Even more hate

[Airehead]

California church shooting is also awful 

 

 

Authorities have said Chou — a U.S. citizen who authorities say grew up in Taiwan — was motivated by hatred of Taiwanese people. A federal hate crimes investigation is also ongoing.

[ChrisL]

Many focus on white hate towards other ethnic groups but in SoCal we have a very diverse population who have some deep rooted hate towards other groups.

The Vietnamese and Cambodians have a long established hatred for each other which has spilled over here. Working as a cop in a city with a strong Vietnamese, Korean & Cambodian communities we saw many hate crimes committed by these groups against other Asian groups.  It was so prevalent we had cultural training on it.

 Many don’t realize the Blacks & Koreans have been feuding in LA for decades.  During the last LA riots many missed the fact that Korean businesses were targeted by blacks.  Hispanics and blacks have been at it for ages as well.  

It always struck me as odd that ethnic groups who have felt persecuted & stereotyped by whites then turn & do the same thing to other ethnic groups.  

[Airehead]

Thanks for an interesting perspective 

[shootingstar]

I always  find it disappointing at least within Asian communities...centuries old hatred migrated from old country sometimes or the mentality of picking/attacking  already another  group that is vulnerable..

Then it's just as  oppressive  when on rare occasion, a black young guy says something deragatory to me, To me that's just a stunning example of outright anger....at the wrong person for  wrong reasons.

[groupw]

Our old town had a big immigrant population because of the meat packing plant which is a large employer. I remember in 1983, there was a house with Laotians across the street from our apartment. We never had any problems with them, but some Latinos threw Molotov cocktails at the house apparently because they resented them “stealing jobs” at the packing plant. 
In the late 80s, there was apparently nearly an all out war between the legal and illegal immigrants for a similar reason. It happened in front of a coworker’s house. He saw machetes, knives and chains. Somehow it got asked down with only a few punches thrown. 
The latest influx was Sudanese and Somali. Some among them have a hard time adjusting because they grew up in lawless territories. They don’t even know what rules to follow. Most assimilated well, but some are just scary people. 
It’s everywhere, but it can be beat. I’ve seen children of the Asian and Latin immigrants now dating, marrying and having children. There might be resentment, but I also see hatchets being buried. Unfortunately, too many choose to be angry instead. 

[shootingstar]

16 minutes ago, groupw said:

Our old town had a big immigrant population because of the meat packing plant which is a large employer. I remember in 1983, there was a house with Laotians across the street from our apartment. We never had any problems with them, but some Latinos threw Molotov cocktails at the house apparently because they resented them “stealing jobs” at the packing plant. 
In the late 80s, there was apparently nearly an all out war between the legal and illegal immigrants for a similar reason. It happened in front of a coworker’s house. He saw machetes, knives and chains. Somehow it got asked down with only a few punches thrown. 
The latest influx was Sudanese and Somali. Some among them have a hard time adjusting because they grew up in lawless territories. They don’t even know what rules to follow. Most assimilated well, but some are just scary people. 
It’s everywhere, but it can be beat. I’ve seen children of the Asian and Latin immigrants now dating, marrying and having children. There might be resentment, but I also see hatchets being buried. Unfortunately, too many choose to be angry instead. 

Unfortunately converting hatred to  civility requires hard work...for those who use physical assault that is a real problem and dangerous.  It requires counsellors/youth workers who are bilingual....English and other language to help a few  who are willing to see the light. 

And for children of immigrants.... , it's a long difficult journey to get parents to let go of their prejudices. Sometimes it can be only the next generation where the  slate can be cleaner.  But then it's no different  than anyone else who harbours prejudice against their child marrying someone else very racially different or hiring someone very racially different..who could potentially be/are on equal footing with them.

[Wilbur ★]

1 hour ago, ChrisL said:

It always struck me as odd that ethnic groups who have felt persecuted & stereotyped by whites then turn & do the same thing to other ethnic groups.  

It happens all over the world.  Painting whites as the only racists is in vogue though.  When blacks were walking across the border here they were being sent around the country for resettlement.  It was the Asian immigrants in one Ontario community though that wanted the blacks gone from their town.  Racism comes in many flavours. 

