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Anyone else here going to be impacted by the upcoming executive order, re. vaccinations & testing??


2Far
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Fully vaxxed or tested once per week.

Yeah, we're gonna have some real problems

  • Ornery, predominately unvaxxed work force
  • Testing logistics @ a dozen, rural worksites
  • Lack of available tests
  • PMs who can't even accurately document how much their crews worked each week.
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3 minutes ago, 2Far said:

Fully vaxxed or tested once per week.

Yeah, we're gonna have some real problems

  • Ornery, predominately unvaxxed work force
  • Testing logistics @ a dozen, rural worksites
  • Lack of available tests
  • PMs who can't even accurately document how much their crews worked each week.

Flight crews are not required to do either. 

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Everyone I know who got covid lately, including myself, were fully vaccinated including booster.

The argument of a pandemic of the unvaccinated no longer holds water.

Until testing is easily and readily available, it will be problematic.

And the vacillating guidance from the CDC only muddies the water.  Walmart, following the CDC 5 day guideline, now says it will only pay for 5 days of covid leave, forcing employees to come to work sick.

I see a huge black-market in fake tests coming soon, so people can pay $50 for a negative test that was never performed.

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2 minutes ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said:

Well, I guess nobody will be surprised, then, if the PM's suddenly documented that all their workers were either vaccinated or tested negative each week...  :whistle:

Yep.  People will go to great lengths to like about vaccination rather than sitting down for a quick needle.

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3 minutes ago, jsharrwick said:

Everyone I know who got covid lately, including myself, were fully vaccinated including booster.

His argument of a pandemic of the unvaccinated no longer holds water.

Until testing is easily and readily available, it will be problematic.

And the vacillating guidance from the CDC only muddies the water.  Walmart, following the CDC 5 day guideline, now says it will only pay for 5 days of covid leave, forcing employees to come to work sick.

I see a huge black-market in fake tests coming soon, so people can pay $50 for a negative test that was never performed.

Can't be that hard to fake a vaccine ticket either. 

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2 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

Yep.  People will go to great lengths to like about vaccination rather than sitting down for a quick needle.

Vaccination no longer matters as the new variant is infecting the vaccinated.  I made it through all the other variants without a hitch.  Very few of our Scouts got covid.  Now we are hearing reports of it left and right.  Family upon family of fully vaccinated people in my area are getting covid.  Vaccinated or not vaccinated, does not seem to matter and symptoms seems the same regardless of vaccination status.  Again, coming from a minute, infinitesimal samplings size, but this is my belief.

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1 minute ago, Wilbur said:

Can't be that hard to fake a vaccine ticket either. 

I would imagine you are right and that a large majority of the pro sports world would attest to as well.

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6 minutes ago, jsharrwick said:

Vaccination no longer matters as the new variant is infecting the vaccinated.  I made it through all the other variants without a hitch.  Very few of our Scouts got covid.  Now we are hearing reports of it left and right.  Family upon family of fully vaccinated people in my area are getting covid.  Vaccinated or not vaccinated, does not seem to matter and symptoms seems the same regardless of vaccination status.  Again, coming from a minute, infinitesimal samplings size, but this is my belief.

The hospitals are full of mostly unvaccinated.  The doctors and nurses can vouch for that (they're probably lying though) It does make a difference.

I suspect that in some cases though the vaccinated catch it because they treat vaccination as a silver bullet and begin to go to parties and gather in theaters unmasked because it's over.

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2 minutes ago, jsharrwick said:

Vaccination no longer matters as the new variant is infecting the vaccinated.  I made it through all the other variants without a hitch.  Very few of our Scouts got covid.  Now we are hearing reports of it left and right.  Family upon family of fully vaccinated people in my area are getting covid.  Vaccinated or not vaccinated, does not seem to matter and symptoms seems the same regardless of vaccination status.  Again, coming from a minute, infinitesimal samplings size, but this is my belief.

That is worrisome for many, my wife included.  I have a mortgage on the summer cottage.  I am in the process of adding life insurance to it.  You never know.. :( 

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From our "Policy" (clearly taken from somewhere):

If an employee is unable to produce one of these acceptable forms of proof of vaccination, despite attempts to do so (e.g., by trying to contact the vaccine administrator or state health department), the employee can provide a signed and dated statement attesting to their vaccination status (fully vaccinated or partially vaccinated); attesting that they have lost and are otherwise unable to produce one of the other forms of acceptable proof; and including the following language:

“I declare (or certify, verify, or state) that this statement about my vaccination status is true and accurate.  I understand that knowingly providing false information regarding my vaccination status on this form may subject me to criminal penalties.” 

