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Drug side effects


Road Runner
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Having an online drug interaction site is important for taking care of your own health because not all doctors are cognizant of how drugs they proscribe interact with others, short term or long term.  My eye doctor had me try eye drops to slow the progression of glaucoma and I had to show him that those drops were not indicated when the patient was on a particular high blood pressure medication.  I almost had to stage a revolt to get him to change to another method.

That change worked very well but I'm not sure that i convinced him in the long run.  His specialty after all was eyes, not hearts.

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On 12/28/2021 at 9:52 PM, maddmaxx said:

Having an online drug interaction site is important for taking care of your own health because not all doctors are cognizant of how drugs they proscribe interact with others, short term or long term.  My eye doctor had me try eye drops to slow the progression of glaucoma and I had to show him that those drops were not indicated when the patient was on a particular high blood pressure medication.  I almost had to stage a revolt to get him to change to another method.

That change worked very well but I'm not sure that i convinced him in the long run.  His specialty after all was eyes, not hearts.

I had a similar problem with a urologist prescribing something that interacted with a heart drug.  You would Shirley think the pharmacy computer would screen these out, since it is probably too much to expect the pharmacist to keep all that in his or her head.  The cardiologist gave me a huge list of drugs to avoid.  It is aort of oot of control!

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42 minutes ago, Road Runner said:

Sometimes, TV ads seem to spend more time talking about the possible side effects of a drug than they do talking about its benefits.  :o

I always thought it would be cool if the side effect of a drug was that it could cause pain or numbness in your side.  :)

I don't watch enough tv but when I did, the ads seem to be greater on the American tv channels.

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1 hour ago, Road Runner said:

Sometimes, TV ads seem to spend more time talking about the possible side effects of a drug than they do talking about its benefits.

I believe the law is if they advertise the indication for the drug, they also have to advertise potential side effects. I don’t know how “rare” a side effect needs to be to make or miss the cut. Personally, I think they should ban all drug advertising, that way doctors aren’t pressure to give you the latest and greatest that you ask for, because you’ve seen it on TV.

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I had doctors insisting I had to take ace inhibitors and beta blockers for my heart when my blood pressure was already dangerously low. After two four day hospitalizations for low blood pressure they finally called my cardiologist and he told them to stop giving me those drugs because I can’t tolerate them.

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1 hour ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

That probably depends entirely upon what channel and program you are watching on both sides of the border.

Well, it would have to be one of the 3 national Canadian channels that I'm referring to. People are  aware of big Pharma and we  have some big firms (not many), especially in Metro Toronto. 

Canada is a much smaller market...so probably alot less different ads/less drugs to hit us up on...unless our advertising rates are alot lower.

I always thought it was pretty stupid to advertise prescription drugs on tv  to a lay audience. I'm sorry to be super blunt, but really it is the pharmacists (the university educated folks who compete super hard to get into the pharmacy programs which is now 5 years long,  not the  pill counters who are technicians) and doctors to interpret the effects and study/trial results. After hearing conversations within my family trained professionals. 

Not perfect all the time, but in the end,  their base knowledge is waaaay more than ours.

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4 hours ago, Road Runner said:

Sometimes, TV ads seem to spend more time talking about the possible side effects of a drug than they do talking about its benefits.  :o

I always thought it would be cool if the side effect of a drug was that it could cause pain or numbness in your side.  :D

I find it insane they they talk quickly to get all the possible side effects in during the commercial and all the while they're playing upbeat music and showing the those who use the meds mountain climbing, etc. with big smiles on their faces.

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5 hours ago, Longjohn said:

I had doctors insisting I had to take ace inhibitors and beta blockers for my heart when my blood pressure was already dangerously low. After two four day hospitalizations for low blood pressure they finally called my cardiologist and he told them to stop giving me those drugs because I can’t tolerate them.

Just remember:

50% of doctors finished in the bottom half of their med class.

The above meme is statistically incorrect given that some are weeded out along the way but it still represents a truth about our reliance on doctors being right all the time.

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On 12/29/2021 at 4:24 AM, maddmaxx said:

Just remember:

50% of doctors finished in the bottom half of their med class.

The above meme is statistically incorrect given that some are weeded out along the way but it still represents a truth about our reliance on doctors being right all the time.

There are also a lot of quacks which is totally inexcusable but still happens. :(

 

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4 hours ago, maddmaxx said:

Just remember:

50% of doctors finished in the bottom half of their med class.

The above meme is statistically incorrect given that some are weeded out along the way but it still represents a truth about our reliance on doctors being right all the time.

But honest, max I wouldn't want any of you here from this forum, at my bed side....maybe only as an advocate. Not to look up a list of drugs and studies and figure it out.  Possibly parrhead might notice something in terms of base conditon,  none of you could. Know the different classes of drugs and to do proper check on lists, etc. Even the most basic stuff.

None of us can cite the parts of the human anatomy to great level of detail, cut up cadavers..which by the way, in Canada, the university pharmacy programs, require the students to do this examination...it's part of mandatory courses, etc.

