Did We Put To Rest The "Electronic Devices" Nonsense?

[Razors Edge ★]

...or is that still a thing when flying?  Do you bother turning off your phones (or go into airplane mode)?  Power down your devices for take off and landing?  Not make or take calls during your time in the plane or even in flight?

Seems like this is old thinking?

[Randomguy]

It was dumb when it started, I never turned mine off.

[JerrySTL ★]

5G has started all the worries again. I think more from the towers than individual phones. You don't want to find out what interferes with aircraft avionics the hard way.

[Razors Edge ★]

1 minute ago, JerrySTL said:

5G has started all the worries again. I think more from the towers than individual phones. You don't want to find out what interferes with aircraft avionics the hard way.

We'll see if it is just that much more nonsense.  

11 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

It was dumb when it started, I never turned mine off.

Did anyone die from that?  Are you a killer?

[Randomguy]

40 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

We'll see if it is just that much more nonsense.  

Did anyone die from that?  Are you a killer?

Hundreds around me dropped dead when I didn't turn off my phone.  Mostly from the Bill Gates tracking/murder chips that we got with our childhood vaccines, and refreshed when the Fauci virus and resulting vaccinations happened.  And I am ok with that.

[12string]

I totally get why they started doing that.  Better safe than sorry, no one was going to die from not reading Facebook on a plane.

Last time I flew, they didn't mention it.  Maybe they forgot.  But we made it.

[Bikeguy]

I haven't been on a flight in a few years (or more).  When I did fly, I turned off the phone.   Mostly because if a cell phone has little of no cell tower signal to connect to, the phone uses more power looking for call tower to connect to, and drains the battery faster.    So my cell phone battery is still charged when we land.

It was always amazing to me, how a cell phone, laptop, tablet, etc... could interfere with a flight.   I'd suggest they should have figured out how to eliminate outside interference a LONG time ago.  

[Randomguy]

1 minute ago, Bikeguy said:

I haven't been on a flight in a few years (or more).  When I did fly, I turned off the phone.   Mostly because if a cell phone has little of no cell tower signal to connect to, the phone uses more power looking for call tower to connect to, and drains the battery faster.    So my cell phone battery is still charged when we land.

It was always amazing to me, how a cell phone, laptop, tablet, etc... could interfere with a flight.   I'd suggest they should have figured out how to eliminate outside interference a LONG time ago.  

I always put it in airplane mode at takeoff, and just left it on for music and games.  It was never adequately explained (or explained at all) why it could ever be a hazard in that state.  

[Razors Edge ★]

1 hour ago, Randomguy said:

Hundreds around me dropped dead when I didn't turn off my phone.  

In your defense, that was their fault, not yours. They made a choice to get near you, didn't they?

[Wilbur ★]

25 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

I always put it in airplane mode at takeoff, and just left it on for music and games.  It was never adequately explained (or explained at all) why it could ever be a hazard in that state.  

The 5G issues will cause crashes at some point unless a fix for it is found.  That is a given. There are numerous systems that rely on accurate radar altimetry including auto land features.  If an autopilot commences auto land at 500 feet above ground, the results will be splattered bodies. 

Mobile phones in the past have had proven effects in lab testing and aircraft that detrimentally affect VHF communications and navigation radios.  I have never had a noticeable problem with navigation but have had a lot of comm radio interference when numerous mobile phones reach ground stations.  

So, don't be a childish, insolent, ignorant know-it-all asshole.  Turn your phone off or at least use the Airplane mode. 

[Razors Edge ★]

6 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

So, don't be a childish, insolent, ignorant know-it-all asshole.  Turn your phone off or at least use the Airplane mode. 

But, it is his choice.  He's willing to risk it.

[Wilbur ★]

6 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

But, it is his choice.  He's willing to risk it.

FWIW, we turn our phones off up front. 

[TrentonMakes]

Last time I flew (2017) I put the phone in airplane mode.