An employee who attests to their vaccination status in this way should to the best of their recollection, include in their attestation the type of vaccine administered, the date(s) of administration, and the name of the health care professional(s) or clinic site(s) administering the vaccine.  

 

Yeah, we're going to get 75 letters, all with the same typos & dates & vaccine makers.

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1 minute ago, 2Far said:

From our "Policy" (clearly taken from somewhere):

If an employee is unable to produce one of these acceptable forms of proof of vaccination, despite attempts to do so (e.g., by trying to contact the vaccine administrator or state health department), the employee can provide a signed and dated statement attesting to their vaccination status (fully vaccinated or partially vaccinated); attesting that they have lost and are otherwise unable to produce one of the other forms of acceptable proof; and including the following language:

“I declare (or certify, verify, or state) that this statement about my vaccination status is true and accurate.  I understand that knowingly providing false information regarding my vaccination status on this form may subject me to criminal penalties.” 

An employee who attests to their vaccination status in this way should to the best of their recollection, include in their attestation the type of vaccine administered, the date(s) of administration, and the name of the health care professional(s) or clinic site(s) administering the vaccine.  

 

Yeah, we're going to get 75 letters, all with the same typos & dates & vaccine makers.

I think at least one football player tried that.

Oh, yes, he also ran out on his team because they were mean to him.

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4 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

The hospitals are full of mostly unvaccinated.  The doctors and nurses can vouch for that (they're probably lying though) It does make a difference.

The biggest risk from Covid seems to be underlying high risk conditions.   Here are the numbers for Dallas county.  Alp[ha and Delta are the big killers and 
https://www.dallascounty.org/departments/dchhs/2019-novel-coronavirus/daily-updates.php

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15 minutes ago, jsharrwick said:

The biggest risk from Covid seems to be underlying high risk conditions.   Here are the numbers for Dallas county.  Alp[ha and Delta are the big killers and 
https://www.dallascounty.org/departments/dchhs/2019-novel-coronavirus/daily-updates.php

Old news.  The Omacron patients are flooding the hospitals to capacity.  They just don't die as often.  Hospitals filled with patients like that haven't got time for others who need the space for other things.  I'd hate to die of a heart condition because someone couldn't be bothered to vaccinate.

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50 minutes ago, jsharrwick said:

Everyone I know who got covid lately, including myself, were fully vaccinated including booster.

The argument of a pandemic of the unvaccinated no longer holds water.

Until testing is easily and readily available, it will be problematic.

And the vacillating guidance from the CDC only muddies the water.  Walmart, following the CDC 5 day guideline, now says it will only pay for 5 days of covid leave, forcing employees to come to work sick.

I see a huge black-market in fake tests coming soon, so people can pay $50 for a negative test that was never performed.

I agree that the work requirements are being handled poorly.  Requiring tests of vaccinated workers once a week when there are not close to enough available tests is ridiculous.

I think it's still fair to say it's a hospitalization pandemic of the unvaccinated. Our governor complained last week that only 8% of Maryland's adults are unvaccinated but they occupy 76% of COVID hospital beds and represent 90% of deaths.  That means the unvaccinated are 36x more likely to be hospitalized for COVID and 103x more likely to die of COVID.

In my large, extended family, it's the unvaccinated getting hit with COVID.  Two cousins and their husbands, unvaccinated, caught COVID and one cousin and the other's husband were hospitalized, the husband needing a worrisome, very high rate of oxygen for 2-3 days before he began to recover.

My brother's BiL was finally talked into getting the shot and caught COVID a month later in December, but it was mild.  There may be some vaccinated relatives who caught it and knew it, but it was either asymptomatic or so mild that word of it didn't make to the rest of the family.

I don't think anyone else in my huge extended family - over 60 adult 1st and 2nd cousins plus some close in-laws - is unvaccinated: we had three die in 2020 and almost a fourth - my sister a hospital nurse - and that's really made almost everyone realize our family's genetics aren't going to stop COVID from whacking us.

 

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1 hour ago, jsharrwick said:

Everyone I know who got covid lately, including myself, were fully vaccinated including booster.
The argument of a pandemic of the unvaccinated no longer holds water.
Until testing is easily and readily available, it will be problematic.
And the vacillating guidance from the CDC only muddies the water.  Walmart, following the CDC 5 day guideline, now says it will only pay for 5 days of covid leave, forcing employees to come to work sick.
I see a huge black-market in fake tests coming soon, so people can pay $50 for a negative test that was never performed.