I do seek 2nd opinion after I see my in-person professionals...---I consult the professionals within my own family. B)

It is super competitive...just to qualify academically to even get into the Canadian pharmacy university programs...do you know why they take advanced calculus.?.it's to learn at the micro level drug-drug interactions.   Getting into medicine is another thing also.  Both siblings already had 92+% averages in high school and one is competing against 3 - 5x applicants vs. number of open places.  One does have to memorize alot....then there is an "art" of symptom diagnosis. 

Some patients aren't very communicative/explicit in their explanations.

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36 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

If folks could think, they could become doctors, Don! And clearly, most folks can't get INTO med school, let alone through it!

I'll tell that to my nephew who is in his lst yr. medicine right now.  He has a PhD in biochemistry (Harvard..yea, someone from my family) with research specialty related to proteins. I'm sure his wife,  the pediatrician will help do the memory test drills...

A resident intern ...must do 80 hrs. of work /wk. at a hospital for several months.  That is the norm up here in Canada. 

I'm not saying doctors are gods, but it's more important when one is facing a doctor , is to think on your feet (fairly quickly) and ask all the questions. Take every opportunity in that short window of opportunity.  Be specific with doctor (pharmacist, nurse), remember how certain conditions were like for you if they ask you to remember.  They can't read your mind.

Yea, sure I never hold back with questions to any doctor.

 

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13 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

I'll tell that to my nephew who is in his lst yr. medicine right now.  He has a PhD in biochemistry (Harvard..yea, someone from my family) with research specialty related to proteins. I'm sure his wife,  the pediatrician will help do the memory test drills...

A resident intern ...must do 80 hrs. of work /wk. at a hospital for several months.  That is the norm up here in Canada. 

I'm not saying doctors are gods, but it's more important when one is facing a doctor , is to think on your feet (fairly quickly) and ask all the questions. Take every opportunity in that short window of opportunity.  Be specific with doctor (pharmacist, nurse), remember how certain conditions were like for you if they ask you to remember.  They can't read your mind.

Yea, sure I never hold back with questions to any doctor.

 

But come on, SS! Half those doctors are akin to absolute MORANS!  We'd be better served if we just keep the "above average" doctors and then reassessed again and only kept the above average of that group, and then, wait a few days, and weed out the rest of those below average in the remaining crop.

If we do that enough, all the below average idiots will be cleared out and we'll have at least one qualified doctor!  Just common sense!

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2 hours ago, shootingstar said:

But honest, max I wouldn't want any of you here from this forum, at my bed side....maybe only as an advocate. Not to look up a list of drugs and studies and figure it out.  Possibly parrhead might notice something in terms of base conditon,  none of you could. Know the different classes of drugs and to do proper check on lists, etc. Even the most basic stuff.

None of us can cite the parts of the human anatomy to great level of detail, cut up cadavers..which by the way, in Canada, the university pharmacy programs, require the students to do this examination...it's part of mandatory courses, etc.

I do seek 2nd opinion after I see my in-person professionals...---I consult the professionals within my own family. B)

It is super competitive...just to qualify academically to even get into the Canadian pharmacy university programs...do you know why they take advanced calculus.?.it's to learn at the micro level drug-drug interactions.   Getting into medicine is another thing also.  Both siblings already had 92+% averages in high school and one is competing against 3 - 5x applicants vs. number of open places.  One does have to memorize alot....then there is an "art" of symptom diagnosis. 

Some patients aren't very communicative/explicit in their explanations.

That does not excuse one doctor from offering a drug that interacts badly with medicines that are clearly indicated on a patients profile.  If I have to defend myself from that sort of doctor then I have a valid opinion on the matter.  But yes, you're right, I've never cut up a cadaver.  

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1 hour ago, Razors Edge said:

The best disclaimer is always the, "If you are allergic to DrugXYZ, do not take DrugXYZ."  

I forgot about that one.  I see that all the time and I always think, "Duh!"  :D

They could really cover their asses if they said, "If you are likely to have an extremely adverse reaction to XYZ, such as heart attack or death, do not take XYZ."  :)

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2 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

But come on, SS! Half those doctors are akin to absolute MORANS!  We'd be better served if we just keep the "above average" doctors and then reassessed again and only kept the above average of that group, and then, wait a few days, and weed out the rest of those below average in the remaining crop.

If we do that enough, all the below average idiots will be cleared out and we'll have at least one qualified doctor!  Just common sense!

I guess so far, myself and family members have had decent experiences so far....a number of doctor specialists, not just family physicians.   How would we, as lay folks gauge "above average doctor"? Because we healed cleanly?  because they memorized all conditions/drugs well? because they were able to guess accurately mumbled/vague replies from patients?

My childhood family physician should have retired 10 yrs. before he left. He probably liked status of doctor with a Marcus Welby facade.

I mean a few years ago, here on this forum people were slagging teachers..where most of us haven't had to teach and discipline a bunch of kids/teens full-time for several years on required curriculum.