[Randomguy]

19 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

The 5G issues will cause crashes at some point unless a fix for it is found.  That is a given. There are numerous systems that rely on accurate radar altimetry including auto land features.  If an autopilot commences auto land at 500 feet above ground, the results will be splattered bodies. 

Mobile phones in the past have had proven effects in lab testing and aircraft that detrimentally affect VHF communications and navigation radios.  I have never had a noticeable problem with navigation but have had a lot of comm radio interference when numerous mobile phones reach ground stations.  

So, don't be a childish, insolent, ignorant know-it-all asshole.  Turn your phone off or at least use the Airplane mode. 

Yup, I said right there in my post that I put it in airplane mode, so I am not turning the phone off at all.   Not gonna happen, I will listen to music and play a game or two like I always have.  So, like I asked, how is it hazardous in that state?

[Wilbur ★]

4 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

Yup, I said right there in my post that I put it in airplane mode, so I am not turning the phone off at all.   Not gonna happen, I will listen to music and play a game or two like I always have.  So, like I asked, how is it hazardous in that state?

There is no requirement to turn it off but there is airplane mode.  The reason they don't want you using it with headphones during critical phases of flight is because you need to be able to hear voice and PA commands in emergency situation.  If you are listening to music, you may not be able to hear, thus follow commands and you become a hinderance to the safety of responsible passengers.  No different than lowering tray tables and seat backs before takeoff or landing.  I will also remind you that the Captain is a peace officer once an aircraft moves under it's own power and has the right to have you arrested and charged so they aren't just nice requests the inconvenience people, the commands are the law.   It is all spelled out in the legal jargon on ticket purchases. 

[Randomguy]

2 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

It is all spelled out in the legal jargon on ticket purchases. 

Whatever, I am still listening to music, that isn't gonna change.  People are people, and the majority of folks on the plane are listening to something on their personal devices.  The entire airline industry might as well accept that reality.

[Square Wheels]

As a responsible citizen, when I fly (can't remember the last time), I turn my phone off.

I hope never to fly with RG.

[Razors Edge ★]

6 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

Whatever, I am still listening to music, that isn't gonna change.  People are people, and the majority of folks on the plane are listening to something on their personal devices.  The entire airline industry might as well accept that reality.

What does Spotify or Pandora or whatever do when you go into airplane mode?

[shootingstar]

25 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

There is no requirement to turn it off but there is airplane mode.  The reason they don't want you using it with headphones during critical phases of flight is because you need to be able to hear voice and PA commands in emergency situation.  If you are listening to music, you may not be able to hear, thus follow commands and you become a hinderance to the safety of responsible passengers.  No different than lowering tray tables and seat backs before takeoff or landing.  I will also remind you that the Captain is a peace officer once an aircraft moves under it's own power and has the right to have you arrested and charged so they aren't just nice requests the inconvenience people, the commands are the law.   It is all spelled out in the legal jargon on ticket purchases. 

 

20 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

Whatever, I am still listening to music, that isn't gonna change.  People are people, and the majority of folks on the plane are listening to something on their personal devices.  The entire airline industry might as well accept that reality.

I would support Wilbur's position completely. 

Perhaps photos of an errant passenger in plane,  who physically is violent under the circumstances for totally different violations, as evidence would be considered seriously.

******I think the international/federal authorities and airline industry have to have a plain language educational signage/campaign for inform the general public.

Try to understand what a peace officer means.... it is spelled out in Canada's Criminal Code and various legislation at  the provincial  jurisdictions across canada.... without me researching the law, these are uniformed  folks who have the legal power to stop people from damage  property/hurting /endangering physical safety of other people, etc.   In canada they are not armed, but can write tickets for fines  /violations and detain you until police come to arrest /further questions, etc.  

Examples:  transit peace officers, bylaw officers...these are uniformed staff in our organization.... otherwise, they can't perform their jobs. They must in uniform for public to visibly recognize them as soon as they approach you or use speed radars on bike paths.  Yes, these staff  what they do....does end up in court for whatever violation tickets they wrote/filed with photos for evidence.

