For previous employers, I have managed several employees who had carpal tunnel syndrome....

[Dottleshead ★]

I don't know why you can't have both with a laptop.  I'll never go back to a desktop because I just plug in my monitor, keyboard, mouse, and Ethernet connection to my portable computer.  The only thing important at your 'desk' is the size of your monitor and your desk/chair.  You don't need a desktop box computer to get that.  As it is now, my laptop acts as my desktop and I've never needed to move it around but I certainly could much easier than some box computer.

[Bikeguy]

WoBG has a desktop.  The computer has a much larger screen than the 15" screen on my laptop. 

I like how I can use my laptop anywhere in our home.   Like now... I'm in my recliner.    

 

[Dottleshead ★]

Honestly, it's not very hard to plug in your video cable into your laptop.  I have a 42 inch 4K monitor on my desk that doesn't go anywhere.  It's bloody simple to plug into my laptop.  My point is -- this doesn't have to be a binary decision.  You can have a laptop and a desktop provided you know how to plug in a cable or two.  Simple.

[Kirby]

I tend to work from home a bit (at least when I still went into the office during the day) so the laptop is  useful to me (plus with a car commute, it's easy to carry), but I can see why a desktop may work better for you.

[shootingstar]

31 minutes ago, Dottles said:

I don't know why you can't have both with a laptop.  I'll never go back to a desktop because I just plug in my monitor, keyboard, mouse, and Ethernet connection to my portable computer.  The only thing important at your 'desk' is the size of your monitor and your desk/chair.  You don't need a desktop box computer to get that.  As it is now, my laptop acts as my desktop and I've never needed to move it around but I certainly could much easier than some box computer.

As an office employer in our organization, they are planning we be at office 30% of time once covid is over.  I think from the standpoint of deterring theft in the workplace, leaving a laptop in docking station during time when I'm not there, is not  a great business decision. I won't be taking a work laptop home. My home desktop has been setup properly for WFH for past 20 months.

We've had a range of workplace thefts over the years. That will not stop. Our organization owns and manages over 200 buildings locally. (I work for municipal govn't. Workplace includes every equipment oriented building also.)  We don't have security cameras in every single employee workplace area...in public areas, yes.

[Dottleshead ★]

1 minute ago, shootingstar said:

As an office employer in our organization, they are planning we be at office 30% of time once covid is over.  I think from the standpoint of deterring theft in the workplace, I don't leaving a laptop in docking station during time, I'm not there, a great business decision. I won't be taking a work laptop home. My home desktop has been setup properly for WFH for past 20 months.

We've had a range of workplace thefts over the years. That will not stop. Our organization owns and manages over 200 buildings locally.

That's fair.  

[Dottleshead ★]

5 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

As an office employer in our organization, they are planning we be at office 30% of time once covid is over.  I think from the standpoint of deterring theft in the workplace, leaving a laptop in docking station during time when I'm not there, is not  a great business decision. I won't be taking a work laptop home. My home desktop has been setup properly for WFH for past 20 months.

We've had a range of workplace thefts over the years. That will not stop. Our organization owns and manages over 200 buildings locally. (I work for municipal govn't. Workplace includes every equipment oriented building also.)  We don't have security cameras in every single employee workplace area...in public areas, yes.

My only question is -- why are you worried about this when everyone else in your department isn't?  And are you really telling me Canadians are thieves??  My image of the Great White North has been blown.

[maddmaxx ★]

Laptops have legs.

[maddmaxx ★]

3 minutes ago, Dottles said:

My only question is -- why are you worried about this when everyone else in your department isn't?  And are you really telling me Canadians are thieves??  My image of the Great White North has been blown.

Correct.  She should know her place as a round peg in a round hole just like everyone else.  

[shootingstar]

17 minutes ago, Dottles said:

My only question is -- why are you worried about this when everyone else in your department isn't?  And are you really telling me Canadians are thieves??  My image of the Great White North has been blown.