[Road Runner]

I heard on the news that the POS that did the Buffalo shooting has pled not guilty. 

WTF!?!?!?

[Wilbur ★]

6 minutes ago, Road Runner said:

I heard on the news that the POS that did the Buffalo shooting has pled not guilty. 

WTF!?!?!?

They can plead what they like I guess but it won't serve him well. 

[maddmaxx ★]

1 hour ago, ChrisL said:

Many focus on white hate towards other ethnic groups but in SoCal we have a very diverse population who have some deep rooted hate towards other groups.

The Vietnamese and Cambodians have a long established hatred for each other which has spilled over here. Working as a cop in a city with a strong Vietnamese, Korean & Cambodian communities we saw many hate crimes committed by these groups against other Asian groups.  It was so prevalent we had cultural training on it.

 Many don’t realize the Blacks & Koreans have been feuding in LA for decades.  During the last LA riots many missed the fact that Korean businesses were targeted by blacks.  Hispanics and blacks have been at it for ages as well.  

It always struck me as odd that ethnic groups who have felt persecuted & stereotyped by whites then turn & do the same thing to other ethnic groups.  

"Not like me" "not my tribe" is hardwired into our survival traits from thousands of years ago.  It's very easy to slide back into those feelings for the animals known as humans.

[Road Runner]

15 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

They can plead what they like I guess but it won't serve him well. 

So you are a white supremacist and you espouse your hate to all who will listen.  Then you kill innocent people to make some kind of point.  Why would you then plead not guilty?  In your screwed up mind, you should be proud of your deeds and pretend to be a hero.  Disavowing your actions completely confirms your status as lower than dog shit.  

[ChrisL]

19 minutes ago, Road Runner said:

So you are a white supremacist and you espouse your hate to all who will listen.  Then you kill innocent people to make some kind of point.  Why would you then plead not guilty?  In your screwed up mind, you should be proud of your deeds and pretend to be a hero.  Disavowing your actions completely confirms your status as lower than dog shit.  

Could be at the advice of counsel and not how he truly feels.  As @Wilbur notes how he pleads really doesn’t change the outcome, just the process by which they will get there. 

[Wilbur ★]

34 minutes ago, Road Runner said:

So you are a white supremacist and you espouse your hate to all who will listen.  Then you kill innocent people to make some kind of point.  Why would you then plead not guilty?  In your screwed up mind, you should be proud of your deeds and pretend to be a hero.  Disavowing your actions completely confirms your status as lower than dog shit.  

I guess it has to do with a "just and fair" legal system.  Everyone knows he did it, but we have to go along with the law to get to the outcome.  As much as the guy deserved to be finished on the spot. 

[groupw]

While I’m sure it was on the advice of counsel, I also wonder if he actually does believe it. From his point of view, people of color are sub-human so did he really commit a crime? As repugnant as that viewpoint is, it’s also common among his type. 

[MickinMD ★]

I don't know if mass killing has become more acceptable in today's America or if the fact we've cut the number of mental hospital beds in half has something to do with it.

The national attitude of not just intolerance but hatred for others opinions if they differ from yours is troubling.

So is the fact that we've got more oligarchs than Russia does and they own the politicians.

[groupw]

2 hours ago, shootingstar said:

Unfortunately converting hatred to  civility requires hard work...for those who use physical assault that is a real problem and dangerous.  It requires counsellors/youth workers who are bilingual....English and other language to help a few  who are willing to see the light. 

And for children of immigrants.... , it's a long difficult journey to get parents to let go of their prejudices. Sometimes it can be only the next generation where the  slate can be cleaner.  But then it's no different  than anyone else who harbours prejudice against their child marrying someone else very racially different or hiring someone very racially different..who could potentially be/are on equal footing with them.