I've had to cite of our legislation ....because it drives how long we  keep digital records for our organizaton, of what our peace officers on staff do... because what they do gets used, for cases, in court.

 

[Randomguy]

1 minute ago, Square Wheels said:

As a responsible citizen, when I fly (can't remember the last time), I turn my phone off.

I hope never to fly with RG.

It is silly to turn it off, why would you do such a thing?  Also, I bet you don't go the whole flight staring straight ahead, nor does SD when she flies.

It is about time that things are designed for what people are going to do, rather than what someone wishes people would do.  Besides, describe my 'unsafe' behavior that would jeopardize you in some way, but do it realistically, not some fanciful once in a billion unicorn rectal live birth scenario so convoluted that it simply doesn't happen, if you can.  

The plain fact is that the majority of folks on whatever plane you are on are listening to music, watching a movie, listening to a podcast, or sleeping, possibly all at the same time.  That is the reality.

[Square Wheels]

1 minute ago, Randomguy said:

It is silly to turn it off, why would you do such a thing?  Also, I bet you don't go the whole flight staring straight ahead, nor does SD when she flies.

It is about time that things are designed for what people are going to do, rather than what someone wishes people would do.  Besides, describe my 'unsafe' behavior that would jeopardize you in some way, but do it realistically, not some fanciful once in a billion unicorn rectal live birth scenario so convoluted that it simply doesn't happen, if you can.  

The plain fact is that the majority of folks on whatever plane you are on are listening to music, watching a movie, listening to a podcast, or sleeping, possibly all at the same time.  That is the reality.

At a minimum I put it on airplane mode.  Since I will not be using it, I simply turn it off to ensure the battery is full when I land.

Why?  It's the rule.  I want to fly on your plane, I follow your rules.  

It's pretty simple.

It's how we maintain a civil society.

[Randomguy]

6 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

What does Spotify or Pandora or whatever do when you go into airplane mode?

Not sure about Pandora, but when you have the paid version of Spotify, it still works when you are on airplane mode for songs that you have saved.  I have the paid version simply because I am in subways a bunch where there is no signal, and I want to tune out most things.  Your cue to take an earphone out is if you are stopped long or everyone seems to be craning their necks like dogs do when they are confused about something, trying to hear an announcement from a half-working loudspeaker.

[Randomguy]

6 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

I would support Wilbur's position completely. 

Would you not support my position, too?  They aren't far off, you know.

 

3 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

At a minimum I put it on airplane mode.  Since I will not be using it, I simply turn it off to ensure the battery is full when I land.

Yeah, and I stated that I put it in airplane mode, too.  I go in with a charged phone, and if I do run low, at some point I might turn it off so I have at least 20% left when I get off the plane.

So you seriously NEVER have your smartphone powered on at any time on a flight?  I do find this very hard to believe that you never listen to something or read from a tablet or somesuch.  Not because you are a liar or anything, but simply because the vast majority of people on flights do those things.

[Razors Edge ★]

4 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

It's how we maintain a civil society.

  We might be a bit past that, don't you think?

3 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

Your cue to take an earphone out is if you are stopped long or everyone seems to be craning their necks like dogs do when they are confused about something, trying to hear an announcement from a half-working loudspeaker.

Too accurate.  For us, half-working loudspeaker would be a good day!

7 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

The plain fact is that the majority of folks on whatever plane you are on are listening to music, watching a movie, listening to a podcast, or sleeping, possibly all at the same time.  That is the reality.

...and in their own worlds, so neither hear the "turn off or put into airplane mode" comments, nor really think it applies to them anyway.  I don't fly enough to see anyone hauled off in cuffs from not doing it, nor have I seen any proactive review of the policy by flight attendants checking someone's phone status, nor known anyone who told me they had ever been fined for such an action. 

[shootingstar]

10 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

  We might be a bit past that, don't you think?

Too accurate.  For us, half-working loudspeaker would be a good day!

