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Kleptocapture


maddmaxx
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9 minutes ago, donkpow said:

What's an oligarch take home now days? I figure get in, get out before the regime change, make a killing.

Enough to own one of these and not even feel the pinch.

The yacht 'Graceful' of Russian President Vladimir Putin is moored at the port of Sochi, Russia, 13 July 2015.

The yacht Graceful.  One of Vlad's toys.

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I am not sure how I feel about this.  While I realize that the Russian oligarchy almost certainly owes it's existence to ill-gotten gains, just taking from private citizens for their government's actions seems wrong.  "Well, we don't like your leader and what he is doing, but we are gonna take your boat, plane, and house anyway."   Seems like illegal search and seizure to me.  Are all assets of citizens of foreign nations considered assets of that foreign nation, and are thus subject to confiscation?

I fully understand that they are trying to leverage the government in any way they can, but I don't see this hurting Putin's plans.

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26 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

I am not sure how I feel about this.  While I realize that the Russian oligarchy almost certainly owes it's existence to ill-gotten gains, just taking from private citizens for their government's actions seems wrong.  "Well, we don't like your leader and what he is doing, but we are gonna take your boat, plane, and house anyway."   Seems like illegal search and seizure to me.  Are all assets of citizens of foreign nations considered assets of that foreign nation, and are thus subject to confiscation?

I fully understand that they are trying to leverage the government in any way they can, but I don't see this hurting Putin's plans.

They are if you can take them and keep them...........just like a foreign country is yours if you can take it and keep it.  The Russian Oligarchs are the one's in Russia most likely to remove Putin from the equation.

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29 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

I am not sure how I feel about this.  While I realize that the Russian oligarchy almost certainly owes it's existence to ill-gotten gains, just taking from private citizens for their government's actions seems wrong.  "Well, we don't like your leader and what he is doing, but we are gonna take your boat, plane, and house anyway."   Seems like illegal search and seizure to me.  Are all assets of citizens of foreign nations considered assets of that foreign nation, and are thus subject to confiscation?

I fully understand that they are trying to leverage the government in any way they can, but I don't see this hurting Putin's plans.

To some extent, you have to ask yourself - are these guys criminals or not.  Are they akin to the various drug lords - El Chapo or Pablo Escobar - where we have the right (and duty) to shut them down wherever they are?  If so, what changed a week ago and why were they running around freely prior to that?  If they're not criminals, is it more a seize and hold until hostilities end sort of thing?  More an impound than a seizure.

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5 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

The Russian Oligarchs are the one's in Russia most likely to remove Putin from the equation.

I think the military is far more likely to remove Putin, although maybe at a rich guy's behest.  Fingers crossed that the military is going to stage an assassination attempt at some point.

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3 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

If they're not criminals, is it more a seize and hold until hostilities end sort of thing?  More an impound than a seizure.

For most EU countries it is seizure and not forfeiture.  There are investigation started into the source of gains in some EU countries that could easily lead to forfeitures.  Some of these countries have decided that they can't just turn their backs on some of this activity anymore.

 

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Just now, Kzoo said:

For most EU countries it is seizure and not forfeiture.  There are investigation started into the source of gains in some EU countries that could easily lead to forfeitures.  Some of these countries have decided that they can't just turn their backs on some of this activity anymore.

 

So long as it doesn't have too large an effect on oil and the stock market.

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4 minutes ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

I think during war, yes, they can be. Pretty long history of it happening.

We may not be shooting, but I'd estimate we are at war with Russia at this time............without bothering with a declaration of course.  Have any wars been declared since WWII?  I think not.

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1 hour ago, maddmaxx said:

So long as it doesn't have too large an effect on oil and the stock market.

It’s a closed World economic system. We’re going to try to ruin our enemy without making things too intolerable for us or our allies, else they’ll lose their resolve to keep the pressure on Russia. 

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Just now, Prophet Zacharia said:

It’s a closed World economic system. We’re going to try to ruin our enemy without making things too intolerable for us or our allies, else they’ll lose their resolve to keep the pressure on Russia. 

Defines how serious we are.

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29 minutes ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

It’s a closed World economic system. We’re going to try to ruin our enemy without making things too intolerable for us or our allies, else they’ll lose their resolve to keep the pressure on Russia. 

Yep - they were discussing getting OPEC to start producing more to compensate (which they would naturally seem to do at $100+/barrel), but Americans, Canadians, and likely Euros were up in arms over $3/gal gas.  They would go apeshit over $5/gal gas.  

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36 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

We may not be shooting, but I'd estimate we are at war with Russia at this time............without bothering with a declaration of course.  Have any wars been declared since WWII?  I think not.

I think peace is generally declared way more often, by at least one of the parties.  Russia is helping secure the peace, according to them, because securing the peace by breaking it and saying that it isn't a war is way better.  

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36 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

Defines how serious we are.

Well, we are serious about it, about as serious as we can be without an open declaration of war.  At least that is how I see it.

Btw, I don't know that I have ever seen the world so united, at least in spirit, as it is right now against Russia.  How all this manifests itself may be another thing entirely, but everyone but Belarus and China want Putin dead and getting the Mussolini treatment.

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On 3/2/2022 at 6:49 PM, maddmaxx said:

A new US program to go after Russian Oligarchs.

 

When are they going to go after the American Oligarchs - the one's that pay zero taxes, but build $30M mansions and $100M yachts in hideaways like Monaco, paid for from out their too-small-to-tax incomes?

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I was surprised that Germany didn’t reconsider shuttering it’s last nuclear facilities.

Quote

Germany on Tuesday poured cold water on extending the life-span of its nuclear plants to help cut its reliance on Russian gas, saying it needed instead to build up alternative energy sources at "Tesla speed".

Economy Minister Robert Habeck said the country's first liquefied natural gas (LNG) terminal, announced last weekend, should be ready within two years.

And is liquid natural gas really an “alternative energy” source? Ok, it’s not Russian….

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3 hours ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

I was surprised that Germany didn’t reconsider shuttering it’s last nuclear facilities.

And is liquid natural gas really an “alternative energy” source? Ok, it’s not Russian….

"Tesla speed", in Germany, is not very quick.  It took quite a bit of time and hoops for Tesla to finally (last week?) get approval to open their plant in Germany.

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