I think you are totally correct that the children of the immigrants assimilate into the culture much better than their parents. It’s too bad so many parents are afraid of “losing their culture” and try to keep their kids isolated from others. 
In our hometown, our kids went through much different schooling ideals. Our first 2 went to grade school in a school with many lower income and children of immigrants. We were far from wealthy but better off than many in the school. They learned compassion because those children were their friends and classmates. 
The city has 4 high schools. The largest is also the most diverse. My oldest daughter chose to go there for opportunities not available at the smaller schools. She thrived! 
The next school is where my other 2 kids went. It is public, but smaller and more homogeneous. It started as a rural high school and retains that designation despite being on land annexed by the city. Both kids got a good education and it was the right size for their personalities, but they struggled with the attitudes of kids who had never been exposed to other cultures. The good side of that is it galvanized their determination to remain open to diversity. 
The 3rd school is the Catholic high school. It tends to focus on athletics. Their diversity is limited to athletes who can benefit the school and a few successful Latino families who can afford the tuition. 
The 4th school is a recent Lutheran counterpart fo parents who want a private school without exposing them to Catholicism. It is ridiculously white! I was raised Lutheran, but the Lutheran I was raised is not the church it is today. 
The sad thing is the kids from the homogeneous schools have no idea what they don’t know about the other kids in town. They will be the leaders of the next generation of racists. 

[groupw]

I have a very good friend who lived in inner city Boston in his youth. He was on the first buses that were sent to previously all-white schools. He remembers the parents banging on the buses and yelling the “N” word at him. But he also remembers that being a turning point in his life. He says without busing he would have been another gang statistic. The new school opened his eyes to other options in life. 
Even though he benefited, he struggles with the idea of busing. He said the bus rides made for long days and he didn’t get to be a kid as much because he wasn’t home as much. But how do we get poor kids to see the wider world and how do we get privileged children to see and understand the inequities in the system? Until “us” and “them” become “we”, I don’t know how we progress. 

[shootingstar]

1 hour ago, groupw said:

I think you are totally correct that the children of the immigrants assimilate into the culture much better than their parents. It’s too bad so many parents are afraid of “losing their culture” and try to keep their kids isolated from others. 
In our hometown, our kids went through much different schooling ideals. Our first 2 went to grade school in a school with many lower income and children of immigrants. We were far from wealthy but better off than many in the school. They learned compassion because those children were their friends and classmates. 
The city has 4 high schools. The largest is also the most diverse. My oldest daughter chose to go there for opportunities not available at the smaller schools. She thrived! 
The next school is where my other 2 kids went. It is public, but smaller and more homogeneous. It started as a rural high school and retains that designation despite being on land annexed by the city. Both kids got a good education and it was the right size for their personalities, but they struggled with the attitudes of kids who had never been exposed to other cultures. The good side of that is it galvanized their determination to remain open to diversity. 
The 3rd school is the Catholic high school. It tends to focus on athletics. Their diversity is limited to athletes who can benefit the school and a few successful Latino families who can afford the tuition. 
The 4th school is a recent Lutheran counterpart fo parents who want a private school without exposing them to Catholicism. It is ridiculously white! I was raised Lutheran, but the Lutheran I was raised is not the church it is today. 
The sad thing is the kids from the homogeneous schools have no idea what they don’t know about the other kids in town. They will be the leaders of the next generation of racists. 

 When my sister went through medical school, she found a huge disconnect between her along others from a similar background: immigrant parents and low-income, compared to her classmates who were from much wealthier families. It amused her their world views and perceptions how certain problems  should be solved. She  also learned some of them barely had even held down paid summer jobs right up to med. school...that's alot of wealth in a family. She believes she didn't have the necesssary connections to get into some medical specialities... either a person has to have family /friend connections or start cold solo and aggressively develop networking skills.

Yes, absolutely my sister to support/understand my parents, especially my mother, for translation with specialist doctors and communication breakdowns, benefits greatly a sister in how she would approach various patients.

I did have some arguments with dearie at the start of  our relationship, because of what perceived, etc. But then he started to see in the cycling groups/advocacy membership in Vancouver in  early 2000's, was predominantly white (despite a huge local Asian population). I did  bitch about this to dearie .

And I bet it still is like this in certain cities, even if there are sizable local non-white population.   It was until Vancouver's biggest cycling  advocacy group (which dearie was heavily involved) started to feature marketing materials, reports and outreach programs which visibly illustrated non-white cyclists.  Yes, he did feature photos of me, for various cycling advocacy/infrastructure reports.  The cycling mode share in Metro  Vancouver now in 2020 onward does now  reflect its resident population demographic. Inclusion and participation takes a long time. Power brokers have to stop, make overtures to open the doors in event planning and listen to needs.

