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Another senseless school shooting


Airehead

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10 minutes ago, Road Runner said:

And just as much access to guns.

I’m not sure that’s accurate. There’s been escalating sales of guns and ammo over the past decade or so.

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According to new figures from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), the manufacture of firearms has tripled in two decades

 

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In the TV report I just saw, the on-site reporter broke down and started crying when telling the story of the group of parents who had arrived to pick up their children, but their children weren't being escorted out to them, as other parent's children were.

  

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YOu can't have both.  No, not really. Even legislated access to guns by right people and proper safe procedures. Plus expect country of millions of people, not to have frequent shootings.

It's expecting majority of population follows procedures, is rational and is continuously trained. That's expecting too much of population.

1 hour ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

I’m not sure that’s accurate. There’s been escalating sales of guns and ammo over the past decade or so.

 

:( 

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1 hour ago, dinneR said:

Heard this from a teacher today. They did active shooter training in school today.

Our country has 5% of the World’s population. Our country has 43% of all the guns on Earth

At the request of a sheriff and Marshall we had an active shooter lock out incident last week. Turns out there was no shooter and no one was targeting the lilac festival but when a guy with a badge asks you to secure your students, you do it. 

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I heard a parent interview. Her child wasn’t brought to the reunification center. She doesn’t know if the child is dead or hospitalized. Can you even imagine hoping your child is hospitalized as the best option?

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13 minutes ago, Airehead said:

At the request of a sheriff and Marshall we had an active shooter lock out incident last week. Turns out there was no shooter and no one was targeting the lilac festival but when a guy with a badge asks you to secure your students, you do it. 

I think they do more active shooter drills than fire or disaster drills now. 

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1 hour ago, dinneR said:

Heard this from a teacher today. They did active shooter training in school today.

Our country has 5% of the World’s population. Our country has 43% of all the guns on Earth

In theory, if we can just get more guns into people's hands, we'll be good.  It's just a math problem.

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23 minutes ago, dinneR said:

I think they do more active shooter drills than fire or disaster drills now. 

Agreed. This one wasn’t a drill for them. Reports of a guy with a rifle. Our school is next to the grounds of the festival. Turns out the guy had been fired and was disgruntled but social media blew it up to a shooter. He was not running down Scottsville Road with a gun. 
 

CHILI N.Y. — Law enforcement from across Monroe County raced to Scottsville Road in Chili Friday morning for the report of a possible active shooter. It turned out to be a false call.

Sheriff Todd Baxter was one of the first deputies on scene. He says when he heard the call over his radio, he instantly imagined the worst.

"That horrific massacre that occurred last week [in Buffalo], that’s in the back of the minds. What I saw is deputies and officers from the Gates Police Department and troopers running through a door and I'm sure in the back of their mind was Buffalo and what are they going to encounter on the other side of the door," Baxter said. 

The RG&E building and the FBI were evacuated and for two hours, officers, some with K-9s, searched each floor before determining there was no threat. Scottsville Road was shut down during the investigation. 

The concern stemmed from a group chat among Rochester Gas & Electric employees on a message app that escalated after a coworker was let go. Over time, the story became exacerbated, Baxter said. The employee was never even on the property Friday.

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I don’t get why more resources are put into Staffing school resource officers and even armed security at schools.  Nobody wants a shoot out in a school but a police unit continuously parked out front may serve as a deterrent. Armed guards posted at access points will deter most active shooters or at the very least the exchange of gunfire will serve as a warning. 

My kids district had one resource officer for two HS & none for elementary.  

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1 hour ago, Razors Edge said:

In theory, if we can just get more guns into people's hands, we'll be good.  It's just a math problem.

Presumably this remark was just facetious, Razor? But unfortunately reasoning used by some folks.

One should always be careful about disgruntled folks. Dearie knew this bike shop owner just down the street. Bike shop owner was shot by a former bike shop employer. Amazingly the shooter jumped on his bike afterwards but of course the police cornered him.  Yes, it made national headlines..an accident in a nice area of town. At the time incident there was an off-duty physician from a clinic nearby who was able to provide life-saving care until ambulance came. (Hospital is 1 km. away.) Dearie used to tell me how bikeshop owner appeared to him after he recovered...well it took almost a yr.