 

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hold our professionals accountable yes, but ask ourselves what we would do in their shoes, what we should have known if we had their training. 

Then there's the patient going to another professional for advice...which allowable,  can take time and sometimes almost impossible in more rural areas unless gets right contacts/network.

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30 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

I guess so far, myself and family members have had decent experiences so far....a number of doctor specialists, not just family physicians.   How would we, as lay folks gauge "above average doctor"? Because we healed cleanly?  because they memorized all conditions/drugs well? because they were able to guess accurately mumbled/vague replies from patients?

My childhood family physician should have retired 10 yrs. before he left. He probably liked status of doctor with a Marcus Welby facade.

I mean a few years ago, here on this forum people were slagging teachers..where most of us haven't had to teach and discipline a bunch of kids/teens full-time for several years on required curriculum.

 

If you surrender your care without any thought to someone else then you have no complaints coming when things don't go well.  There are several drug interaction web sites available.  Enter the names of the drugs and be presented with the interaction in tabulated form.  No memorizing necessary.  Reading about and  understanding your medical situation will yield a wealth of information that you can then discuss with your doctor, no mumbling necessary.  Doctors are not priests.  They do not work magic.  Understanding what they do is possible with just a little effort.  It's not like you have to know how to do an operation on yourself.

I've changed doctors in the past just to find one that was willing to discuss my situation with me from someplace other than from an unapproachable status.

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Most drugs now come with an information packet that explains the possible interactions and side effects and they are printed in a readable size print. I was prescribed flowmax and after reading the disclosures I held off on taking the drug until I talked to my eye doctor. Had I taken any before my eye surgery the results could have been way worse.

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40 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

If you surrender your care without any thought to someone else then you have no complaints coming when things don't go well.  There are several drug interaction web sites available.  Enter the names of the drugs and be presented with the interaction in tabulated form.  No memorizing necessary.  Reading about and  understanding your medical situation will yield a wealth of information that you can then discuss with your doctor, no mumbling necessary.  Doctors are not priests.  They do not work magic.  Understanding what they do is possible with just a little effort.  It's not like you have to know how to do an operation on yourself.

I've changed doctors in the past just to find one that was willing to discuss my situation with me from someplace other than from an unapproachable status.

Alot of patients don't know of/how to search drug interaction sites. I'm not defending the doctors, by the way. Already we have people who refuse to vax.

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8 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

Alot of patients don't know of/how to search drug interaction sites. I'm not defending the doctors, by the way. Already we have people who refuse to vax.

Perhaps these things should be part of a real world education system, similar to knowing how to manage money or drive better.

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On 12/29/2021 at 1:06 PM, maddmaxx said:

Perhaps these things should be part of a real world education system, similar to knowing how to manage money or drive better.

It sort of goes against common sense that a patient is responsible for their own record-keeping and therefore welfare in the healthcare system when you would expect it to be in the hands of professionals, but I guess being realistic you have to be.  And I guess it is really more of a team.

Owl go looking for a drug interaction app now!  brb!

ok, webmd had one but with a bigass disclaimer that it is snot medical advice, as you would expect.  My case said no interaction, but the second drug is definitely on a list of no nos from the cardiologist, but I think the problem is snot that the drugs themselves interact, but that they have opposing effects in the body.  So in my case the cardiologist did his job and caught it.  If I had been more on the ball I would have pulled up the chart and showed it to the urologist, which is what I did later.  Always a day late and dollar short. :(  Owl look for that document in my phone right now and put it in an appropriate album for future reference.

 

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2 hours ago, Philander Seabury said:

It sort of goes against common sense that a patient is responsible for their own record-keeping and therefore welfare in the healthcare system when you would expect it to be in the hands of professionals, but I guess being realistic you have to be.  And I guess it is really more of a team.

Owl go looking for a drug interaction app now!  brb!

ok, webmd had one but with a bigass disclaimer that it is snot medical advice, as you would expect.  My case said no interaction, but the second drug is definitely on a list of no nos from the cardiologist, but I think the problem is snot that the drugs themselves interact, but that they have opposing effects in the body.  So in my case the cardiologist did his job and caught it.  If I had been more on the ball I would have pulled up the chart and showed it to the urologist, which is what I did later.  Always a day late and dollar short. :(  Owl look for that document in my phone right now and put it in an appropriate album for future reference.

 

I have a pair like that .  Losartan adds potassium and Hydrochlorothiazide removes it.  They are often given together though as the mix works well.  In fact it's possible to get the two in one pill.  That mix controls my blood pressure very well.

My earlier complaint about the eye doctor's drops were that they contained a beta blocker which on top of my medication to lower blood pressure almost sent me to the ER.  I was in a situation like Longjohn with my pressure dipping dangerously low.  There are techniques that can be used to make those drops possible however.  Closing the eyes tightly for a period of time after putting the drop in prevents any leakage into the body through the tear ducts.  That was something else that I had to learn on my own instead of getting it from the doc.  Fortunately my eye pressures were lowered with an alternate laser procedure.  The laser work was something that another doctor was extremely skilled at.

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