And here we are in 2022...what is the demographic of this forum?  What I've been trying to say, every social group, even a web forum, has cultural and language nuances that takes time to click in.    And I know if I should start a forum topic on racism, I  might well be shut down.

I think I've stuck so long  around here like bubblegum that refuses to be peeled off. 

[ChrisL]

21 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

 And here we are in 2022...what is the demographic of this forum?  What I've been trying to say, every social group, even a web forum, has cultural and language nuances that takes time to click in.    And I know if I should start a forum topic on racism, I  might well be shut down.

I think I've stuck so long  around here like bubblegum that refuses to be peeled off. 

I can only think of you and I as the only current members who are not white. Beanz is Mexican but is no longer active here.  
 

I think you have a done a good job bringing matters of race & racism to the forum. But trying to get people who don’t experience what you have is tough for them to relate. I have had my own experiences with racism but again my experiences are different and so sometimes I struggle to relate to your experiences. 

I think if racism is discussed in a non political manner it is a worthwhile discussion here.  Honestly I don’t try to educate white people I know about racism for the reasons I mentioned.  Most often they don’t/can’t relate as it doesn’t impact their day to day life.

[shootingstar]

18 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

I can only think of you and I as the only current members who are not white. Beanz is Mexican but is no longer active here.  
 

I think you have a done a good job bringing matters of race & racism to the forum. But trying to get people who don’t experience what you have is tough for them to relate. I have had my own experiences with racism but again my experiences are different and so sometimes I struggle to relate to your experiences. 

I think if racism is discussed in a non political manner it is a worthwhile discussion here.  Honestly I don’t try to educate white people I know about racism for the reasons I mentioned.  Most often they don’t/can’t relate as it doesn’t impact their day to day life.

Usually if the white person is  married to a non-white, has a non-white immediate family   (I don't mean 3 cousins removed) or has a long-time close friend which they spent lots of time together often or  works closely with a number of non-whites on a daily basis.  This is where a person might wish to understand and invest abit of some time, listen because they care about the civility / happiness of folks they know well.

After awhile, it's trying to understand what is just normal, people being great and imperfect, vs. a pattern of consistent disregard, exclusion and occasional bullying/aggression / shutdowns.

For some of my closest, long-time white friends I actually use...my blog posts to "know" this side of me.  They don't need deal immediately with my anger/disappointment. It gives them time to read, absorb. It doesn't change my loyalty to them as a great friend. Each of these white friends have voluntarily relayed a personal story of something they witnessed on the job and I believe they wanted my perspective. Which I gave as a friend.   Chris, is it so hard to understand this?   Bumping into the Personal: From Museum Exhibits to Identity, Anti-Asian Sentiment and Activism. Part 2. – Cycle Write Blog (wordpress.com)  Some personal highlights .... I'm that open now  about I've learned so far.

And still more to learn.

And to me and you all:  May is Asian-North American Heritage Month!

[ChrisL]

1 minute ago, shootingstar said:

Usually if the white person is  married to a non-white, has a non-white immediate family   (I don't mean 3 cousins removed) or has a long-time close friend which they spent lots of time together often or  works closely with a number of non-whites on a daily basis.  This is where a person might wish to understand and invest abit of some time, listen because they care about the civility / happiness of folks they know well.

After awhile, it's trying to understand what is just normal, people being great and imperfect, vs. a pattern of consistent disregard, exclusion and occasional bullying/aggression / shutdowns.

Like my wife I guess but honestly we don’t discuss racial matters or our experiences.  When I have tried to discuss racism to my MIL she just shuts it down as she doesn’t want to hear it.  Being “old south” she isn’t overtly racist but prefers the colored just stay in their area and don’t encroach in her space.

[Wilbur ★]

4 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

Usually if the white person is  married to a non-white, has a non-white immediate family   (I don't mean 3 cousins removed) or has a long-time close friend which they spent lots of time together often or  works closely with a number of non-whites on a daily basis.  This is where a person might wish to understand and invest abit of some time, listen because they care about the civility / happiness of folks they know well.

After awhile, it's trying to understand what is just normal, people being great and imperfect, vs. a pattern of consistent disregard, exclusion and occasional bullying/aggression / shutdowns.