Gerald Battersby talked about suicide before Yaletown shootings, ex-boss says | CBC News

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1 hour ago, ChrisL said:

I don’t get why more resources are put into Staffing school resource officers and even armed security at schools.  Nobody wants a shoot out in a school but a police unit continuously parked out front may serve as a deterrent. Armed guards posted at access points will deter most active shooters or at the very least the exchange of gunfire will serve as a warning. 

My kids district had one resource officer for two HS & none for elementary.  

If we had done more in terms of gun control, yes, add resource officers. We have done very little on the gun control side. We continue to do nothing to protect our children in schools. That's absurd. 

This should bother every person in this nation. We are training teachers to drop kids out of windows instead of having them teach math. 

 

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21 minutes ago, dinneR said:

If we had done more in terms of gun control, yes, add resource officers. We have done very little on the gun control side. We continue to do nothing to protect our children in schools. That's absurd. 

This should bother every person in this nation. We are training teachers to drop kids out of windows instead of having them teach math. 

 

But we haven’t, sweeping gun control is not coming anytime soon and these mass shootings continue to happen.

So why not invest in infrastructure to “harden the target”.  I know my kids schools did some preventive measures to control access but not enough to prevent a shooter.  My kids HS was a sieve and did lock down once.  And I'm not just saying put armed guards at every school. A lot can be done to make it harder to breach a school in progress.  But how many guys like me do school districts employ?

But also consider this, If B of A can put an armed guard in damn near every bank branch across America why can’t school districts put guards in schools?

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4 hours ago, ChrisL said:

sweeping gun control is not coming

I think some serious reflection on “why not” is needed. I know why you are saying this, but we’ve spent decades throwing our hands in the air saying oh well. So it should surprise no one that these shootings keep happening.

4 hours ago, ChrisL said:

why can’t school districts put guards in schools?

Didn’t the resource officer at Stowman Douglas school in Parkland, Fla. hide during the shooting? A former police deputy who is now facing charges of child endangerment for failing to do exactly what you propose. And remember, it’s not just schools, it’s grocery stores, movie theaters, parks, Churches, army bases, almost anywhere imaginable. Because the guns are ubiquitous and we’re only softened carrying laws recently. 

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How did the shooter get in?  I thought that schools had pretty tight access control these days.

Both recent ones were young ,men.  Maybe we should take the incomplete development of the teenage brian into account, like we do for voting.

I keep thinking of the grocery store guard that shot the shooter but the shooter had a bullet proof vest on. :(

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This asshole had a vest on too but a border guard killed him, I guess with a head shot. I just read a story in the San Antonio news that said police tried to engage him before he entered the school with an ar gun. How the hell does that happen?  I would think he would be shot dead before he enters a school with an assault rifle in front of police officers. I would certainly expect nothing less. Even if the weapon was concealed he is snot entering the school I would think. 

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7 minutes ago, Philander Seabury said:

This asshole had a vest on too but a border guard killed him, I guess with a head shot. I just read a story in the San Antonio news that said police tried to engage him before he entered the school with an ar gun. How the hell does that happen?  I would think he would be shot dead before he enters a school with an assault rifle in front of police officers. I would certainly expect nothing less. Even if the weapon was concealed he is snot entering the school I would think. 

I have a hard time entering a school here and everyone knows me.  Hell, I have coached multiple sports teams and have a hard time getting in somewhere.  

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6 hours ago, ChrisL said:

But we haven’t, sweeping gun control is not coming anytime soon and these mass shootings continue to happen.

So why not invest in infrastructure to “harden the target”.  I know my kids schools did some preventive measures to control access but not enough to prevent a shooter.  My kids HS was a sieve and did lock down once.  And I'm not just saying put armed guards at every school. A lot can be done to make it harder to breach a school in progress.  But how many guys like me do school districts employ?

But also consider this, If B of A can put an armed guard in damn near every bank branch across America why can’t school districts put guards in schools?

Train more folks to be prepared to enter into a fire fight?????  I'd hate to be a delivery man reaching into my pocket for a stick of gum.

