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Chinese Airliner crash


12string
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The news reports are just saying there's nothing left of the plane, 

I just watched a cell phone video from a friend of a friend in China.  Showed the plane headed straight into the ground, at almost 90 degrees, note spinning or tumbling.

What say ye, Wilbur?  Is that even a thing?  Or Deep fake?  

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1 hour ago, Wilbur said:

It is on video.  I will act like the TSB and you all act like the media.

Here goes:  This has every indication of a loss of control accident. 

Question—-  I am Airehead from Talking Heads TV.  Loss of control, sounds serious. Was it?  Is this common?

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18 minutes ago, Airehead said:

Question—-  I am Airehead from Talking Heads TV.  Loss of control, sounds serious. Was it?  Is this common?

Yes, because if they had control, they would not have hit the ground.  Unless of course, crazy pilot.  That seems to be on the rise. 

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Just now, Wilbur said:

Yes, because if they had control, they would not have hit the ground.  Unless of course, crazy pilot.  That seems to be on the rise. 

From the flight profile it looks like they may have stalled; pulled up after a while; then stalled again.

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14 hours ago, JerrySTL said:

From the flight profile it looks like they may have stalled; pulled up after a while; then stalled again.

Yeah, don't know what happened there.  I suspect an in-flight break up.  I don't see an empennage in the video.  Don't know if they had a catastrophic failure or perhaps terrorism.  The earlier 737-300 and 400 had issues with rudder bias systems that caused control issues and the loss of two or three airframes.  The 800 does not have MCAS so that is out. We will see.  It may still be a psychotic episode. Who knows? 

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8 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Yeah, don't know what happened there.  I suspect an in-flight break up.  I don't see an empennage in the video.  Don't know if they had a catastrophic failure or perhaps terrorism.  The earlier 737-300 and 400 had issues with rudder bias systems that caused control issues and the loss of two or three airframes.  The 800 does not have MCAS so that is out. We will see.  It may still be a psychotic episode. Who knows? 

I am thinking terror or crazed flight crew.  This is only like the 10th fatal incident with that plane and experts are saying one has never just fallen from the sky. 

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3 minutes ago, jsharrwick said:

I am thinking terror or crazed flight crew.  This is only like the 10th fatal incident with that plane and experts are saying one has never just fallen from the sky. 

The rudder bias accidents were very much like that so the "experts" aren't being totally honest.   They tend to happen when maneuvering though and there were a couple of AD's to address it.   It is very difficult to achieve a near perfectly vertical dive without either intent, or a missing tail section.  

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28 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

I would never accuse him of doing so. 

Since he is definitively one of our resident "experts", you came mighty close with that "aren't being totally honest" bit. He is probably licking his wounds :(

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Just now, Razors Edge said:

Since he is definitively one of our resident "experts", you came mighty close with that "aren't being totally honest" bit. He is probably licking his wounds :(

lets get back to talking about the plane crash please.

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5 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Well, give us your HONEST opinion this time, sir!

I think someone crashed it.  I think Wilbur knows the tail broke off, but we don't know why.  I think it is a horrible loss of life.  

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Just now, Prophet Zacharia said:

So a suicidal pilot/flight crew, or a terroristic intervention?

Didn’t a Lufthansa flight crash in the Alps under similar circumstances? IIRC that was pilot suicide.

Pilot or flight crew is what I am thinking.  Not sure why, but when I saw the images of the jet going straight down, I thought, "that just does not happen on it's own"   I bet in the long run Wilbur is right and the tail came off, for whatever reason.  

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2 hours ago, Wilbur said:

Yeah, don't know what happened there.  I suspect an in-flight break up.  I don't see an empennage in the video.  Don't know if they had a catastrophic failure or perhaps terrorism.  The earlier 737-300 and 400 had issues with rudder bias systems that caused control issues and the loss of two or three airframes.  The 800 does not have MCAS so that is out. We will see.  It may still be a psychotic episode. Who knows? 

I remember reading and seeing a show about the rudder issues. 

There's a Wikipedia page on it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_rudder_issues

 

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2 hours ago, Wilbur said:

The rudder bias accidents were very much like that so the "experts" aren't being totally honest.   They tend to happen when maneuvering though and there were a couple of AD's to address it.   It is very difficult to achieve a near perfectly vertical dive without either intent, or a missing tail section.  

I find your airplane knowledge fascinating :) 

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3 hours ago, Wilbur said:

It is very difficult to achieve a near perfectly vertical dive without either intent, or a missing tail section.  

It just occurred to me that the wings would still provide lift even in a vertical dive which would tend to gradually pull the aircraft from vertical unless someone was forcing the aircraft down or the aircraft was corkscrewing / spinning.

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6 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

40 years into it, something has to stick, right? :)

yup. I find flying, along with other complicated things, interesting.  From the physics involved to what you pilots have to know and calculate to make a flight. I've watched some you tube videos about pre-flight preparations. I'm impressed.

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26 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

40 years into it, something has to stick, right? :)

40 years into it and it all starts slipping away.

At lease that's what Maxi says...

 

 

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1 hour ago, JerrySTL said:

It just occurred to me that the wings would still provide lift even in a vertical dive which would tend to gradually pull the aircraft from vertical unless someone was forcing the aircraft down or the aircraft was corkscrewing / spinning.

The video I saw, it was definitely not corkscrewing or spinning.  Other than the 90 degree horizon, It looked normal flight

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