...and in their own worlds, so neither hear the "turn off or put into airplane mode" comments, nor really think it applies to them anyway.  I don't fly enough to see anyone hauled off in cuffs from not doing it, nor have I seen any proactive review of the policy by flight attendants checking someone's phone status, nor known anyone who told me they had ever been fined for such an action. 

I was referring more to physical altercations..or even sexual assault sitting beside someone, which there have been such cases. But you never know, if something happens depending on the future capabilities of our personal /work electronic devices.

Though this is more medical, I have been on 2 different flights, where there was a medical emergency and the pilot called for off duty doctor, etc. among passengers to assist. The plane had a medical doctor ready to board as soon as we landed.

[Randomguy]

3 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

...and in their own worlds, so neither hear the "turn off or put into airplane mode" comments, nor really think it applies to them anyway.  I don't fly enough to see anyone hauled off in cuffs from not doing it, nor have I seen any proactive review of the policy by flight attendants checking someone's phone status, nor known anyone who told me they had ever been fined for such an action. 

Who isn't in their own worlds on a plane?  I have also never seen anyone reprimanded in any way for having their phones on, or checked to see if airplane mode is on.  Nobody pays any attention after the first dozen flights they have been on, they aren't telling us anything new.  If pressure drops suddenly, or there is turbulence, or you hear the captain's voice over your music, or you know you will be landing soon, then you pay attention.  Also, if there are explosions or fictional religious characters are made real in some odd way, then you can pay attention, too.

[Square Wheels]

14 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

So you seriously NEVER have your smartphone powered on at any time on a flight?  I do find this very hard to believe that you never listen to something or read from a tablet or somesuch.  Not because you are a liar or anything, but simply because the vast majority of people on flights do those things.

If I read, it's on my tablet.  I put that in airplane mode.

[Razors Edge ★]

Just now, Square Wheels said:

If I read, it's on my tablet.  I put that in airplane mode.

But does that matter? In a plane full of non-conformists, how are you still alive????

[Square Wheels]

15 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

We might be a bit past that, don't you think?

Sadly all people feel entitled to everything they want and have made their problems my problems.

I have very little faith in a civil society.

I'll be dead soon, this mess will be someone else's issue.

[Square Wheels]

Just now, Razors Edge said:

But does that matter? In a plane full of non-conformists, how are you still alive????

I am not aware.  People much smarter than me have made the rule, if I want to use an electronic device, I will only do so when allowed, and I will do it under the conditions they impose.

It's really not that hard.

[Razors Edge ★]

1 minute ago, Square Wheels said:

I'll be dead soon, this mess will be someone else's issue.

Hopefully not too soon!  You, like me, probably have several decades to go, so we at least need it to keep functioning for a while longer. After that? Not our problem

[Randomguy]

3 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

If I read, it's on my tablet.  I put that in airplane mode.

So how is that different from reading on the Kindle app on my phone?  You have an electric device powered on while on an airplane, and in airplane mode.  Same same.

Also, how many planes have charging ports for the passengers?   The airlines absolutely know that powered devices are on at all times, and are charging those devices because it has become an expected feature of flying, just like having 4 square inches to yourself and hefty and or screaming folks next to you.

[Randomguy]

7 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

Sadly all people feel entitled to everything they want and have made their problems my problems.

I have very little faith in a civil society.

I'll be dead soon, this mess will be someone else's issue.

We will all be dead soon, possibly from your tablet and my phone on a flight.  Somehow.  Not sure how that magic happens, but apparently it is pretty hardcore voodoo.  Zombie gods coming back from the dead will somehow revive us or give eternal everything, though, so we have that going for us.

[Page Turner]

53 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

As a responsible citizen, when I fly (can't remember the last time), I turn my phone off.

I hope never to fly with RG.

...this is the music he listens to in flight:

 

 

[Page Turner]

8 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

We will all be dead soon, possibly from your tablet and my phone on a flight.  Somehow.  ...

...but some of us will die in prison, like Charlie Manson. 

[Wilbur ★]

1 hour ago, Randomguy said:

Whatever, I am still listening to music, that isn't gonna change.  People are people, and the majority of folks on the plane are listening to something on their personal devices.  The entire airline industry might as well accept that reality.

