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The Math Doesn’t Add Up?


ChrisL
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1 hour ago, ChrisL said:

So my brother had 3 cars and recently pared down to one.  His wife works from home (always has even before covid) and doesn’t like driving so it made sense to them.  The current car is a nice Cadillac SUV.

So yesterday he calls me all excited that he bought a used car, 2011 Honda Accord.  It gets way better fuel economy than the Caddy.  Oh so you traded in the Caddy?  No we still have it.

So instead of paying $2 more a gallon for gas you took on another car payment & insurance to save fuel costs?  Uh yeah…

Cool, well have fun with that car.. 🤦🏽‍♂️

It only seems to make sense if the wife sometimes feels stranded without a car always available to her.

I'm retired but would feel trapped without a car.  When I had to wait several hours for my BiL to finish a medical treatment and for him and my sister to pick me up and take me to get a replacement for the dead battery in my car, I didn't need to go anywhere but felt a little anxious all day!

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2 minutes ago, MickinMD said:

It only seems to make sense if the wife sometimes feels stranded without a car always available to her.

I'm retired but would feel trapped without a car.  When I had to wait several hours for my BiL to finish a medical treatment and for him and my sister to pick me up and take me to get a replacement for the dead battery in my car, I didn't need to go anywhere but felt a little anxious all day!

Uber is always an option.  I used them often pre covid when I was traveling for work.  

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2 hours ago, ChrisL said:

So my brother had 3 cars and recently pared down to one.

Probably 3-2 = 1 made less sense than 3-1=2?  

I dropped one bike (4-1=3), but would not be happy if I dropped 2 even though I could justify it in my head by comparing mileage.  But then, when I want the beater, I wouldn't have it and I'd be pissed and think I should pick up another beater? 

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1 hour ago, Razors Edge said:

Probably 3-2 = 1 made less sense than 3-1=2?  

I dropped one bike (4-1=3), but would not be happy if I dropped 2 even though I could justify it in my head by comparing mileage.  But then, when I want the beater, I wouldn't have it and I'd be pissed and think I should pick up another beater? 

Yeah it’s his money so none of my business on how he spends it.  2 cars for two drivers does make some sense.  But It was just the reasoning he gave that struck me as odd.  

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4 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

Yeah it’s his money so none of my business on how he spends it.  2 cars for two drivers does make some sense.  But It was just the reasoning he gave that struck me as odd.  

Was trying not to admit he made a mistake selling two cars!  He knew you'd give him shit, and he hoped he might sneak a stupid reason past you?  

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Sometimes it’s hard to figure out what’s right. Our intention was to sell the pickup before we moved, but time ran out and I’m glad we had it for moving the freezer and to haul lumber for projects once we got here! 
I still think a Mazda 3 would be a better commuting option than the CX5, but the 5 has great utility, too. I’m leaning toward getting a hitch on the CX5 and a small utility trailer then selling the pickup. 

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1 hour ago, Razors Edge said:

Was trying not to admit he made a mistake selling two cars!  He knew you'd give him shit, and he hoped he might sneak a stupid reason past you?  

Probably.  I still give him hell when he bought a sweet Giant Trance to upgrade from his Marin Hawk Hill.  OK the Hawk Hill is kinda entry level so whatever.  He then goes to get tires for another bike and buys a third trail bike!?!?  Dude really that’s the exact same type of bike as the Trance?  Uh well yeah the Trance doesn’t fit me that well and I like how this one fits.  Then change the stem, agh whatever your money have 3 trail bikes.

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6 hours ago, BuffJim said:

Last time gas prices spiked, people were buying Smart Cars  @Parr8hed may have to lighten his loads  

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I'll keep my Prius.   It is LARGE compared to a Smart car.  (which are not sold here anymore)  I get better gas mileage, it can carry a LOT more stuff, and 4 people can sit in the Prius (5 if you are friendly) 

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1 hour ago, groupw said:

Sometimes it’s hard to figure out what’s right. Our intention was to sell the pickup before we moved, but time ran out and I’m glad we had it for moving the freezer and to haul lumber for projects once we got here! 
I still think a Mazda 3 would be a better commuting option than the CX5, but the 5 has great utility, too. I’m leaning toward getting a hitch on the CX5 and a small utility trailer then selling the pickup. 

