I Was Thinking That Honda Made A Mistake

[Razors Edge ★]

...in building their cars too well, as, while they have me as a customer, they don't have me as a returning customer.  IOW, they got my business in 2003, but as long as the Accord (and Civic) keeps going, they're not getting me back in the door to buy new.

Today's story - that for the fifth year in a row, average age is going up - sort of indicates many folks are thinking the same way. Maybe not @jsharr, but the rest of us???

The Average Age of Vehicles on U.S. Roadways Hits a Record 12.2 Years

Drivers are holding on to cars and trucks longer to avoid high prices on replacements and an inventory shortage at dealerships

The average age of vehicles on U.S. roadways edged higher in 2021, hitting a record of 12.2 years, as Americans challenged by high car prices and slim pickings on dealer lots held on to cars longer.

This was the fifth straight year the average vehicle age in the U.S. has increased, according to new data released Monday by research firm S&P Global Mobility.

Vehicles on average have been getting older in the U.S. for the past two decades as quality has improved and cars generally are lasting longer, analysts say.

During the pandemic, the trend has only accelerated, largely because of a computer-chip shortage that has curbed factory output and left dealership lots bare, S&P Global Mobility said.

With car supplies constrained, prices have also soared on both new and used vehicles, resulting in more shoppers choosing to delay purchases. The average vehicle age crossed 12 years for the first time in 2020, the firm found.

“You can’t find a replacement for a reasonable cost,” said Todd Campau, associate director of aftermarket solutions at S&P Global Mobility.

With drivers hanging on to vehicles longer, the percentage of cars and trucks scrapped—or taken out of use—each year fell to a two-decade low of 4.2% in 2021, according to S&P Global Mobility.

[Razors Edge ★]

As an aside, my wife has opened up the possibility of looking at a Mazda, but she wants a back seat, so that leaves just the Mazda 3 as an option, and since a manual transmission is a requirement, there is NO inventory of those in the US.  Jeebus, this may make Petite's shopping look lightning quick!

[Allen ★]

35 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

As an aside, my wife has opened up the possibility of looking at a Mazda, but she wants a back seat, so that leaves just the Mazda 3 as an option, and since a manual transmission is a requirement, there is NO inventory of those in the US.  Jeebus, this may make Petite's shopping look lightning quick!

 

[Razors Edge ★]

11 minutes ago, Allen said:

 

We know a few folks here who might be scratching their heads and thinking just about now 

[TrentonMakes]

My Accord is just about 8, still young at 98K miles.  I had my 2000 Jetta for about 8-1/2 years and that's my record.

I honestly have zero desire to get rid of the Accord - it will hold (and obliterate!) that record soon enough.

The body has scratches and dings and a few spots of tree sap... and some of the rim surfaces are starting to corrode.  So it's not all that much to look at, but it's got a roof rack for three bikes, iPod connection (which I still use), great gas mileage, no touch screen display, and of course, three pedals.  You are right - Honda built a product so good there's no need for me to be a returning customer.

[Razors Edge ★]

6 minutes ago, TrentonMakes said:

The body has scratches and dings and a few spots of tree sap... and some of the rim surfaces are starting to corrode.  So it's not all that much to look at, but it's got a roof rack for three bikes, iPod connection (which I still use), great gas mileage, no touch screen display, and of course, three pedals.  You are right - Honda built a product so good there's no need for me to be a returning customer.

My wife's Civic has been hit at some point on all four sides with several panels replaced over the years.  It is a great city car, as you don't mind parking it in street parking, but she doesn't like to drive it if she will be taking people somewhere.  My car is bigger, in better looking shape, and more "comfortable", so that get's the job done. I recently replaced (really, just bypassed) the original radio as the CD played died.  The new cheap system plugged in easily and had BT, USB, and line-in, so it is pretty much super flexible. I use the SiruisXM app a lot via my phone & BT, or will listen to podcasts. The Accord also has a trailer hitch for my bike rack

Both have aging issues - rust on the front of the Accord's hood, lots of random dings and scratches, AC that needs a boost every couple years, and now a slow oil leak in the Accord.  Getting older sucks.

[Ralphie ★]

Don’t worry. The paint and body and interior have been cheapened over the years to reduce durability. 

[TrentonMakes]

7 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

and now a slow oil leak in the Accord. 

Unfortunately I'm seeing this too... one of the only disappointments.  I feel like 100K miles is too young for a Honda to be noticeably using oil.

[Ralphie ★]

Just now, TrentonMakes said:

Unfortunately I'm seeing this too... one of the only disappointments.  I feel like 100K miles is too young for a Honda to be noticeably using oil.

Oil retention has been tough for old Hondas.  That stuff is slippery and loves to get away!

[Bikeguy]

31 minutes ago, Philander Seabury said:

Oil retention has been tough for old Hondas.

WoBG's 1997 Honda Prelude had a slow oil leak from the engine.   When I had them replace the timing belt, I also had them fix the 2 (or3) oil leaks.

2 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

but the rest of us???