Just my opinion but I don't think raising the bar on armed citizens prepared to shoot someone is really the direction to go.  I once held a position in security where I had permission to shoot people if I thought it was necessary.........not because someone told me to but because "I" thought I should.  I cannot imagine a situation where thousands of armed people had that decision making power every day.  "I thought he had a gun" is already a problem.

It's a shame on this country, but without some serious gun control you might as well get used to the shootings.

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1 hour ago, Parr8hed said:

I have a hard time entering a school here and everyone knows me.  Hell, I have coached multiple sports teams and have a hard time getting in somewhere.  

Really!  This asshole had apparently crashed his car at the school and walks into it with an AR in front of police?  Something is snot adding up here. Maybe their encounter with him was before this and was somewhere else. 

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When Sandy Hook happened, I cried.  Just thinking of it, I'm getting weepy.

I thought as a silver lining, we'd finally take action, after all, it was one of the most horrific things our country had ever endured.

We did nothing.

No citizen needs a gun, I know that's an unpopular statement, but I've said it before, I've managed to live almost 58 years with the need to a gun for protection.

These innocent children did not need to be slaughtered.

Shame on us as a nation.

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I haven’t really understood if he used a handgun or assault rifle. But I guess the real issue is he was an unstable teenager. You can’t vote until 21 or rent a car until 25. Buying assault rifles at 18 with minimal if any background checks just does not seem right. I wonder how the guy who sold it to him along with a mountain of ammo feels any remorse?

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It is a difficult thing to wrap your head around and I don't agree with either r the pro-gun or no-gun crowds.  "Guns don't kill people" is a fact but it negates the fact that guns make it a lot easier to kill a lot of people. 

I blame societal culture in the US along with ease of access but I am an outsider with little more than a half-baked opinion.  

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7 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

It is a difficult thing to wrap your head around and I don't agree with either r the pro-gun or no-gun crowds.  "Guns don't kill people" is a fact but it negates the fact that guns make it a lot easier to kill a lot of people. 

I blame societal culture in the US along with ease of access but I am an outsider with little more than a half-baked opinion.  

The fps games make a great theory but the evidence doesn’t seem to support it. I can see someone being enraged aboot something, hell, I think we are all enraged aboot this shooting, but to shoot up a school is just unfathonable. Sort of like shooting up a neighboring country for no good reason. :( 

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1 minute ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

You can vote and join the military at age 18.

Texas recently changed laws to allow for handgun carry without permit or training. 

Oops, I guess I meant drink. More relevant anyhoo since it can aid you in doing stoopid things. 

I am glad I live in a state that is snot so permissive. Open carry would really freak me oot. 

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Oh, more details, the two cops were both hit in a shootout with the shooter. And the border control guy rushed in withoot backup and was hit. He probably saved a bunch of lives. This shows how unhinged the shooter was that he was wearing armor. Don’t most idiots like this realize they are going to die or spend their life in prison, so why bother with the body armor?  Maybe just to buy time so they can kill more people.  Good his grandmother lived. 

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6 hours ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

 

Didn’t the resource officer at Stowman Douglas school in Parkland, Fla. hide during the shooting? A former police deputy who is now facing charges of child endangerment for failing to do exactly what you propose. And remember, it’s not just schools, it’s grocery stores, movie theaters, parks, Churches, army bases, almost anywhere imaginable. Because the guns are ubiquitous and we’re only softened carrying laws recently. 

He sure did but does one example where it didn’t work negate the whole concept of investing more towards resource officers? I’d also make the point that many churches, grocery stores (not so much movie theaters) are investing in measures to protect their patrons. Are schools taking the same measures?

A firm I worked for provided security for the Yeshiva Center & Museum of Tolerance in LA.  A few miles away the Skirball Center was targeted by a gunman who killed several people.  After he was captured he told police he surveyed the Yeshiva Center and could tell Security was too tight so he targeted the Skirball Center that had less security.

Taking active measures to secure a location can & does work. It just costs money to do so.  Often times active security measures are hard to quantify as when they do work nothing happens.    

I would like to see more of a movement to this end and hopefully see fewer school shootings in the headlines.

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16 hours ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

I’m not sure that’s accurate. There’s been escalating sales of guns and ammo over the past decade or so.