E-trailer.com. I installed one on our 2017 CX-5. 

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1 hour ago, groupw said:

I’m leaning toward getting a hitch on the CX5 and a small utility trailer then selling the pickup. 

I did this with my Toyota Sienna and am very happy with it. Can leave the trailer loaded if you don't feel like like unloading, no worries about banging up a nice truck, and truck prices have gone insane.

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1 hour ago, groupw said:

I’m leaning toward getting a hitch on the CX5 and a small utility trailer then selling the pickup. 

U-Haul rents trailer for local moves.   I use them now if the delivery fee for stuff is too much.

I purchased a cargo trailer and used that for 2+ years and 3000 miles.  Trips to buy stuff too big to fit into the Subaru, and then to move to our new home. 

I sold the trailer and now I'll use a U-Haul trailer if needed.    

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17 minutes ago, Old No. 7 said:

E-trailer.com. I installed one on our 2017 CX-5. 

That's what I used for my 2" receiver hitch on the Subaru. I installed it and the wiring which just plugged into a Subaru connection, buried in the back of the car. 

I watched the installation videos on etrailer.com before I purchased the receiver hitch.   The installation on a Subaru was easy.

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This is the whole reason I still have my f150.  It doesn't make sense for me to trade it in strictly to get better mpg.  It is paid for.  It runs great.  I know that I have kept up with the maintenance.  It's comfortable to drive. Chicks dig trucks.  

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18 hours ago, ChrisL said:

So my brother had 3 cars and recently pared down to one.  His wife works from home (always has even before covid) and doesn’t like driving so it made sense to them.  The current car is a nice Cadillac SUV.

So yesterday he calls me all excited that he bought a used car, 2011 Honda Accord.  It gets way better fuel economy than the Caddy.  Oh so you traded in the Caddy?  No we still have it.

So instead of paying $2 more a gallon for gas you took on another car payment & insurance to save fuel costs?  Uh yeah…

Cool, well have fun with that car.. 🤦🏽‍♂️

Should have bought a motorcycle....better gas mileage and a lot more fun to drive. 

Just my opinion 

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2 hours ago, BR46 said:

Should have bought a motorcycle....better gas mileage and a lot more fun to drive. 

Just my opinion 

I’ve been considering that. Just having one vehicle and it is 14 years old I could end up stranded if I have car trouble. I have always had lots of vehicles and I probably would have kept my wife’s Oddesey but my son needed a vehicle so I gave it to him.

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3 hours ago, BR46 said:

Should have bought a motorcycle....better gas mileage and a lot more fun to drive. 

Just my opinion 

He actually rode for years but he sold his last street bike about 20 years ago and stopped riding dirt bikes some years back.   He had too many close calls on SoCal roads & freeways to ride on the roads.  

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15 hours ago, Bikeguy said:

I'll keep my Prius.   It is LARGE compared to a Smart car.  (which are not sold here anymore)  I get better gas mileage, it can carry a LOT more stuff, and 4 people can sit in the Prius (5 if you are friendly) 

Yep - the time to get a full efficient vehicle was before everyone wanted a full efficient vehicle :D

Seems, folks are looking again, so, if you're in a bidding war or paying over MSRP, that rapidly negates any or all savings at the pump. It takes a while to recoup paying $1,000 or more too much for a new vehicle. $15k more for an EV would REALLY take a while - 300+ fill-ups?

Americans looking to offset surging gasoline prices with a more fuel-thrifty vehicle aren’t likely to find much on the car lot today.

The sharp rise in fuel costs, driven in large part by the war in Ukraine and related disruptions, is delivering another shock to the car business and triggering renewed focus on fuel economy after a multiyear boom in sport-utility vehicle and pickup truck sales. It also comes as new- and used-car inventory on dealership lots is at historic lows, leaving buyers with slim pickings for those looking to make a switch, according to dealers, executives and analysts.

Average gas prices in the U.S. hit $4.33 Saturday after recently breaking a record set in July 2008, according to AAA. A U.S. ban on Russian oil imports, revealed Tuesday, is poised to drive fuel costs higher in the near-term.