Y'all are aware that "white people" experience racism right here in North America as well right?  If you travel the world, you get to experience it first hand, really quite frequently.  In my case, I understand the issues but fail to understand the victim mentality many adopt because of it. 

[ChrisL]

6 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Y'all are aware that "white people" experience racism right here in North America as well right?  If you travel the world, you get to experience it first hand, really quite frequently.  In my case, I understand the issues but fail to understand the victim mentality many adopt because of it. 

Do you think white people in North America experience discrimination too?

As for the victim mentality many people of color have, I guess one would have to walk a mile in their shoes to really understand. I don’t think my race has ever held me back but I also understand I have a white name and except for the color of my skin behave like a white person.

[shootingstar]

51 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Y'all are aware that "white people" experience racism right here in North America as well right?  If you travel the world, you get to experience it first hand, really quite frequently.  In my case, I understand the issues but fail to understand the victim mentality many adopt because of it. 

Wilbur I've succeeded eventually in life, so my concerns like victimization to you?  It's a long road which I sincerely believe my road is quite different from yours, especially from childhood right into early 20's. 

You get to come back to home, Canada in your rightful place in society. Perhaps you can explain why in North America upper echelons of sr. management for major national corporations are still predominantly white.  It's glacial change,  Not enough qualified candidates? Bullshit.  Lots of assimilated folks like myself, fully educated and with  years of 'Canadian work professional experience.  I guess enough of us, don't know how to kiss ass to move up the ladder.  Or we simply say sheot and just bulldoze ahead, right?  That's looks scary to those who are mediocre in expertise or slacking all along but they knew how to kiss azz.

I'm not saying I wanted it, ....since I tried and found it exhausting. (makes me wonder how Airehead handles all this). I'm hoping 1 of my bright nephews who seems to revel in his business studies, peppers his resume with right the buzz words, etc. will move along and up.  I just found a cousin's son moved into middle management.

In our organization which is a municipality....there was a rallying cry to look at more candidates for top executive management positions from diverse backgrounds. After several anti-racism local protests went to city council with their demands.

In the end, at the executive level of 10 managers, there is 1 non-white, he is Chinese-Canadian with 2 degrees, local boy with 18 years vertical upward. moving experience.  I was NOT  surprised this guy did some long distance cycling, multiple marathons and several ultramarathons.  he just sounded like a triple  AAA son of immigrant parents.   I so RELATE to his experiences and overt demonstrations of trying hard at work..and at play.  I personally know alot of kids like me.....with immigrant parents, just kick-ass to do better.

My heart  understood this guy so well..when it was announced reached at exec. level. Other employees (non-white) WANTED to see this my organization this year. It's long overdue. We're city of 1.3 million. OUr leadership has reflect the demographics of the population.

[Wilbur ★]

8 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

I guess one would have to walk a mile in their shoes to really understand

Some of us have and that is my point.  When I have had racial comments and actions hurled at me, I don't internalize it.  I think it reflects the ignorance of the offender.  Yes, In Vancouver, it is very common to to be discriminated against by the predominantly Asian citizen group.  By the same means though, Italians and  Scottish were all discriminated against at various stages in North America and not at different times than the arrival of your and SS's parents. I am very sure not many people you know and work with see you as any different than themselves.  Son of an immigrant family who has done well. We all share those successes. 

I have seen numerous comments on here about the tragic deaths of Chinese building the national railway and there is a whole lot of inaccuracy in some of the ramblings on it.  The Chinese did not arrive on slave ships.  They paid to be transported to Canada and paid to secure railway employment.  They were not made to accept dangerous jobs as even the government media clips suggest.  They volunteered for the assignments for pay and that is factual based on records. More dangerous work, higher pay.  So when todays"victims" claim it was the white man, they are propagating a racist lie.  That is where I draw the line.  

[Wilbur ★]

27 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

Do you think white people in North America experience discrimination too?

Absolutely.  

[Wilbur ★]

24 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

It's a long road which I sincerely believe my road is quite different from yours, especially from childhood right to into early 20's. 

I think you view it as different than mine but from a "victim" point of view.  That may be things you experienced but it may also be how your parents biased your interpretation. 