It isn't the industry, it is the FAA and every other regulatory body in the world. 

[Randomguy]

50 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

People much smarter than me have made the rule

This is how we got the south in the country.  People too dumb to ever try and think get people just as dumb or worse to run things, with predictable results.

I think about every rule, whether it is old-school rules or new fangled rules.  If they don't make any sense upon thought and follow-up, then we shouldn't follow them.  Examples would be the old don't swim within the magical thirty minute window of eating or you will Shirley die, plus tons of nazis were "just following orders".  There is often a point to the rules.  There also often is just some tryant or other being an asshole and making rules to suit themselves.

You are smart enough to know when to question some silliness or other being passed off as fact when you know it isn't.  Look at bookface, for instance. look at any of the echo chambers there.  They are always spouting off pure idiocy and all acting like there isn't a pandemic or some asshole that much of the country realized was totally worthless got tossed on his ass, but no way it could have gone that way "because I really REALLY wanted reality to match my fantasy".

 

[Square Wheels]

1 minute ago, Randomguy said:

This is how we got the south in the country.  People too dumb to ever try and think get people just as dumb or worse to run things, with predictable results.

I think about every rule, whether it is old-school rules or new fangled rules.  If they don't make any sense upon thought and follow-up, then we shouldn't follow them.  Examples would be the old don't swim within the magical thirty minute window of eating or you will Shirley die, stuff like that.  There is often a point to the rules.  There often is just some petty tryant or other being an asshole and making rules to suit themselves.

You can choose to create your own society, or live withing the rules of this one.

Really, it's not that hard.

[Page Turner]

2 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

I think about every rule, whether it is old-school rules or new fangled rules.  If they don't make any sense upon thought and follow-up, then we shouldn't follow them.

...thank you.  The emergency response business provided me with a reasonable steady income, and paid for my house.

Without this sort of thinking in the general populace, all that would have been impossible.  You have reminded me of the genius who used gasoline as a floor stripper, and his cousin, who rigged up an old water heater tank as his pressure reserve tank for an air compressor.  That was one of the funniest things I have ever seen, with that water heater tank sitting in the top floor bedroom of the house next door, with daylight streaming in from the hole in the roof. 

[maddmaxx ★]

1 hour ago, Randomguy said:

Whatever, I am still listening to music, that isn't gonna change.  People are people, and the majority of folks on the plane are listening to something on their personal devices.  The entire airline industry might as well accept that reality.

You find however that about half of the people out there are assholes.

[Page Turner]

5 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

You can choose to create your own society, or live withing the rules of this one.

Really, it's not that hard.

...why do you hate firemen ?

[maddmaxx ★]

Just now, Page Turner said:

...why do you hate firemen ?

It is unfortunate that Darwinism has such an effect on those who were following the rules.  If only it could concentrate on those for whom the effect is appropriate.

[Page Turner]

...let's all join in a rousing chorus of that old Southern gospel hymn, "I'll Fly Away". 

 

 

[Page Turner]

2 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

It is unfortunate that Darwinism has such an effect on those who were following the rules.  If only it could concentrate on those for whom the effect is appropriate.

...those people next door were kind of in a state of shock.

[Randomguy]

15 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

You find however that about half of the people out there are assholes.

Just half?  Almost all, if you are in a self-centric thought pattern that doesn't examine things from multiple angles.  But you can tell me now how a powered on phone in airplane mode is gonna crash a plane, I am all ears.  The fact that no one here is able to do just that should speak volumes.

 

21 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

You can choose to create your own society, or live withing the rules of this one.

Really, it's not that hard.

Stupid rules are not to be followed.  ALL of the people that ever smoked pot previous to some states legalization did just that, and all crime that came from pot came from it being illegal.  Bad law, universally broken.  Just one example, I am sure we could go all day pointing out asinine laws that have gone by the wayside or are still in place.  You can point to reasonable laws that are reasonable at face value, but those don't prove that many, MANY stupid laws are still in place.