 Actually it is my boss, I'll be intrigued what she figures out re near future computers and staff needs. She uses her laptop. I think she's in her 30's....or maybe by now she's seen trends/problems I've witnessed with employees. I doubt she knows about theft problems..she's been with us only 1 yr. prior to private sector.

Yea. In early days, employees have had their webcams stolen.  People have made it onto our floors during the day and taken off with purse. 

Once in a large private law firm in  Vancouver, I was chatting with 2 employees and then suddenly this strange, non-employee jogged past us in the library.....we alerted security immediately.  This was in middle of the day! This is not even a public library.

[Dottleshead ★]

It seems odd to me that a place with such a theft issue is ordering laptops for their employees.  If they're really concerned about that, it seems to me they'd be taking measures to prevent it.  Perhaps their insurance policy is much better than you think it is.  

[Razors Edge ★]

Just now, Dottles said:

It seems odd to me that a place with such a theft issue is ordering laptops for their employees.  If they're really concerned about that, it seems to me they'd be taking measures to prevent it.  Perhaps their insurance policy is much better than you think it is.  

We give a laptop lock with all laptops.  Pretty difficult to steal them without making a big deal about it (bolt cutters?), but sure, unlocked laptops can be easier to steal a desktop from the sheer bulkiness of the desktop.

And, yep, my laptop can either be a laptop or a desktop - ie completely standalone w/ no extra mouse, keyboard, or monitor needed OR with any set of monitors I want, any keyboard I want, and any mouse I want simply by plopping it into a docking station (or plugging the cables in directly).

IOW, a laptop is the best of both worlds for anyone not desiring to customize their PC after buying it.

[ChrisL]

The last two jobs I had we all used desktops 80% of the time, phones 18% of the time laptop 2% of the time.  The last business trip I took I didn’t even bring my laptop.  

We set up all of our remote employees with a desk top, keyboard & 2 monitors and there are workstations if they want to come in with the exact same set up.  I’d say less than 5% in my company  have laptops.

My wife has a laptop but has a keyboard & 2 monitors at home.  I’m guessing when she goes back to the office they will have a comparable set up for her to plug into. 

[ChrisL]

2 hours ago, Dottles said:

It seems odd to me that a place with such a theft issue is ordering laptops for their employees.  If they're really concerned about that, it seems to me they'd be taking measures to prevent it.  Perhaps their insurance policy is much better than you think it is.  

When we lose a computer (and we rarely do) it’s more of an InfoSec issue to be sure there is no PII.  We don’t even bat an eye on the loss of the asset.  Shoot I’d venture to guess we lost hundreds of PC’s & monitors due to turnover after we sent home nearly our entire workforce last year.

[MickinMD ★]

I had to have a computer in my classroom and a computer at my school lead-teacher office desk office at a time when it wasn't as convenient as now to transfer information quickly between computers.  So a laptop worked for me.

At home, in the 90's and early 00's, there were cards you plugged into the back of a desktop computer that did video editing, upgraded Internet speed, etc. that you couldn't plug into laptops and I always had one at home.

But eventually, the laptop could do all I wanted including the large screens I love, so I have a very-fast, 17" laptop at home and a 17" old backup with a CD/DVD drive in case I need to get info from an old DVD or CD.

[Longjohn ★]

When my wife went on short term disability her boss came to the house to get the device that connected her to the government files and computers. They were going to leave her laptop and all her other equipment. She asked them to take everything because it didn’t look like she would be returning to work. When she went on long term disability one of her friends cleaned out her desk and brought everything to us. Just more stuff for me to deal with. I would have left it all there and let the people that could use it have it.

[maddmaxx ★]

We didn't get laptops in the last place I worked.  Laptops were reserved for the non working management as a status symbol.  Worker bees got workstations.

[bikeman564™]

I've always had desk top 'puters. Home and work.

