Ok, question about the stuff that the Ukrainians nabbed from the Russians

[ChrisL]

4 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

This is true, they can do the thinking, sighting, and pulling the trigger part.  They would also have a harder time with any kind of strength work, making them impractical in many missions.  To Chris' point, yeah, there are some bad-ass chicks out there, but not enough to go around when requirements are to lift very heavy things or lift heavy things repetitively.  Which means, other than ones or two's, ain't happening for all practical purposes.

Brute strength is a commonly mistaken attribute needed for soldiers & marines.  Other than special ops guys (and many of them aren’t) you need endurance and the ability to move your weight & carried weight long distances for long periods of time.   Bench pressing 500 lbs isn’t needed and most soldiers including me are more “ropey” strong than muscle bound.  

We called it functional strength and most women I have come across have it.  It’s the really petite females that struggle.  

[maddmaxx ★]

9 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

This is true, they can do the thinking, sighting, and pulling the trigger part.  They would also have a harder time with any kind of strength work, making them impractical in many missions.  To Chris' point, yeah, there are some bad-ass chicks out there, but not enough to go around when requirements are to lift very heavy things or lift heavy things repetitively.  Which means, other than ones or two's, ain't happening for all practical purposes.

I'm glad to see that you are shifting away from the never going to happen into the maybe sometimes in special circumstances with selected people it's possible that it might just maybe accidently happen.  

[Randomguy]

12 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

Brute strength is a commonly mistaken attribute needed for soldiers & marines.  Other than special ops guys (and many of them aren’t) you need endurance and the ability to move your weight & carried weight long distances for long periods of time.   Bench pressing 500 lbs isn’t needed and most soldiers including me are more “ropey” strong than muscle bound.  

We called it functional strength and most women I have come across have it.  It’s the really petite females that struggle.  

No, I get you, I don't see muscle-bound guys as being athletic except in one sense.  I know there are plenty of things chicks do just as well as dudes, but lifting even moderately heavy things all day really isn't one of them.  Many guys aren't cut out for that, either.  People who are capable of doing it on base or depot is one thing, lots of lifts or procedures to make it easier, but suddenly having to use all your strength and having it not be enough in the field is another thing entirely.  Working on heavy equipment in the field is for the stronger folks.

[Wilbur ★]

10 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

No, I get you, I don't see muscle-bound guys as being athletic except in one sense.  I know there are plenty of things chicks do just as well as dudes, but lifting even moderately heavy things all day really isn't one of them.  Many guys aren't cut out for that, either.  People who are capable of doing it on base or depot is one thing, lots of lifts or procedures to make it easier, but suddenly having to use all your strength and having it not be enough in the field is another thing entirely.  Working on heavy equipment in the field is for the stronger folks.

Personally, I think tanks should be unmanned, like drones.  That way they aren't just mobile coffins. 

[Razors Edge ★]

4 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Personally, I think tanks should be unmanned, like drones.

Knowing what you know about fighter planes, how do unmanned ones compare to piloted ones?  And would unmanned ones work across the various types of planes we have nowadays - from fighters to bombers to all the other types?  

[ChrisL]

10 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Personally, I think tanks should be unmanned, like drones.  That way they aren't just mobile coffins. 

Now I was never in combat but M111’s, Bradley’s & Strykers gave me the heebie jeebies.  We mostly operated in 3 “man” gun jeeps which gave me a sense of security in that we can control our destiny (to an extent)  but being packed in an APC’s was stifling.  I felt like it was a coffin.  

[Wilbur ★]

Just now, Razors Edge said:

Knowing what you know about fighter planes, how do unmanned ones compare to piloted ones?  And would unmanned ones work across the various types of planes we have nowadays - from fighters to bombers to all the other types?  

I have been doing some flight testing for a company developing pilotless aircraft.  They are done flight testing and on to the certification stage.  This could be applied easily to all types of aircraft, including fighters. 

[JerrySTL ★]

1 hour ago, Randomguy said:

I do believe that, like female dentists and proctologists, there would be certain advantages to having chicks in those tight places.  That said, other than one or two for show, ain't happening.  Too much strength work as far as I can figure, loading shells, wrenching heavy-ass things, getting out and having to go hand to hand with enemy soldiers, etc.  Just not practical.  Plus, it is loud and hot in tanks, they are made of metal.  Chicks generally don't thrive on that stuff, dudes, either.

I trained many women to work on aircraft including replacing 250 pound wheel and tire assemblies plus jacking up aircraft by hand that weighed 80,000 pounds. I even hired a woman to do the same training. 

[12string]

43 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Personally, I think tanks should be unmanned, like drones.  That way they aren't just mobile coffins. 

I don't understand how we don't have this yet.  All of the technology exists, much of it is in use.

My son just ran a cargo ship on a 1000 mile cruise, in and out of port, completely autonomous, he wasn't even on board.  Tanks are way smaller.

[Kzoo]

I remember my brother who was an Army E-8 in the artillery at the time explain why he hated working with women.  His crews needed to be responsive and mobile.  He said every time a male soldier need to move a box or piece of equipment they moved it.  Every time one of his female reports had to move something, it took another resource to help.  It diminished both his readiness and execution.  He happily retired.

 

[ChrisL]

4 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

I remember my brother who was an Army E-8 in the artillery at the time explain why he hated working with women.  His crews needed to be responsive and mobile.  He said every time a male soldier need to move a box or piece of equipment they moved it.  Every time one of his female reports had to move something, it took another resource to help.  It diminished both his readiness and execution.  He happily retired.

 

I had female soldiers in my squad. I served alongside them and had to lead them and it’s hard.  The expectation is every soldier carried their weight but you also know some can’t carry the same weight as others.  Some leaders said tough shit, do your job soldier and others made accommodations.  Some female soldiers relished the fact that they could do the job and some wanted to be catered to because of actual & sometimes perceived limitations.   

Back to my earlier point I honestly believe there should be a physical fitness test for combat arms.   50 push ups, 20 pull ups, 150 lb dummy drag, agility course & 2 mile timed run.  Pass & move on.  Fail & do something else.  Just like the PD’s do.  I never had to make accommodations for female cops.  

As it stands now (well in my day and I believe still) men have one physical fitness standard and women have a lower standard. It really becomes an issue when a 90 lb 5’ female has to carry her weight in her load out.  

Also, put physically fit teenage/early 20’s men in women in close proximity for long periods of time and shenanigans happen too.  Many intra squad romances & just plain hookups would happen and women were often sexually harassed if not physically verbally.  You may have 2 females who wanted to party and two that didn’t but the assumption was they all did which put the two who didn’t in a bad way. 

The military is a really tough profession but especially so for women. Especially lower enlisted women.