While still early, buyers are already showing more interest in gas-sipping models, including hybrids and electric vehicles, dealers and analysts say.

Bret Biornstad, a 62-year-old teacher living in Portland, Ore., said rising gas prices have pushed him to consider replacing the Kia Rio sedan he bought just a year ago with a fully electric vehicle.

“With the gas prices and the invasion of Ukraine, it was kind of like, ‘I’m going to really seriously look into this,’” Mr. Biornstad said.

Within the past decade, the car business has moved away from the small cars and sedans that have historically been the go-to for better fuel-economy and focused on bigger and more-lucrative trucks and SUVs during an era of low gasoline prices.

Buyers, too, have gravitated to larger, more fuel-thirsty models, leading many auto makers to discontinue some of their most fuel-efficient offerings in the U.S.—models such as the Ford Fiesta, Honda Fit and Toyota Yaris.

Nearly 78% of all vehicles sold last year were SUVs and trucks, a stark reversal from a decade ago when those types of vehicles accounted for about 55% of total U.S. industry sales, according to data analytics firm Wards Intelligence.

Auto executives are bullish on boosting sales of EVs, but the selection on dealership lots is still limited.

Many models, including those sold by Tesla Inc. TSLA -1.54% and Ford Motor Co. , have long wait times that stretch out for several months and carry heftier price tags—selling for nearly $15,000 more than the average price paid for all vehicles in February, according to data compiled by car-shopping firm Edmunds.com.

“Are the dealers ready? Yes. We are excited. We’re all in on EVs,” said Mike Stanton, president of the National Automobile Dealers Association, at a gathering of dealers in Las Vegas over the weekend. “We just don’t have the product right now.”

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I drove past the Ford dealership the other day and remembered last year when they didn’t have any vehicles on their lot because of supply chain problems. Now their lot is full of new pick up trucks. They might be ready to deal on these soon because most of the people buying pickups don’t need them. They just think they do. I burned up over $100 worth of gas over the last couple days. 

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People locally are all blabbing about buying a second car for the gas savings.  You can buy a lot of gas for the cost of another vehicle so their truck can sit.  It makes zero sense to me.  Worried about gas costs?  Take the bus.  :D  You get exercise walking to the stop too.  Even better to ride a bike.  

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6 hours ago, Parr8hed said:

This is the whole reason I still have my f150.  It doesn't make sense for me to trade it in strictly to get better mpg.  It is paid for.  It runs great.  I know that I have kept up with the maintenance.

Yeah... you may want to keep the F150 for a long time.  Replacing it would VERY expansive.   

We are keeping our 3 cars.  They are all paid for, and I keep up on the maintenance.   

WoBG just loves her 1997 Prelude.  Soon it could be come a rare classic worth 2 or 3 times what we paid for it new.  (or not) :scratchhead: 

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2 hours ago, ChrisL said:

He’s financing both.

About 6 months ago, I was talking to my grandson (who is 30).  He was telling me he was going to buy a SUV.   I gave him my unsolicited advice..   Your Audi is paid for, it is in great shape.  It has AWD and that probably is good thing. (he lives in WI)   Keep the car and save your money.  Save enough to pay for any repairs and keep saving.  Save for the next car and pay cash. 

 Did he listen?   Of course not.  :(   About 4 months ago he when and purchased a late model GMC Denali.    I'd guess he blew $60K.  He now has payments.    Now he uses a LOT more gas, and the insurance has to be way more too.  

image.jpeg.0434698eb78d97419418604eb666d38e.jpeg

  So much for trying to teach him to always pay yourself first. 

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56 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

People locally are all blabbing about buying a second car for the gas savings.  You can buy a lot of gas for the cost of another vehicle so their truck can sit.  It makes zero sense to me.  Worried about gas costs?  Take the bus.  :D  You get exercise walking to the stop too.  Even better to ride a bike.  

I was just talking to him this morning and that’s pretty much what he did.  “Man I was filling the tank every week…”.  I didn't say anything, it’s already a done deal at this point.

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1 hour ago, Razors Edge said:

Yep - the time to get a full efficient vehicle was before everyone wanted a full efficient vehicle :D

That's exactly why I purchased the 2016 Prius.   I just 'knew' gas would not stay cheap forever.   Then again... I never expected the price to rise so fast.   