[Razors Edge ★]

12 hours ago, ChrisL said:

When we lose a computer (and we rarely do) it’s more of an InfoSec issue to be sure there is no PII.  We don’t even bat an eye on the loss of the asset.  Shoot I’d venture to guess we lost hundreds of PC’s & monitors due to turnover after we sent home nearly our entire workforce last year.

Our lifecycle for laptops (and, if we had them, desktops) would be 4 yrs.  That's a pretty long time, but we refresh them 25%/yr, so folks are fairly regularly getting a mostly modern laptop. We also have a built in pool of break-fix and change request laptops, so if you really want a new laptop - out of cycle - you just call helpdesk and request it.  Anyway, the OLD laptops (and monitors & keyboards)? Those are a royal PITA as we need to dispose of them - and often they just pile up in a store room until we have an agreement with Dell (or whoever) to take them off our hands and securely destroy/recycle them.  Likewise, out data center has a hard drive shredder for mass destruction of that stuff.  It's pretty amazing at how people vs orgs look at computers.  To the people, their personal stuff like a laptop is an asset.  To the orgs, I think is a tool that wears out and then is a problem to sort out.

And, until recently, we didn't even really try to "reclaim" the old laptops.  It was more just a security thing where that laptop was no longer "trusted" on the internal network when the new one was activated.  That rendered the old one "useless" (from a org perspective), but anyone could then wipe the drives and install Windows/Linux and be good to go with an "outdated" laptop.  Now, with no one in offices, when you get your new laptop, they include a FedEx label for the return of the old laptop.  I don't actually know if they ever care if it comes back or not, but they do have it in the "process flow".

[JerrySTL ★]

At home I have a mini-tower computer hooked to two monitors. I also have a laptop that I seldom used.

At my last job I did have a laptop, but it was hooked to a docking station so I had a normal keyboard, mouse, and two monitors. Even when I was working from home, I had 2 monitors. 

With my poor eyesight, I have trouble using even the largest laptop screen.

[maddmaxx ★]

1 hour ago, Razors Edge said:

Our lifecycle for laptops (and, if we had them, desktops) would be 4 yrs.  That's a pretty long time, but we refresh them 25%/yr, so folks are fairly regularly getting a mostly modern laptop. We also have a built in pool of break-fix and change request laptops, so if you really want a new laptop - out of cycle - you just call helpdesk and request it.  Anyway, the OLD laptops (and monitors & keyboards)? Those are a royal PITA as we need to dispose of them - and often they just pile up in a store room until we have an agreement with Dell (or whoever) to take them off our hands and securely destroy/recycle them.  Likewise, out data center has a hard drive shredder for mass destruction of that stuff.  It's pretty amazing at how people vs orgs look at computers.  To the people, their personal stuff like a laptop is an asset.  To the orgs, I think is a tool that wears out and then is a problem to sort out.

And, until recently, we didn't even really try to "reclaim" the old laptops.  It was more just a security thing where that laptop was no longer "trusted" on the internal network when the new one was activated.  That rendered the old one "useless" (from a org perspective), but anyone could then wipe the drives and install Windows/Linux and be good to go with an "outdated" laptop.  Now, with no one in offices, when you get your new laptop, they include a FedEx label for the return of the old laptop.  I don't actually know if they ever care if it comes back or not, but they do have it in the "process flow".

That's just because unlike private owners you can just pass the cost along.  Business is great.

[Razors Edge ★]

1 minute ago, maddmaxx said:

That's just because unlike private owners you can just pass the cost along.  Business is great.

We are discussing SS's work computer options, correct????

[ChrisL]

15 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

We are discussing SS's work computer options, correct????

I think the point is private organizations vs public.  Can public entities amortize costs like private companies? 
 

[MoseySusan]

I preferred a desktop at work. I’d rather type on a tilted keyboard than a laptop. 
And I set that email auto-reply every day at 4pm…I’m away from my computer and will reply tomorrow. A laptop (and smart phone) makes people believe you carry the work with you 24/7. 

[Razors Edge ★]

5 minutes ago, MoseySusan said:

I preferred a desktop at work. I’d rather type on a tilted keyboard than a laptop. 