 

If this can be believed, gun ownership has stayed steady at around 43% since 1972.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/249740/percentage-of-households-in-the-united-states-owning-a-firearm/

I tend to blame the internet, video games and the changes in our culture for this senseless violence, but if that is true, it should be true worldwide, not just in America, so maybe easy access to guns that exists here really is the problem.  If it is, I will gladly surrender my guns, but with the hundreds of millions of guns that are out there, and the easy access to ammo, not sure what the solution is.

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35 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

He sure did but does one example where it didn’t work negate the whole concept of investing more towards resource officers? I’d also make the point that many churches, grocery stores (not so much movie theaters) are investing in measures to protect their patrons. Are schools taking the same measures?

A firm I worked for provided security for the Yeshiva Center & Museum of Tolerance in LA.  A few miles away the Skirball Center was targeted by a gunman who killed several people.  After he was captured he told police he surveyed the Yeshiva Center and could tell Security was too tight so he targeted the Skirball Center that had less security.

Taking active measures to secure a location can & does work. It just costs money to do so.  Often times active security measures are hard to quantify as when they do work nothing happens.    

I would like to see more of a movement to this end and hopefully see fewer school shootings in the headlines.

Based on the school guards I've see around here they would be shot before realizing that the last person through the door wasn't a parent looking to pick up a sick child.

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7 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

Based on the school guards I've see around here they would be shot before realizing that the last person through the door wasn't a parent looking to pick up a sick child.

I get it, but you are focusing on just one aspect of my point.  There is a lot that can be done other than armed guards and I’m really in favor of more School Resource officers than armed guards anyway. 

But I guess we’ll just settle for prayers & condolences instead…

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18 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

I get it, but you are focusing on just one aspect of my point.  There is a lot that can be done other than armed guards and I’m really in favor of more School Resource officers than armed guards anyway. 

But I guess we’ll just settle for prayers & condolences instead…

ChrisL, I would appoint  you to handle the problem if I had any stick. :D

 

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1 hour ago, jsharr said:

If this can be believed, gun ownership has stayed steady at around 43% since 1972.

Ok, so the same people are buying up the additional gun sales. And it’s probably a subset of the whole doing the majority of the buying.

 

1 hour ago, jsharr said:

with the hundreds of millions of guns that are out there, and the easy access to ammo, not sure what the solution is.

When I read of loosening of state gun laws, I wonder if this is the will of the majority of the people, or instead laws driven by the extreme fringe positions but have found a friendly legislative body to enact? I know what the most vocal of advocates say, but I’m not sure what the  majority think with strong enough conviction to base a vote on.

 

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5 hours ago, Square Wheels said:

When Sandy Hook happened, I cried. 

I remember doing the same... I'd just pulled into a store to do some Christmas shopping, and I thought about parents who maybe already had bought gifts for those kids, and how Christmas would probably be a tragic season for the rest of their lives.

This kind of thing keeps on happening, and nothing changes.  I don't know what else to say about this.

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I read a good article in the la times that said that red flag laws would have the most affect. Guns are everywhere and aren’t going away.  How is this making y RHhreats in the internet any different than someone calling in a bomb threat or even saying bomb in an airport like Ben stiller did?  Boom, they get pounced on. Post a threat to shoot up a school and the same should happen. Sure, there will be a lot of false positives but still seems worthwhile. 

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2 hours ago, ChrisL said:

He sure did but does one example where it didn’t work negate the whole concept of investing more towards resource officers?

This school did have armed school police who engaged the shooter to no avail. While I like this idea better than arming teachers, I think a bigger solution is called for, because as both you and I mentioned, this isn’t limited to schools. 

 

2 hours ago, ChrisL said:

many churches, grocery stores (not so much movie theaters) are investing in measures to protect their patrons.

We have a gun problem, not just a school security problem.

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20 minutes ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

This school did have armed school police who engaged the shooter to no avail. While I like this idea better than arming teachers, I think a bigger solution is called for, because as both you and I mentioned, this isn’t limited to schools. 

 

We have a gun problem, not just a school security problem.

Agreed, but counting on our govt officials to address this issue hasn’t worked and likely not going to…

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