Getting 60 mpg in the warm months is a nice thing.   48 mpg in the winter isn't too bad either.   Yeah keeping the car and the engine warm reduces the mpg. When it's cold, I can turn off the heater stopped at a stop light, and the gas engine will turn off.

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4 minutes ago, az_cyclist said:

Does he need the SUV, for trips?  The Accord is a great car, but not the best option if you have 4 adults and travelling for a vacation.

I think we already established he doesn’t make the greatest financial decisions.  Does he need the Caddy SUV, no his and his wife’s kids are grown & out of the house.  They have no intentions of unloading the SUV, just “saving” money on gas with the Honda.

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3 hours ago, ChrisL said:

He actually rode for years but he sold his last street bike about 20 years ago and stopped riding dirt bikes some years back.   He had too many close calls on SoCal roads & freeways to ride on the roads.  

I feel safer on the race track than any public roads 

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Just now, BR46 said:

I feel safer on the race track than any public roads 

That’s why he switched to dirt bikes but he sold them off a few years back.   He used to ride with his sons but they are too busy now.  

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8 minutes ago, BR46 said:

I feel safer on the race track than any public roads 

I worry that you are actually safer on the race track - racing like mad but with "skilled" maniacs - than on public roads - riding reasonably, but with unskilled and often distracted and enraged "maniacs". :(

Anyone actually know what the death & injury rates are for motorcycle racing vs public roads? Or for auto racing?  It seems a big deal when someone like Earnhardt or Senna die while racing, but comparatively, even though it seems rare, is it also so many fewer miles that it is more dangerous? 

Generally, you'd have to think "pro" or "skilled" drivers are a safer bet, but we also know racing is done at or near the margins of maximum risk, whereas we hope, driving on public roads is done at 50% or with significantly greater margin for error. 

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1 minute ago, Razors Edge said:

I worry that you are actually safer on the race track - racing like mad but with "skilled" maniacs - than on public roads - riding reasonably, but with unskilled and often distracted and enraged "maniacs". :(

Anyone actually know what the death & injury rates are for motorcycle racing vs public roads? Or for auto racing?  It seems a big deal when someone like Earnhardt or Senna die while racing, but comparatively, even though it seems rare, is it also so many fewer miles that it is more dangerous? 

Generally, you'd have to think "pro" or "skilled" drivers are a safer bet, but we also know racing is done at or near the margins of maximum risk, whereas we hope, driving on public roads is done at 50% or with significantly greater margin for error. 

Racing is also done with a crap ton more safety equipment built in to the cars & bikes albeit not much more for bikes…

Im seeing more people commuting on motorcycle and do wonder if moto crashes will spike.  In CA you can split lanes so a motorist has to really check closely that no moto’s are in the gaps between lanes before changing lanes.  Many do not…

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3 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

Racing is also done with a crap ton more safety equipment built in to the cars & bikes albeit not much more for bikes…

Yeah - but that safety equipment is tested at 200mph or whatever insane speed some NASCAR of F1 folks are doing.  And it is 500 miles with 32 drivers or 24hrs with 150 drivers, vs 24/7/365 with millions of drivers and billions of miles.  We lose 30k or 40k folks in car crashes a year, and we rarely lose one racing, but racing has to be a tiny tiny tiny amount of total miles compared to the insanity of roads today.  

I'm guessing that the insurance companies have those numbers.  Maybe for driving, the pool is big enough, it doesn't matter for driving, but for racing, they require additional coverage?

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1 hour ago, Razors Edge said:

Including the "bus hill"?

I can avoid the bus hill completely, when the back part opens.  It is all full of snow and thick tire caking mud right now.  It is quite a climb, but I am good with it.  I should easily get in 1000 ft per day on my commute.  My only problem might be the mountain lions.  They are afraid of me, so I am not too concerned.

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2 hours ago, sheep_herder said:

This comment is totally foreign to me.:whistle: We buy a truck to use, and battle scars just add character.

It's amazing to me how many trucks don't have even a small scratch in the bed or bedliner. The guy across the street from me has a Ford Raptor that has never been off road. He uses it as a daily commuter.

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