I struggle understanding how the difference in outcomes doesn't weigh strongly in favor of vaxxing and boosting vs any alternative.  COVID remains something that attacks anyone who comes in contact with the virus, but death by COVID is skewed way too negatively against the unvaxxed and the high risk folks.  It's a real nightmare in the unvaxxed AND high risk (comorbidity). 

IOW, vaxxing and the vaxxed population relieve a ton of the strain on the healthcare system.  

With omicron, we may get a huge break - ie existing vaxxed folks plus a milder strain of COVID infecting the unvaxxed folks (plus breakthrough cases) will result in a population where most folks have strong antibodies present for any future defense.

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3 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

I struggle understanding how the difference in outcomes doesn't weigh strongly in favor of vaxxing and boosting vs any alternative.  COVID remains something that attacks anyone who comes in contact with the virus, but death by COVID is skewed way too negatively against the unvaxxed and the high risk folks.  It's a real nightmare in the unvaxxed AND high risk (comorbidity). 

IOW, vaxxing and the vaxxed population relieve a ton of the strain on the healthcare system.  

With omicron, we may get a huge break - ie existing vaxxed folks plus a milder strain of COVID infecting the unvaxxed folks (plus breakthrough cases) will result in a population where most folks have strong antibodies present for any future defense.

I understand fully that the unvaccinated are at a much greater risk, but I see the high number of break through infections just adding fuel to the anti vaccination fire.  Seems very polarizing with words liked vaxxed and jab etc. 

I fully support the vaccine.  I got lax about hand washing and mask wearing, but I am doing more of both now, even thoug I am vaccinated and have had covid.

 

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28 minutes ago, MickinMD said:

I agree that the work requirements are being handled poorly.  Requiring tests of vaccinated workers once a week when there are not close to enough available tests is ridiculous.

I think it's still fair to say it's a hospitalization pandemic of the unvaccinated. Our governor complained last week that only 8% of Maryland's adults are unvaccinated but they occupy 76% of COVID hospital beds and represent 90% of deaths.  That means the unvaccinated are 36x more likely to be hospitalized for COVID and 103x more likely to die of COVID.

In my large, extended family, it's the unvaccinated getting hit with COVID.  Two cousins and their husbands, unvaccinated, caught COVID and one cousin and the other's husband were hospitalized, the husband needing a worrisome, very high rate of oxygen for 2-3 days before he began to recover.

My brother's BiL was finally talked into getting the shot and caught COVID a month later in December, but it was mild.  There may be some vaccinated relatives who caught it and knew it, but it was either asymptomatic or so mild that word of it didn't make to the rest of the family.

I don't think anyone else in my huge extended family - over 60 adult 1st and 2nd cousins plus some close in-laws - is unvaccinated: we had three die in 2020 and almost a fourth - my sister a hospital nurse - and that's really made almost everyone realize our family's genetics aren't going to stop COVID from whacking us.

 

To your first point you are making the assumption businesses are using the self test kits.  My firm, and I’m guessing many large firms, has an agreement with a lab and we have lab technicians come to us with equipment & test on site. We have results in about 15 minutes.

 For smaller exposures we send them to the clinic where we are in & out in minutes with results within hours. 

Yes smaller firms may rely on self tests but I doubt larger firms with lots of employees will. 

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1 hour ago, jsharrwick said:

Vaccination no longer matters as the new variant is infecting the vaccinated. 

85% of those hospitalized are unvaccinated

over 95% of the dead are unvaccinated

To the 1000+ who are dying daily, vaccines would have mattered to 950+ of them

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24 minutes ago, 12string said:

85% of those hospitalized are unvaccinated

over 95% of the dead are unvaccinated

To the 1000+ who are dying daily, vaccines would have mattered to 950+ of them

I understand the numbers.  As usual, I am not good at putting thoughts in my head on the screen as pixels.  Vaccination matters.  Vaccination works.  The fact that so many vaccinated people are getting covid fuels the argument that the vaccine is a hoax, which I cannot even comprehend.   Not sure how our country and maybe our world, got so screwed up and divided where something that is free and could save your life is somehow an us versus them argument.

My eldest son does not believe in the vaccine and spews forth with the facts about how small of a chance of dying he has.  He only sees what he wants to see.  He sent me a text about how he was visiting his girlfriend in another town and everyone in her family got covid, but he did not.  I had to remind him that he tested positive for Covid the week before Christmas.

 

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58 minutes ago, jsharrwick said:

I understand fully that the unvaccinated are at a much greater risk, but I see the high number of break through infections just adding fuel to the anti vaccination fire.  Seems very polarizing with words liked vaxxed and jab etc. 