 

24 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

You get to come back to home, Canada in your rightful place in society. Perhaps you can explain why in North America upper echelons of sr. management for major national corporations are still predominantly white.  It's glacial change,  Not enough qualified candidates? Bullshit.  Lots of assimilated folks like myself, fully educated and with  years of 'Canadian work professional experience.  I guess enough of us, don't know how to kiss ass to move up the ladder.  Or we simply say sheot and just bulldoze ahead, right?  That's looks scary to those who are mediocre in expertise or slacking all along but they knew how to kiss azz.

Wow!  So, white people get ahead because they "kiss ass" and pepper their resumes with BS?  How about the fact that whites are still the dominant population by sheer numbers?  How about the fact that they too are educated and qualified? Every Asian friend I have has a very high power position in corporate Canada so I literally know no one that is being held back by race.  

By the way, what is my rightful place in society?  Does my Italian First Officer have a different place? 

[ChrisL]

9 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Some of us have and that is my point.  When I have had racial comments and actions hurled at me, I don't internalize it.  I think it reflects the ignorance of the offender.  Yes, In Vancouver, it is very common to to be discriminated against by the predominantly Asian citizen group.  By the same means though, Italians and  Scottish were all discriminated against at various stages in North America and not at different times than the arrival of your and SS's parents. I am very sure not many people you know and work with see you as any different than themselves.  Son of an immigrant family who has done well. We all share those successes. 

I have seen numerous comments on here about the tragic deaths of Chinese building the national railway and there is a whole lot of inaccuracy in some of the ramblings on it.  The Chinese did not arrive on slave ships.  They paid to be transported to Canada and paid to secure railway employment.  They were not made to accept dangerous jobs as even the government media clips suggest.  They volunteered for the assignments for pay and that is factual based on records. More dangerous work, higher pay.  So when todays"victims" claim it was the white man, they are propagating a racist lie.  That is where I draw the line.  

Appreciate the perspectives.  I think you know this but it’s not the popular opinion to claim white people face discrimination just as men being sexually harassed by women.   The victims always seem to be people of color & women. 

[shootingstar]

14 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Some of us have and that is my point.  When I have had racial comments and actions hurled at me, I don't internalize it.  I think it reflects the ignorance of the offender.  Yes, In Vancouver, it is very common to to be discriminated against by the predominantly Asian citizen group.  By the same means though, Italians and  Scottish were all discriminated against at various stages in North America and not at different times than the arrival of your and SS's parents. I am very sure not many people you know and work with see you as any different than themselves.  Son of an immigrant family who has done well. We all share those successes. 

I have seen numerous comments on here about the tragic deaths of Chinese building the national railway and there is a whole lot of inaccuracy in some of the ramblings on it.  The Chinese did not arrive on slave ships.  They paid to be transported to Canada and paid to secure railway employment.  They were not made to accept dangerous jobs as even the government media clips suggest.  They volunteered for the assignments for pay and that is factual based on records. More dangerous work, higher pay.  So when todays"victims" claim it was the white man, they are propagating a racist lie.  That is where I draw the line.  

 Wilbur, the railway workers probably didn't have much choice when they arrived and many may have not known their rights/known  English.  Working through someone who translated.

when you are new in any country and desperate for work, little education (these were village men from the province where my parents came), and don't know English, don't understand the power system in new country, you just take what "seems" like a good option.  No, they were paid less for their work. They wouldn't have known unless they had white locals to tell them otherwise.

It's that simple. That's what it's like not know English, not to understand the barrier's of host power hierarchical system...which in this case, is the work and pay system.  The chinese railway workers were often in steerage freight bottom of the ships, 3rd class during the long long  ocean  journey. Dirtiest, darkest part of the ship. There are archival photos. It's where they slept.

[ChrisL]

5 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Wow!  So, white people get ahead because they "kiss ass" and pepper their resumes with BS?  How about the fact that whites are still the dominant population by sheer numbers?  How about the fact that they too are educated and qualified? Every Asian friend I have has a very high power position in corporate Canada so I literally know no one that is being held back by race.  

 

I think racism is a bit more nuanced though and we have to be open to the possibility that white leaders may lean towards people more like themselves when making hiring & promotion decisions.  Just like a white person may be passed over by an Asian business looking to hire in a predominately Asian community. 

