shootingstar Posted January 18, 2022 Share #1 Posted January 18, 2022 Sorry...to bring this up. I'm really glad my dearie made decision to give up his license ...without me saying anything. I was so accustomed even before meeting him, doing stuff without car lifts, etc. It was just him realizing he was only driving 1-3 times ...per year in the last 6 years. He used to drive extensively in various decades of life because of a 2nd property...farm outside of city and his job required site visits in Canada and meeting up/looking at equipment, etc. Will remote work may change that abit...not sure striking a multi-million $$ deal will do it. But maybe. How to know when it’s time for seniors to stop driving ANNA SHARRATT SPECIAL TO THE GLOBE AND MAIL PUBLISHED 12 HOURS AGO Tony Marshall knows he won’t be driving forever. The 80-year-old Halifax resident often drives to attend a local singing group and likes to meet up with friends. But he’s also aware of his family history of dementia and has noticed that he’s lost some of his sense of direction over the past two years and has become a bit absent-minded. He can’t just jump in the car and go any more. “I have to plan how to get there,” Mr. Marshall says. He uses his Toyota Corolla’s GPS to map out each route and prevent missing a turn. He says if cognitive issues creep in, he’ll get his wife to drive him or take a cab. “I will probably keep driving for two or three more years,” Mr. Marshall says. “I know what to expect. But I can live with it.” Driving is a lifeline for many retirees – a fundamental part of their lifestyle that allows them to maintain friendships, visit family, remain independent and participate in community activities. But sometimes cognitive, vision, hearing or mobility issues can creep in, making driving less satisfying and unsafe. At that point, a person’s driving skills need to be assessed by a professional, and difficult decisions are made around how much time – if any – they spend on the road. Just over a quarter (26 per cent) of Canadian drivers hope to keep their licences past age 85, according to a 2017 State Farm Canada survey. However, Transport Canada data shows more seniors die in traffic accidents than any other age group. It’s why each province tests seniors on their driving, usually beginning at age 80. These guidelines vary by province but usually include a written component and a vision test. For example, to renew a driver’s licence in Ontario, vision and written tests begin at age 80 and repeat every two years. Drivers also have to participate in a 45-minute group education session, although those have been waived during the pandemic. If the examiner has any concerns, a road test is recommended. Decisions around when someone should stop driving should be based on the individual, says Bill VanGorder, past chair and senior spokesperson of the Canadian Association for Retired Persons – Nova Scotia. “Permission to drive or not drive should be based on ability and capability – not age,” he says. Too often, he says, family members make decisions concerning an elderly family member’s driving fitness. They may be uncomfortable with the idea of their elderly parent driving, instead of determining whether the elderly person is an unsafe driver. “They will go to the family doctor and say: ‘Tell dad he can’t drive any more.’ But for people who live in rural Canada, losing a driver’s licence is the end of everything – they can’t get to the grocery store,” Mr. VanGorder says. Sometimes children of elderly parents bully them into giving up driving, says Samir Sinha, a geriatrician and director of Health Policy Research and co-chair of Toronto’s Ryerson University’s National Institute on Ageing. Tony Marshall often uses GPS navigation program for directions when driving due to family history of dementia.THE GLOBE AND MAIL ”Older people are by and large safe drivers,” Dr. Sinha says. “And older people can be devastated when their licence is taken away.” Rather than having a family member shut down driving, he recommends a thorough conversation with the person who is driving to determine their driving fitness and views around driving. The discussion might include addressing hearing issues with a hearing aid, tackling arthritis to allow individuals to perform safety checks, or treating age-related vision issues such as cataracts or macular degeneration. If the person feels these issues are getting in the way, they can decide to stop driving. “That way, you’re giving patients the choice,” Dr. Sinha says. Not all conditions warrant taking away a driver’s licence. For example, a diagnosis of dementia doesn’t automatically mean a person has to stop driving, according to the Canadian Medical Association. If a senior is suspected of having cognitive or physical issues that are impeding their driving, such as dementia, Dr. Sinha says they should have a driving assessment done by an occupational therapist. The professional can help to pinpoint exactly what challenges might affect their driving and make a recommendation. Dr. Sinha also suggests that seniors who have had a medical event such as a stroke forgo driving until they have been cleared to do so by a medical professional and have completed both written and road tests. For other medical events or surgeries, driving “holidays” can be a good idea during recovery, he says, and a great way to reassess one’s driving