I fully support the vaccine.  I got lax about hand washing and mask wearing, but I am doing more of both now, even thoug I am vaccinated and have had covid.

 

You were vaccinated and spent your time at home.  The unvaccinated are much more likely to spend their time in the hospital where they take up valuable medical resources that are needed by others.  It's really that simple.

That neglects what we don't know yet about the long term effects that may hit those who had covid and recovered later.  

Oh, by the way, the previous variants aren't dead yet and some still get them too.

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2 hours ago, 2Far said:

Fully vaxxed or tested once per week.

Yeah, we're gonna have some real problems

Then again this may change.  https://www.foley.com/en/insights/publications/2021/12/will-answers-come-2022-supreme-court-mandates

2 hours ago, jsharrwick said:

Vaccination no longer matters as the new variant is infecting the vaccinated. 

You can get infected with the virus and spread the virus after being 'fully' vaccinated.   I don't see how that will ever 'stop' the virus from spreading.  

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51 minutes ago, Bikeguy said:

Then again this may change.  https://www.foley.com/en/insights/publications/2021/12/will-answers-come-2022-supreme-court-mandates

You can get infected with the virus and spread the virus after being 'fully' vaccinated.   I don't see how that will ever 'stop' the virus from spreading.  

The vaccines don't eliminate the disease, they just lessen the severity.  They are intended to protect the healthcare system as much as they are the patients.  We will all get this in time. 

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2 hours ago, jsharrwick said:

I see the high number of break through infections just adding fuel to the anti vaccination fire.

People will twist a narrative to support their desires. But I think it’s safe to say your Covid symptoms were milder because you were vaxed, and I didn’t get it when my wife did because I had gotten my booster when she had not. Avoiding hospitalization or worse has always been the goal of the vaccine. It’s still doing that.

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1 hour ago, Bikeguy said:

ou can get infected with the virus and spread the virus after being 'fully' vaccinated.   I don't see how that will ever 'stop' the virus from spreading. 

You are less likely to carry the virus, and you carry it for much shorter times if you are vaccinated.  No one ever said we were going to stop it, the goal is to get it to a point where it's controllable, like other fatal diseases we've gotten under control

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4 hours ago, 2Far said:

Fully vaxxed or tested once per week.

I have no idea if this applies to my work place or not. We’re still mask-mandated by my employer, and to my knowledge mostly vaxed and boosted, so I actually don’t know how much it matters if we’d detect a few asymptomatic positive people? They’re pretty low risk transmitters in that setting. Certainly more risk after work at a bar or restaurant, but not at work.

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3 minutes ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

People will twist a narrative to support their desires. But I think it’s safe to say your Covid symptoms were milder because you were vaxed, and I didn’t get it when my wife did because I had gotten my booster when she had not. Avoiding hospitalization or worse has always been the goal of the vaccine. It’s still doing that.

A body with the vaccine is like a well prepared and well defended fort.  Troops in the armory, a way to identify the enemy, and generally weapons & tactics at the ready.  A non-vaxxed body is capable of creating and equipping the troops and training them to identify and defend the fort, but that process takes time.  So, when an attack comes, the prepared body can immediately get into the fight and start whittling down the enemy forces - usually to such a degree that the battle is over fast and decisively.  The unvaxxed body has to keep falling back deeper into the fort, and hope they can rally the troops for a final defense of the keep.  

Me? I'd rather have all my resources ready to go, so when that crazy coworker woman comes at me with her mouth full of virus, I can be infected with a breakthrough case of simply a runny nose or a headache.  Likewise, my local hospital system has one less crisis to deal with. And the $10,000 or $100,000 or $1,000,000 ER and ICU stay is avoided. And my wife still has a husband. And no unlucky person who falls and breaks their hip has to spend hours looking for an ER to admit her. But I am selfish like that :D

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On 1/6/2022 at 1:08 PM, jsharrwick said:

Vaccination no longer matters as the new variant is infecting the vaccinated. 

While true, unfortunately it plays right into the unvaccinated excuse making. Historically, they focus on the 3% 'exception' - more now with the Omicron variant - to justify their logic. A better focal point is who is dying when otherwise perfectly health and/or monopolizing hospital capacity effectively denying care to others.

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On 1/6/2022 at 5:04 PM, Razors Edge said:

 So, when an attack comes, the prepared body can immediately get into the fight and start whittling down the enemy forces - usually to such a degree that the battle is over fast and decisively.

My reaction to the vax shots supports this fully.

The first shot the reaction came about 24 hours after the shot and lasted about 30 hours

The second shot reaction came within 12 hours and was gone in about 16 hours. It was a more intense reaction, but over quickly.

I get the booster next month.

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