WoBG wants to keep her 25 year old Honda Prelude with 95K on the odometer.  <<<  This is a record for us for age.   

Over the years... my 93 Dodge Intrepid had 251K miles over 8 years.   A 1985 Chevy Citation had 351K miles over 14 years.   My 2005 Prius had 261K miles over 11 years.

The 12 year old 2010 Subaru Forest  (76K miles) we have is not getting replaced anytime soon.   It appears to need some refrigerant for the A/C.  That's a new issue.  

my 6 year old 2016 Prius (76K miles) works just fine.

No new cars for us for a while.   My present fleet has an average age of 14.3 years.

[Razors Edge ★]

28 minutes ago, Philander Seabury said:

Oil retention has been tough for old Hondas.  That stuff is slippery and loves to get away!

It eventually killed our 86 CRX which we thought was ANCIENT when it died in 03 (hence the Civic for my wife).  It was needing oil added for YEARS, and after a while, we lost the battle to stay ahead of the curve   What an awesome car.  INSANELY fun to drive, but I wouldn't want to crash in one!

7 minutes ago, Bikeguy said:

WoBG wants to keep her 25 year old Honda Prelude.

It's paid for itself, so she could/should keep it as her "weekend" or nice weather car.

[12string]

2 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

Vehicles on average have been getting older in the U.S. for the past two decades as quality has improved and cars generally are lasting longer, analysts say.

But the rest of it was all about this being the result of shortages.

 

And i still hear people go on about "they don't make 'em like they used to" and how there's this conspiracy of planned obsolescence so you'll buy cars more often.

[Kzoo]

I had an Accord that had over 200,000k on it and a Civic 50 miles short of 250,000k and neither ever lost a drop of oil.

[Bikeguy]

32 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

It's paid for itself, so she could/should keep it as her "weekend" or nice weather car.

It is a 'nice weather' car.  It has been for many years now.   That's how it has lasted 25 years with no rust.    The interior is in great shape too.

WoBG drives the Subaru in the winter.   Before the Subaru she drove the Land Rover in the winter.

[dinneR ★]

37 minutes ago, Bikeguy said:

 A 1985 Chevy Citation had 351K miles over 14 years.   

unpossible

[Kzoo]

7 minutes ago, dinneR said:

unpossible

agreed

[dinneR ★]

2 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

agreed

I checked the Guinness Book of World Records and 20k is the record for a Citation.

[jsharr ★]

22 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

I had an Accord that had over 200,000k on it and a Civic 50 miles short of 250,000k and neither ever lost a drop of oil.

Our Kia has not used a drop in close to a year.

[Bikeguy]

7 minutes ago, dinneR said:

unpossible

The engine and transmission just kept going and going....   I did change the oil every 3K in the engine and every30K in the transmission.  

The paint...  I had to sand down the rust and I pained the car with many cans of spray primer.  

I spent a LOT of money keeping the car moving.  That was still cheaper than a new car. 

The best part...  when we purchased the 99 Land Rover.  We almost the deal done, then I told the sales guy I'm trading a Chevy Citation.  He asked to see the car.  I told him it was 95 miles away in my driveway.  I explained the condition of the car, etc...  he offered $100.  I told him 'sold'.

[dinneR ★]

1 minute ago, Bikeguy said:

The engine and transmission just kept going and going....   I did change the oil every 3K in the engine and every30K in the transmission.  

The paint...  I had to sand down the rust and I pained the car with many cans of spray primer.  

I spent a LOT of money keeping the car moving.  That was still cheaper than a new car. 

The best part...  when we purchased the 99 Land Rover.  We almost the deal done, then I told the sales guy I'm trading a Chevy Citation.  He asked to see the car.  I told him it was 95 miles away in my driveway.  I explained the condition of the car, etc...  he offered $100.  I told him 'sold'.

$100 is awesome for that car. I got $25 for my '78 Datsun B210.

Both of those cars in the book crap cars. The Datsun is #25 and I think the Citation is #16

[jsharr ★]

2 minutes ago, dinneR said:

$100 is awesome for that car. I got $25 for my '78 Datsun B210.

Both of those cars in the book crap cars. The Datsun is #25 and I think the Citation is #16

Did you mean to use $ instead of #? 

[Bikeguy]

13 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

agreed

From my 1999 spreadsheet for tracking business use of my cars and gas millage.  The foratting got bad.    OMG... I just noticed the $/gallon the far right column.