ability. Another approach is using the clinical frailty scale, an assessment of a senior’s strength, fitness and ability to perform daily tasks, to make a judgment call, Mr. VanGorder says. The tool can help determine how physically fit a person is to drive. Mr. VanGorder believes that a standardized graduated driving system, much like the ones currently applied to young drivers, would help seniors make decisions around driving. “This might not allow someone to drive at night – or on regular roads rather than four-lane highways,” he says. “But their licence will not be taken away.” Mr. Marshall plans to continue monitoring his memory and cognition with the help of his wife. “I’m trying to stay as active in the car as possible,” he says. He’s also ensuring he gets adequate sleep, exercises regularly and sees friends and family often to prevent isolation. “I can’t fix the problem of aging but I can certainly extend it,” he says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longjohn ★ Posted January 19, 2022 Share #2 Posted January 19, 2022 10 minutes ago, shootingstar said: data shows more seniors die in traffic accidents than any other age group. That data can be misleading, old people will die in the same accident that a younger person would survive. It also doesn’t consider who was at fault in the accident. If you are on anti-coagulant drugs you are likely to die from any accident. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingstar Posted January 19, 2022 Author Share #3 Posted January 19, 2022 The quote you gave LJ , is not from myself, it's from the article. Just letting others in forum know. We have to be willing to allow ourselves to be tested, if required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingstar Posted January 19, 2022 Author Share #4 Posted January 19, 2022 I know the person who did the research work, etc. & probably worked with her internal govn't lawyer to create the provincial legislative requirements and procedures for Ontario older drivers to be tested at 80 yrs. and up. She is a close friend of mine and have known her for 3 decades...and yes did work for the Ontario Ministry of Transportation, before early retirement. Yes, she does drive but also bicycles. I didn't know she was a key project person on this govn't program until she was nearly done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Wilbur ★ Posted January 19, 2022 Popular Post Share #5 Posted January 19, 2022 Sheeze! I think I will still be flying at 80! 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingstar Posted January 19, 2022 Author Share #6 Posted January 19, 2022 4 minutes ago, Wilbur said: Sheeze! I think I will still be flying at 80! You had mentioned that you have to get tested as a pilot..often? I can't remember now. As if that requirement is critical for myself even worth remembering such details. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR46 Posted January 19, 2022 Share #7 Posted January 19, 2022 12 minutes ago, Wilbur said: Sheeze! I think I will still be flying at 80! I will probably still be racing at 80......I can't speak for the Monkey 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted January 19, 2022 Share #8 Posted January 19, 2022 13 minutes ago, shootingstar said: You had mentioned that you have to get tested as a pilot..often? I can't remember now. As if that requirement is critical for myself even worth remembering such details. Medical every six months, simulator training and testing every six months. People wonder why I don't read novels more.. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingstar Posted January 19, 2022 Author Share #9 Posted January 19, 2022 9 minutes ago, BR46 said: I will probably still be racing at 80......I can't speak for the Monkey Hope to bicycle still if slower on bike paths which over 80% of those paths (if I really wanted could do 130 km. solely on connected MUPs in 1 day in this city. I've done 100 km. day trips in Toronto and VAncovuer) tend not to have much joggers/cyclists....in a city where everyone still depends heavily (sometimes unncessarily for short distances) on a car. But I get the heavy grocery trips for car use. For sure, I never worried about dearie up to his death, when he was cycling around daily which he loved. Over 80% of his bike trip routes, was on MUPs.....away from other errant drivers, drivers on cellphone, etc. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingstar Posted January 19, 2022 Author Share #10 Posted January 19, 2022 6 minutes ago, Wilbur said: Medical every six months, simulator training and testing every six months. People wonder why I don't read novels more.. So the medical frequency is at any age for pilot or after a certain age? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted January 19, 2022 Share #11 Posted January 19, 2022 Just now, shootingstar said: So the medical frequency is at any age for pilot or after a certain age? Annual until 60, then every six months. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealot Posted January 19, 2022 Share #12 Posted January 19, 2022 If I ever have to give up driving, I’m hoping it will be my choice, not someone’s directive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted January 19, 2022 Share #13 Posted January 19, 2022 13 hours ago, shootingstar said: Driving or eventually...not I'm gonna be good. Automated driving will be in full swing by the time I am thinking about letting go of the steering wheel. "Siri, take me to Costco." will be my most common request 3 minutes ago, Zealot said: If I ever have to give up driving, I’m hoping it will be my choice, not someone’s directive. Sadly, too many are past a point of rational choice by the time someone else steps in for them, and likely a decade or even more before a legal "directive" would do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattlecan ★ Posted January 19, 2022 Share #14 Posted January 19, 2022 11 hours ago, Wilbur said: Annual until 60, then every six months. For us surface bound types, it's every 3 years until 65 then annually. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealot Posted January 19, 2022 Share #15 Posted January 19, 2022 9 minutes ago, Razors Edge said: Sadly, too many are past a point of rational choice by the time someone else steps in for them, and likely a decade or even more before a legal "directive" would do it Its been my experience that every senior citizen I’ve personally known has driven well into their golden years (70s, 80s, even 90s) and given it up on their own realizing when they believed they needed to. And I hope to follow this example. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted January 19, 2022 Share #16 Posted January 19, 2022 6 minutes ago, Zealot said: Its been my experience that every senior citizen I’ve personally known has driven well into their golden years (70s, 80s, even 90s) and given it up on their own realizing when they believed they needed to. And I hope to follow this example. You can probably benefit from automated driving too soon. It will be nice when this worry of losing independence is moot WRT driving. Sure, it just moves to "safe in the home" or handicapped & mobility limited access in public spaces, but at least the driving one is shortly a thing in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealot Posted January 19, 2022 Share #17 Posted January 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, Razors Edge said: You can probably benefit from automated driving too soon. It will be nice when this worry of losing independence is moot WRT driving. Sure, it just moves to "safe in the home" or handicapped & mobility limited access in public spaces, but at least the driving one is shortly a thing in the past. I do not plan on participating in automated driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted January 19, 2022 Share #18 Posted January 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, Zealot said: I do not plan on participating in automated driving. If it meant not driving vs being driven (via autopilot type), you'd opt out of that??? Even after what the article mentions about the loss of independence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsnip Totin Jack ★ Posted January 19, 2022 Share #19 Posted January 19, 2022 Mom realized that she needed to stop driving when she was hitting the light poles in the Walmart parking lot while parking. She also rear-ended someone on I-66 once. That was the final straw. She does have macular degeneration. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted January 19, 2022 Share #20 Posted January 19, 2022 7 minutes ago, Old No. 7 said: Mom realized that she needed to stop driving when she was hitting the light poles in the Walmart parking lot while parking. She also rear-ended someone on I-66 once. That was the final straw. She does have macular degeneration. That is also why mine stopped. No accidents but macular degeneration is a really good reason. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted January 19, 2022 Share #21 Posted January 19, 2022 13 hours ago, Longjohn said: That data can be misleading, old people will die in the same accident that a younger person would survive. It also doesn’t consider who was at fault in the accident. If you are on anti-coagulant drugs you are likely to die from any accident. Very true. I'm sure there is data if someone did a bit of a deep dive, but those high level stats are usually just too broad to be of true value alone. On the flip side, it is also likely, though, that most older folks have lower annual mileage - ie no commutes or driving the kids all over - so their rate may be worse than it seems. Add in "fault" and it becomes a different focus for discussion as well - since I've luckily avoided far more accidents than I've had, and I didn't stop too often to calculate old vs young driver almost wrecking me. I do remember coming home after a blizzard on I-81 in TN or SW VA, and the interstate was a SINGLE well plowed lane but with 3+ feet of snow to each side. As all the traffic slowed to a stop, I looked in my rear view mirror and noticed a car behind NOT slowing to a stop. I reacted by turning towards the snow bank and trying to get as far right out of the way as possible. BOOM - nailed in the back driver side and driven into the snow bank. The engine compartment completely filled with snow(!) and the car stalled. Anyway, cop gets there shortly after, and is talking to the driver who hit us. "I didn't even see them" was his excuse. He was older. Conditions were clear, the road was straight, and there were a dozen plus cars stopped on the highway ahead of us. This was pre-cell phones being common (1994/5), so other than futzing with the radio or heater, not a lot of distractions. He should not have been driving. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickinMD ★ Posted January 19, 2022 Share #22 Posted January 19, 2022 My cousin's husband was approaching 90 and began to have occasional moments where he mentally zoned-out and didn't know what he was doing. Otherwise he's alert and lucid. My cousin forced him to give up driving. A couple years later, macular degeneration became serious enough that she gave up driving as well - fortunately they have a retired daughter and semi-retired son who'll do everything for them. The husband, though, doesn't want to give up their car because he says it makes it look like someone's home so they won't get robbed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealot Posted January 19, 2022 Share #23 Posted January 19, 2022 41 minutes ago, Razors Edge said: If it meant not driving vs being driven (via autopilot type), you'd opt out of that??? Even after what the article mentions about the loss of independence? Not concerned by the article. Nor does your postulation consist of the only options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizeye Posted January 19, 2022 Share #24 Posted January 19, 2022 You obviously haven't been to Florida. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted January 19, 2022 Share #25 Posted January 19, 2022 11 minutes ago, Zealot said: Not concerned by the article. Nor does your postulation consist of the only options. I created a multiple choice poll! I realize it ain't an A or B sort of thing. But it - an automated car - certainly is a rapidly approaching and very viable option. Hopefully you'd choose it as a possiblility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealot Posted January 19, 2022 Share #26 Posted January 19, 2022 1 minute ago, Razors Edge said: I created a multiple choice poll! I realize it ain't an A or B sort of thing. But it - an automated car - certainly is a rapidly approaching and very viable option. Hopefully you'd choose it as a possiblility. No, I do not believe I would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted January 19, 2022 Share #27 Posted January 19, 2022 1 minute ago, Zealot said: No, I do not believe I would. Dismissed out of hand, with reservations, or based on a some deeper insight? I get the "not today, I wouldn't" sort of thing. But considering a need in the future - like 5 or 10 years from now - it seems a bit too early to write off the idea of letting a car do the driving. Are you just thinking about 2022? Or are you also tossing in the belief that in 2030 or so, you wouldn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealot Posted January 19, 2022 Share #28 Posted January 19, 2022 6 minutes ago, Razors Edge said: Dismissed out of hand, with reservations, or based on a some deeper insight? I get the "not today, I wouldn't" sort of thing. But considering a need in the future - like 5 or 10 years from now - it seems a bit too early to write off the idea of letting a car do the driving. Are you just thinking about 2022? Or are you also tossing in the belief that in 2030 or so, you wouldn't? There are people from the previous generation who have never owned or driven a car. There are people in our generation who’ve never flown. We all have our limits. We all make our choices. And life goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted January 19, 2022 Share #29 Posted January 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, Zealot said: There are people from the previous generation who have never owned or driven a car. There are people in our generation who’ve never flown. We all have our limits. We all make our choices. And life goes on. I encourage you to go take a spin in some of these new cars. Really - from the "mundane" like an auto park feature in many new cars, or calling a Tesla from across the parking lot to come get you, or the almost fully automated cruising of a Tesla or Caddy or other mainstream vehicle - EV or not. It's coming (is going on around you already), and it's not too scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealot Posted January 19, 2022 Share #30 Posted January 19, 2022 Just now, Razors Edge said: I encourage you to go take a spin in some of these new cars. Really - from the "mundane" like an auto park feature in many new cars, or calling a Tesla from across the parking lot to come get you, or the almost fully automated cruising of a Tesla or Caddy or other mainstream vehicle - EV or not. It's coming (is going on around you already), and it's not too scary. No thank you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted January 19, 2022 Share #31 Posted January 19, 2022 1 minute ago, Zealot said: No thank you. Come on! See it as an adventure! Like riding a roller coaster, but on the road! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealot Posted January 19, 2022 Share #32 Posted January 19, 2022 1 minute ago, Razors Edge said: Come on! See it as an adventure! Like riding a roller coaster, but on the road! Ever put a loaded gun to your head? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted January 19, 2022 Share #33 Posted January 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, Zealot said: Ever put a loaded gun to your head? No, but I've ridden on dozens of roller coasters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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