Keyboards plug right into a laptop.  Mice plug right into a laptop.  Monitors plug right into a laptop.  A laptop can sit quietly in the same space as a desktop, but be taken with you if you happen to want/need too take a computer with you.

[MoseySusan]

5 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Keyboards plug right into a laptop.  Mice plug right into a laptop.  Monitors plug right into a laptop.

All this plugging and unplugging, carrying and charge cord management, expectation that work can travel…. Madness. 

[Square Wheels]

9 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Keyboards plug right into a laptop.  Mice plug right into a laptop.  Monitors plug right into a laptop.  A laptop can sit quietly in the same space as a desktop, but be taken with you if you happen to want/need too take a computer with you.

Docking Station

[ChrisL]

1 minute ago, MoseySusan said:

All this plugging and unplugging, carrying and charge cord management, expectation that work can travel…. Madness. 

It’s a matter of perspectives. For guys like me working anywhere is a plus.  Addressing a matter from the waiting room of the dentist just situates a matter quickly & less issues when I do get in.  But I have always had a job that requires me to be connected 24/7.  I could never just turn off my computer & be done for the day. 

[Razors Edge ★]

2 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

Docking Station

Folks plug in a keyboard, mouse, and monitor(s) to a desktop. Not sure what the difference would be with a laptop   And a docking station just makes it MUCH easier.  Honestly,  even if I just took my laptop home once a year, it would be worth it over a desktop.  Of course, I WFH full time the past 18 months, so a laptop is even more essential, but when I was just WFH one or two days a week, a laptop was still a game-changer.  I'm unsure of the resistance, as the rationales offered haven't been about the functionality of laptop vs desktop, but seemingly "cultural". 

[ChrisL]

2 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

  I'm unsure of the resistance, as the rationales offered haven't been about the functionality of laptop vs desktop, but seemingly "cultural". 

The post starts with the question if SS is an outlier for wanting a laptop. Seemingly thinking that the kids today all use laptops.  

I find this completely opposite of my work experience in that all of the kids are back to a tower or docking station, keyboard & multiple monitors.  Or they are working from a phone.  I haven’t hardly seen people working in an office on just a laptop. 

 

[Square Wheels]

11 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Folks plug in a keyboard, mouse, and monitor(s) to a desktop. Not sure what the difference would be with a laptop   And a docking station just makes it MUCH easier.  Honestly,  even if I just took my laptop home once a year, it would be worth it over a desktop.  Of course, I WFH full time the past 18 months, so a laptop is even more essential, but when I was just WFH one or two days a week, a laptop was still a game-changer.  I'm unsure of the resistance, as the rationales offered haven't been about the functionality of laptop vs desktop, but seemingly "cultural". 

I have a cordless mouse and keyboard at work and at home.

I'll be getting a work laptop, and could swap out my desktop but will likely keep both.

The docking station we'd get has some USB plug, but it had two HDMI ports, so you can connect two monitors easily. 

[Razors Edge ★]

10 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

I have a cordless mouse and keyboard at work and at home.

I'll be getting a work laptop, and could swap out my desktop but will likely keep both.

The docking station we'd get has some USB plug, but it had two HDMI ports, so you can connect two monitors easily. 

Yeah - I've had USB wireless mice and keyboards for desktops and laptops for a decade or more.  My work laptop's mouse & keyboard share the same USB transmitter, so it's just one USB dongle-doodad plugged into a PC - laptop, desktop, or docking station.  I think my Dell laptop has an HDMI, a USB C, and a VGA monitor option, so god knows how many monitors it supports (I use one at home, two in the office), but could go three or four?  Again, functionally, it has ALL the capability of a desktop, but is also easily portable. I fail to see a downside - especially if I am not paying for it.

For a personal computer, where $$$ matter, clearly knowing how you want to use the PC matters.  I bring my laptop on longer vacations.  I bring it to the garage if working on my bike and using a youtube tutorial.  I bring it to the living room if doing some light browsing and not wanting to sit at the computer desk.