March 1999			Citation 1985 3/15/85
		job miles		349,595.2	gasoline records
--------------------------------------------------------------				---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DAY	start	finish	miles	miles	gallons	cost	MPG	$/gal
9			0.0	349,696.5	5.753	$5.00	17.6	0.869
24			0.0	349,821.8	6.360	$6.80	19.7	1.069
			-----	--------	------	-------	---	--------
		totals==>	0.0	226.6	12.113	$11.80	18.7	0.974
% miles on the job==>			0.00%
March 1999		Totals	2657.0	4,821.6	203.146	$209.75	23.7	1.033
% miles on the job==>			55.11%
April 1999			Honda - 12/16/96
		job miles		16,055.0	gasoline records
--------------------------------------------------------------				---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DAY	start	finish	miles	miles	gallons	cost	MPG	$/gal
2			0.0	16,192.0	6.307	$7.75	21.7	1.229
15			0.0	16,285.0	4.793	$5.70	19.4	1.189
16			0.0	16,439.0	6.646	$7.90	23.2	1.189
18			0.0	16,576.0	5.765	$6.85	23.8	1.188
26			0.0	16,766.0	8.484	$10.00	22.4	1.179
			-----	--------	------	-------	---	--------
		totals==>	0.0	711.0	31.995	$38.20	22.2	1.194
% miles on the job==>			0.00%
April 1999			Intrepid 93 - 7/13/93
		job miles		211,253.0	gasoline records
--------------------------------------------------------------				---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DAY	start	finish	miles	miles	gallons	cost	MPG	$/gal
1	211258.0	211276.0	18.0
2	211276.0	211294.0	18.0
5	211294.0	211312.0	18.0	211,469.0	9.121	$9.75	23.7	1.069
6	211312.0	211387.0	75.0
7	211387.0	211580.0	193.0
8	211580.0	211785.0	205.0	211,744.0	10.666	$11.40	25.8	1.069
9	211785.0	211913.0	128.0
10			0.0	212,019.0	10.623	$11.25	25.9	1.059
12	212033.0	212261.0	228.0	212,268.0	10.103	$10.70	24.6	1.059
13	212261.0	212481.0	220.0	212,483.0	8.118	$8.60	26.5	1.059
14	212481.0	212676.0	195.0	212,721.0	8.643	$9.15	27.5	1.059
15	212676.0	212788.0	112.0	212,839.0	5.193	$5.40	22.7	1.040
16	212788.0	212986.0	198.0	213,067.0	8.700	$10.00	26.2	1.149
16			0.0	213,230.0	5.675	$5.90	28.7	1.040
19	213246.0	213371.0	125.0	213,381.0	5.870	$6.10	25.7	1.039
20	213371.0	213499.0	128.0
21	213499.0	213517.0	18.0	213,536.0	6.265	$6.45	24.7	1.030
22	213517.0	213720.0	203.0
23	213720.0	213850.0	130.0	213,860.0	12.583	$12.95	25.7	1.029
24			0.0	214,248.0	13.788	$14.05	28.1	1.019
26	214310.0	214521.0	211.0	214,537.0	10.648	$10.85	27.1	1.019
27	214521.0	214729.0	208.0	214,735.0	7.360	$7.50	26.9	1.019
28	214729.0	214941.0	212.0	214,945.0	7.859	$7.85	26.7	0.999
29	214941.0	214959.0	18.0
30	215024.0	215042.0	18.0	215,047.0	4.445	$4.40	22.9	0.990
			-----	--------	------	-------	---	--------
		totals==>	2879.0	3,794.0	145.660	$152.30	26.0	1.046
% miles on the job==>			75.88%
April 1999			Citation 1985 3/15/85 --- Land Rover 4/7/99
		job miles		349,821.8	gasoline records
--------------------------------------------------------------				---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DAY	start	finish	miles	miles	gallons	cost	MPG	$/gal
7	350061.1	350164.0	102.9	350,137.5	1.756	$2.00		1.139
7	Land Rover		Start Milage	99.0
7	99.0	189.0	90.0	188.0	8.506	$10.20	10.5	1.199
17			0.0	271.0	5.760	$6.85	14.4	1.189
18			0.0	431.0	8.961	$12.00	17.9	1.339
18			0.0	588.0	10.302	$12.25	15.2	1.189
			-----	--------	------	-------	---	--------
		totals==>	192.9	804.7	35.285	$43.30	22.8	1.227
% miles on the job==>			23.97%

[Bikeguy]

11 minutes ago, dinneR said:

$100 is awesome for that car. I got $25 for my '78 Datsun B210.

Both of those cars in the book crap cars. The Datsun is #25 and I think the Citation is #16

Even better... 

The day I picked up the Land Rover.  I had a business meeting at a customer site, maybe 5 miles from the LR dealer.  So that day I drove the Cititation on the job one last time.

After the meeting, my boss attended the meeting too, we had a discussion about the meeting in the parking lot.  Then he asked.  "Is that your car?"   I told him, 'Yes...  I need a raise to buy a new car.'

He didn't need to know about the new LR.  I drove the 93 Dodge Intrepid (that had 215K miles on it) on the job. 

 

[MickinMD ★]

My life's cars after college, bought new, were 1977, 1985, 1997, 2013.  The first three I was working and there was no pandemic and I put a lot of miles on them.  The bought-Jan-8-2013 Fit had 55704 miles on it and only 1387 for 2022 when I got gas this morning: the first gas since 4/26 and the first time I paid over $4/gallon: $4.599.

It should last me until around 2030 when I turn 80.  My next car will surely be my last and I want to it have all the safety and driver-assist stuff available then at a reasonable price.  If a good recharge network is set up by then, I'll get an electric car, else a hybrid.