[Wilbur ★]

2 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

Appreciate the perspectives.  I think you know this but it’s not the popular opinion to claim white people face discrimination just as men being sexually harassed by women.   The victims always seem to be people of color & women. 

I do know that Chris. I work in an industry that is resetting the bar by skin color and sex rather than qualifications.  United Airlines is leading the way with their efforts to fill the seats up front with 50% visible minorities over the next 10 years.   Being that fewer than 18% of Airline Transport qualified pilots are visible minorities, there are going to be large numbers of qualified white pilots pushed aside to make way. If the goal was reflective of the population that are qualified, it would make sense. United's goal does not. 

[shootingstar]

Now, everyone can see why immigrant, low literacy parents want their children scale up through education, gain language fluency and get jobs to gain knowledge, expertise....to understand and the navigate the power structure.  Never, ever knock down college/university education for children. Never.

time for bed.

[Wilbur ★]

7 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

 Wilbur, the railway workers probably didn't have much choice when they arrived and many may have not known their rights/known  English.  Working through someone who translated.

when you are new in any country and desperate for work, little education (these were village men from the province where my parents came), and don't know English, don't understand the power system in new country, you just take what "seems" like a good option.  No, they were paid less for their work. They wouldn't have known unless they had white locals to tell them otherwise.

It's that simple. That's what it's like not know English, not to understand the barrier's of host power hierarchical system...which in this case, is the work and pay system.  The chinese railway workers were often in steerage freight bottom of the ships, 3rd class during the long long  ocean  journey. Dirtiest, darkest part of the ship. There are archival photos. It's where they slept.

Again, they were not enslaved and forced to do these things.  They paid human traffickers and smugglers from China, their own people,  to get them to Canada. The class they travelled in was what they accepted.  Most Italians, Indians, Russians, especially religious sects arrived with the same language disadvantages.  They all worked the railway. 

Now, back to my favoured position in society.  

[ChrisL]

6 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

I do know that Chris. I work in an industry that is resetting the bar by skin color and sex rather than qualifications.  United Airlines is leading the way with their efforts to fill the seats up front with 50% visible minorities over the next 10 years.   Being that fewer than 18% of Airline Transport qualified pilots are visible minorities, there are going to be large numbers of qualified white pilots pushed aside to make way. If the goal was reflective of the population that are qualified, it would make sense. United's goal does not. 

Reminds me of the time I applied for LAPD and was passed over for being “white”.  My ethnicity didn’t fit their choices of black, Hispanic or Asian and being 1/2 white I just checked white on the application.  However I didn’t realize that by doing so I negated any chance of moving past the written, oral & agility where my composite score was a 90%.   I was told to wait 90 days, reapply and for god sake check one of the boxes as you clearly are not white. 

[Wilbur ★]

3 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

Reminds me of the time I applied for LAPD and was passed over for being “white”.  My ethnicity didn’t fit their choices of black, Hispanic or Asian and being 1/2 white I just checked white on the application.  However I didn’t realize that by doing so I negated any chance of moving past the written, oral & agility where my composite score was a 90%.   I was told to wait 90 days, reapply and for god sake check one of the boxes as you clearly are not white. 

That is actually pretty funny. 

[ChrisL]

15 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

That is actually pretty funny. 

It is but I also recognize the Dept was reacting to decades of hiring practices where women & people of color were not properly represented in their ranks. 

[Wilbur ★]

1 minute ago, ChrisL said:

It is but I also recognize the Dept was reacting to decades of hiring practices where women & people of color were not properly represented in their ranks. 

Vancouver police did the same thing but due to the rapidly increasing Asian population.  Where there was an easy way in, the Asian gangs from MLC took advantage of it and the only way to penetrate Asian gangs was with Asian cops.  It also allowed better representation for all citizens.  I am all for that.  Immigration created an imbalance that had to be addressed. 

[Wilbur ★]

@ChrisL  We need more posts.  Only 6 more.  

[MoseySusan]

1 hour ago, ChrisL said:

I can only think of you and I as the only current members who are not white.

[Wilbur ★]

6 minutes ago, MoseySusan said:

Nice tan!   

[MoseySusan]

7 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Nice tan!   