[maddmaxx ★]

1 hour ago, Razors Edge said:

We are discussing SS's work computer options, correct????

Yes.  Your example of a corporations largess however was worth commenting on.

[Razors Edge ★]

Just now, maddmaxx said:

Yes.  Your example of a corporations largess however was worth commenting on.

Largess????? Huh?  A company providing tools to their employees to get work done is "largess"??? Odd.

[maddmaxx ★]

19 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Largess????? Huh?  A company providing tools to their employees to get work done is "largess"??? Odd.

Shifting the conversation away from wasting money on tools to providing????  Will you be running for office next?

[MoseySusan]

7 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

Shifting the conversation away from wasting money on tools to providing????  Will you be running for office next?

Updating IT is “providing the tools.” 
Those IBM 100s and dot matrix printers aren’t up to the task anymore. 

[shootingstar]

I don't mind using a laptop for an hr. or so.  Not for everyday direct use. I would plug in and use a full keyboard so my hands are positioned in a healthy way.

There's enough studies and info. about challenges for ergonomics at work, school and home.

Musculoskeletal problems in frequent computer and internet users (nih.gov)

Search query via NIH site:  children laptop erogonomic - National Institutes of Health Search Results (nih.gov)

Ton of other studies over the years.  

I'm sorry...I recall attending a conference hr. long session from the Canadian Centre for Occupational Health and Safety....20 yrs. ago.

Generally speaking for instance, the width of keyword shouldn't be too narrow in length..especially for people who are bigger boned/wider in body frame. It would be like cycling with handlebar set that is too cramped for too long. And pile of other rules.   

I absolutely wouldn't want children tilting their head downward too extreme on iphone for very  long. It becomes a neck pain problem.

[Razors Edge ★]

1 hour ago, shootingstar said:

I don't mind using a laptop for an hr. or so.  Not for everyday direct use. I would plug in and use a full keyboard so my hands are positioned in a healthy way.

There's enough studies and info. about challenges for ergonomics at work, school and home.

Musculoskeletal problems in frequent computer and internet users (nih.gov)

Search query via NIH site:  children laptop erogonomic - National Institutes of Health Search Results (nih.gov)

Ton of other studies over the years.  

I'm sorry...I recall attending a conference hr. long session from the Canadian Centre for Occupational Health and Safety....20 yrs. ago.

Generally speaking for instance, the width of keyword shouldn't be too narrow in length..especially for people who are bigger boned/wider in body frame. It would be like cycling with handlebar set that is too cramped for too long. And pile of other rules.   

I absolutely wouldn't want children tilting their head downward too extreme on iphone for very  long. It becomes a neck pain problem.

So, if you came into work, and sat down at your desk, and your keyboard, mouse, and monitor(s) were all in their identical place - perfect ergonomics for you - you would, in fact, be computer agnostic??? IOW, the form factor - desktop, laptop, integrated CPU/monitor, etc. - would not matter?

[maddmaxx ★]

1 hour ago, MoseySusan said:

Updating IT is “providing the tools.” 
Those IBM 100s and dot matrix printers aren’t up to the task anymore. 

Context.  My original comment in this subsection was about his this post.

Our lifecycle for laptops (and, if we had them, desktops) would be 4 yrs.  That's a pretty long time, but we refresh them 25%/yr, so folks are fairly regularly getting a mostly modern laptop. We also have a built in pool of break-fix and change request laptops, so if you really want a new laptop - out of cycle - you just call helpdesk and request it.  Anyway, the OLD laptops (and monitors & keyboards)? Those are a royal PITA as we need to dispose of them - and often they just pile up in a store room until we have an agreement with Dell (or whoever) to take them off our hands and securely destroy/recycle them.  Likewise, out data center has a hard drive shredder for mass destruction of that stuff.  It's pretty amazing at how people vs orgs look at computers.  To the people, their personal stuff like a laptop is an asset.  To the orgs, I think is a tool that wears out and then is a problem to sort out.