[Square Wheels]

5 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

Stupid rules are not to be followed.  ALL of the people that ever smoked pot previous to some states legalization did just that, and all crime that came from pot came from it being illegal.  Bad law, universally broken.  Just one example, I am sure we could go all day pointing out asinine laws that have gone by the wayside or are still in place.  You can point to reasonable laws that are reasonable at face value, but those don't prove that many, MANY stupid laws are still in place.

You don't get to make up your own facts.

In the US, the FAA said no cell phone use on a plane.  No one cares if it's correct, or if you agree, it's the law.  Maybe it won't be some day.

As for pot, I don't care now, and didn't care then.  I've never participated.  If you did, and got caught, and were punished, good luck telling the judge you don't believe in their laws.

[Randomguy]

1 minute ago, Square Wheels said:

You don't get to make up your own facts.

In the US, the FAA said no cell phone use on a plane.  No one cares if it's correct, or if you agree, it's the law.  Maybe it won't be some day.

As for pot, I don't care now, and didn't care then.  I've never participated.  If you did, and got caught, and were punished, good luck telling the judge you don't believe in their laws.

Prohibition, premarital sex, interracial relationships, laws that require you to go to church, laws that prohibit certain holes from being violated when you shower together, chicks not voting or driving and not having the ability to own property, not being able to vote if you didn't own land, slavery.  Which of those were good ones?  How long did it take to get them off the books?  Were they good one day, and then when the law changed, were they now bad on a moral level?  Lots more to choose from.

 

[maddmaxx ★]

16 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

Just half?  Almost all, if you are in a self-centric thought pattern that doesn't examine things from multiple angles.  But you can tell me now how a powered on phone in airplane mode is gonna crash a plane, I am all ears.  The fact that no one here is able to do just that should speak volumes.

 

Stupid rules are not to be followed.  ALL of the people that ever smoked pot previous to some states legalization did just that, and all crime that came from pot came from it being illegal.  Bad law, universally broken.  Just one example, I am sure we could go all day pointing out asinine laws that have gone by the wayside or are still in place.  You can point to reasonable laws that are reasonable at face value, but those don't prove that many, MANY stupid laws are still in place.

You're attempting to make a meal out of scraps (from now till eternity to be known as a RGism).  Airplane mode didn't exist for all phones when the rule was created.  It might not still for all phones, so to keep the ignorant from turning on an active phone they ask everyone to not do so.  Wilbur has given you reasons why some phones have interacted with his aircraft systems.  If you refuse to listen then that's on you.

[Page Turner]

5 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

Which of those were good ones?  How long did it take to get them off the books?  Were they good one day, and then when the law changed, were they now bad on a moral level?

...there is no way you will ever convince me that you playing your collection of Frank Sinatra songs, (including some of the earlier, more obscure stuff you don't hear every day), while flying on an airplane, is some kind of moral crusade, on the level of voting rights for women and the elimination of separate but equal schools for children.

And I like Frank Sinatra songs, for the most part.

[Randomguy]

1 minute ago, maddmaxx said:

You're attempting to make a meal out of scraps.  Airplane mode didn't exist for all phones when the rule was created.  It might not still for all phones, so to keep the ignorant from turning on an active phone they ask everyone to not do so.  Wilbur has given you reasons why some phones have interacted with his aircraft systems.  If you refuse to listen then that's on you.

WRONG!   My first iphone had airplane mode, I don't know of a phone that doesn't or didn't have one.  Certainly not any popular phone in the last decade or more.  As far as mountains and molehills, you and others just keep at it.  I will continue to retort against this wrongitry, though.

Wilbur has given exactly zero reasons how my powered Iphone in airplane mode is gonna crash any plane, because it is impossible unless you throw it throw the window into the engine or death-star style at the captain while also hitting the co-captain.  If you or Wilbur refuse to acknowledge my multiple posts referencing my phone in airplane mode, then that is on you.  Are you gonna acknowledge that all my posts in this topic reference my phone in airplane mode when flying?