I like it. It’s not a favoured position, but somehow I manage. 

[maddmaxx ★]

7 hours ago, ChrisL said:

Appreciate the perspectives.  I think you know this but it’s not the popular opinion to claim white people face discrimination just as men being sexually harassed by women.   The victims always seem to be people of color & women. 

Have you ever heard of someone being told that they are the most experienced candidate for a job but can't be hired at this time because the company is short of it's diversity goals?  I have.  Does that qualify as discrimination?

I have been fired as the goalkeeper of a Portuguese club soccer team because the club elders insisted that their keeper should be Portuguese.

Having gone to a private and very white school for my last two years of high school the greatest learning experience for me was joining the navy.

 

[Square Wheels]

10 hours ago, MickinMD said:

I don't know if mass killing has become more acceptable in today's America

When we as a nation failed to respond to Sandy Hook where 28 people were slaughtered, mostly children, I lost all hope in us as a civil society.

[maddmaxx ★]

2 hours ago, maddmaxx said:

Have you ever heard of someone being told that they are the most experienced candidate for a job but can't be hired at this time because the company is short of it's diversity goals?  I have.  Does that qualify as discrimination?

I have been fired as the goalkeeper of a Portuguese club soccer team because the club elders insisted that their keeper should be Portuguese.

Having gone to a private and very white school for my last two years of high school the greatest learning experience for me was joining the navy.

 

None of this qualifies as the sort of discrimination that our minorities face every day however.

[Airehead]

Such tough times. 

[Road Runner]

I blame the internet in some ways.  Before the net, kooks and insane people were isolated.  They were, for the most part, alone with their insane thoughts.

But then along comes the internet, and thirty or forty nutjobs can get together and reinforce each other and their crazy ideas.  Even just a few other people, believing the same crap but backing each other up on the net, can be a huge support for the crazies among us and can provide them validation, even for the most heinous of ideas and actions.   

[BuffJim]

22 minutes ago, Road Runner said:

I blame the internet in some ways.  Before the net, kooks and insane people were isolated.  They were, for the most part, alone with their insane thoughts.

But then along comes the internet, and thirty or forty nutjobs can get together and reinforce each other and their crazy ideas.  Even just a few other people, believing the same crap but backing each other up on the net, can be a huge support for the crazies among us and can provide them validation, even for the most heinous of ideas and actions.   

This, plus video games that basically teach kids how to shoot up a place, or steal cars. Also many of the mass shooters, especially the young ones are on prescription mood altering drugs. @Airehead is right. Tough times. 
Daughter’s boyfriend is freaked out. He’s half black, but raised in white schools and with a white mother. BuffCarla is heartbroken, this was literally her stomping grounds, but carrying on. 

[Road Runner]

1 minute ago, BuffJim said:

This, plus video games that basically teach kids how to shoot up a place, or steal cars.

Excellent point.  I think about this a lot.  During most of their non-school hours, most of the kids in my neighborhood stay indoors playing video games, many of which are probably full of violent and deadly action.  It is one thing to see people get killed on TV or in the movies, but quite another to "play" video games where the player actually performs the mass killings themselves.  It seems we are training a whole generation to be assassins. 

[ChrisL]

1 hour ago, maddmaxx said:

None of this qualifies as the sort of discrimination that our minorities face every day however.

Yeah I think there is a bigger discussion on race & all forms of discrimination & then the BS that many of color just have to deal with for looking a certain way.

I have commented here about a time in a fly shop in Idaho where the proprietors refused to acknowledge me. Looked right through me like I wasn’t even talking to them and wouldn’t take my business.  My two cousins with the exact same ethnic make up but having a higher % of Dutch so are white where acknowledged and helped.  

I wonder if the proprietors knew their dad looked like me it would have mattered to them.

[Airehead]

3 hours ago, BuffJim said:

This, plus video games that basically teach kids how to shoot up a place, or steal cars. Also many of the mass shooters, especially the young ones are on prescription mood altering drugs. @Airehead is right. Tough times. 
Daughter’s boyfriend is freaked out. He’s half black, but raised in white schools and with a white mother. BuffCarla is heartbroken, this was literally her stomping grounds, but carrying on. 

I have been thinking of BuffCarla.  So close to her family and memories.