And, until recently, we didn't even really try to "reclaim" the old laptops.  It was more just a security thing where that laptop was no longer "trusted" on the internal network when the new one was activated.  That rendered the old one "useless" (from a org perspective), but anyone could then wipe the drives and install Windows/Linux and be good to go with an "outdated" laptop.  Now, with no one in offices, when you get your new laptop, they include a FedEx label for the return of the old laptop.  I don't actually know if they ever care if it comes back or not, but they do have it in the "process flow".

I responded with:  That's just because unlike private owners you can just pass the cost along.  Business is great.

Perhaps you lost the context of the conversation.  It is indeed amazing at the differences between orgs and people when one can just pass along the costs of change.

[Razors Edge ★]

2 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

Context.  My original comment in this subsection was about his this post.

So if you ran a company and you received 1,000 4yr old laptops (or desktops) over a few months, what would YOU do with them?  I think most businesses will look forward to your suggestion.

[maddmaxx ★]

3 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

So if you ran a company and you received 1,000 4yr old laptops (or desktops) over a few months, what would YOU do with them?  I think most businesses will look forward to your suggestion.

There are recycle facilities dotted across the landscape.  That's my first suggestion.  Would you like my second?  You could scrub them and donate them to people who's children don't have any for use in remote learning.

[shootingstar]

41 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

So, if you came into work, and sat down at your desk, and your keyboard, mouse, and monitor(s) were all in their identical place - perfect ergonomics for you - you would, in fact, be computer agnostic??? IOW, the form factor - desktop, laptop, integrated CPU/monitor, etc. - would not matter?

As I said earlier in this thread, I was given laptop in a previous dept. Only used laptop directly less than 5 times over a 7 yr. period. Rest of the time, it was in docking station and used as a CPU while I used all other peripherals normal sized for desktop.

I won't be there over 60+% of time in future..so laptop would be secured..and assumed always safe.

Members of the public do walk into another dept. to use their services, just 15 ft. away around a wall. No door to block out our area. So the exposure is there...always. 

[maddmaxx ★]

Laptops that are constantly plugged in suffer battery failures more often.  That's one disadvantage to docking stations.

[maddmaxx ★]

Many work computers could just be "Thin Clients" or workstations.  School systems do this to cut costs.

[Razors Edge ★]

14 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

I won't be there over 60+% of time in future..so laptop would be secured..and assumed always safe.

Like - 3 days a week, working remote? How does that work with a desktop vs a laptop?  I clearly don't understand your work situation, but if I generally want and need my computer to get my work done, so not having it 60% of the time would be tough for me, but maybe not for you in your job.

[shootingstar]

18 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Like - 3 days a week, working remote? How does that work with a desktop vs a laptop?  I clearly don't understand your work situation, but if I generally want and need my computer to get my work done, so not having it 60% of the time would be tough for me, but maybe not for you in your job.

I will be working at home ..at my personal home desktop. As I am today...have been since covid. I remote into the office computer, so the laptop can't be stolen.

[Razors Edge ★]

20 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

There are recycle facilities dotted across the landscape.  That's my first suggestion.  Would you like my second?  You could scrub them and donate them to people who's children don't have any for use in remote learning.

Both cost money - hence the PITA portion of my post.  And, shockingly, part of the comment I wrote, "Those are a royal PITA as we need to dispose of them - and often they just pile up in a store room until we have an agreement with Dell (or whoever) to take them off our hands and securely destroy/recycle them."

One of the details we are working on for future purchases is that the laptops - now remotely deployed directly to users homes via FedEx - will include a return FedEx label that will go directly to the vendor/vendors secure destroy/recycle program.  That will be in addition to the vendor - Dell or HP usually - likely also doing the upfront imaging of the drives to the specific one we use with all the software loaded and shipped straight from the vendors facility rather than coming to our IT depot first.