Popular Post jsharr ★ Posted May 25, 2022 Popular Post Share #1 Posted May 25, 2022 The thread about addiction, or alcohol or whatever got me thinking. I do not deal well with stress. I internalize too much and one of my biggest coping mechanisms is eating. I know all this, but I still do it. I believe this is what led me to be a type II diabetic, even when I was very active. I controlled it well for over a decade. If I am being honest, this place is also one of my escapes and coping mechanisms and I should probably think about that as well. Lately, my activity level has dropped and my stress level has gone up and with it, my weight and A1c. Last Dr. appt, my doc recommended I go on insulin. This was a huge wake up call. A1C was 8.9 . I immediately began some introspection and have almost entirely cut out snacking. No between meal snacking at work and almost none after dinner before bed. Weekends are hardest. Also, my insurance denied the fast acting insulin and the glucose monitor I was prescribed, and with just the dietary changes above and a slight increase in activity, but not much, I have lowered by readings from the low 200s to the mid 100s in just two weeks. For the last three days, I have been in the 140s. I did have a snack of air popped popcorn last night while watching the Mavs game, and got a reading of 150 this AM. My avg reading since I really started checking consistently on the 13th of this month has dropped from 200 to 174. Sorry for the rambling. Just needed to vent a bit. Still mad at myself for ignoring my own health and trying to comfort myself with things that harm me. 2 1 4 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddmaxx ★ Posted May 25, 2022 Share #2 Posted May 25, 2022 Keep it up as better late than never. I did the same with smoking after 30 years when I finally quit back in the early 90's Who knows if I lengthened my life or not. You can do this if you want to. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post jsharr ★ Posted May 25, 2022 Author Popular Post Share #3 Posted May 25, 2022 BTW, the drop from readings around 200 to around 140 equates to an A1c of 8.9 to around 6.7. 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petitepedal ★ Posted May 25, 2022 Share #4 Posted May 25, 2022 I am trying to lower my cholesterol..and trying hard..so I'm with ya in the fight. Have ya though about trying meditation? Dan Harris formerly of ABC ...has a couple of basic books..and a practical app. I mean getting minime helped my stress..but I think meditation also helped. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphie ★ Posted May 25, 2022 Share #5 Posted May 25, 2022 13 minutes ago, jsharr said: If I am being honest, this place is also one of my escapes and coping mechanisms and I should probably think about that as well. I would say this place is a great stress reducer. I know it is for me. But as far as addiction, it probably is good to have some kind of boundaries on it, but I wouldn’t know aboot that. For the other stuff, great work in the recent big improvements. This stuff is hard. I see it with my wife. She is flirting with the diabetes yet has a hard time cutting down on the bad stuff. Which makes it even harder for me. I largely blame my sedentary job and long commute. I saw a previous cow-orker make big improvements once he retaared, but I think he let stress get to him more than I usually do. My experience is it certainly does get tougher to manage your weight and fitness as you age. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Square Wheels Posted May 25, 2022 Popular Post Share #6 Posted May 25, 2022 It's funny how we treat our own bodies more poorly than we do our possessions. For instance, if I told you gas was really inexpensive at Mike's Cheap Gas down the street, but there have been reports that sometimes the gas might have water in it, you'd avoid it like the plague; however, we all know cookies have zero redeeming value, yet we eat them anyhow. It sounds like you've already taken the first step. recognizing and admitting you need to improve. Here is my recipe, it works to a certain degree for me. For stress, meditate, also talk to those you love. For exercise, I had a coach for a couple of years. This does not mean I intended to win an Ironman, I had simple goals I set for myself, he helped me work toward them. We used Training Peaks. It has a calendar. That calendar owned me, and I felt I could not let him down. Below is an example. Orange meant I exceeded what I was supposed to do (8 mile run scheduled, ran 13+), red means I missed the workout. 99% of my calendar was green. I have not had a coach in years, and have still stuck to a calendar, even if mental. I run and lift Mon, Wed, Fri, I ride Tue, Thu, and one day on the weekend. I usually take one weekend day off. Food is a lot harder for me, as it is for most people. What I find works best is to cut something out cold turkey. I gave up soda years ago. I used to have at least one a day, now I have less than one a month, usually a few a year. I've done this with a few things. It's the whole penny saved idea for me. I exercise a lot and if I eat junk, I feel a little bad about it. The hardest part for me has been believing I deserve to be happy and fit. All the therapy in the world did nothing to help with that. It took many years of self-reflection to learn I matter, and I'm valuable. That's why I've handled being fired so well. Of course it hurt, of course it was embarrassing. Only after a couple of months out of there did I realize what a toxic environment it was. You matter. I am always here for you. Feel free to call or text whenever you'd like. That's my unsolicited advice for today. 2 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkpow Posted May 25, 2022 Share #7 Posted May 25, 2022 Perhaps you need a personal trainer. Just pick one. Or two. 8,196 Fitness Sexy Trainer Stock Photos 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post jsharr ★ Posted May 25, 2022 Author Popular Post Share #8 Posted May 25, 2022 A bit more data my 14 day average is 171. My 7 day average is 166. Hope to see average down in the 150s soon and in the 120 to 140 range long term. Just being proactive and seeing how my food choices affect my blood sugar. Could be placebo, but I think I feel better and have more energy already. 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisL Posted May 25, 2022 Share #9 Posted May 25, 2022 Good work @jsharr. Those who don’t have our disease don’t know of the constant struggle. Every bite counts and sometimes we just don’t GAF and eat something we know we shouldn’t. For non diabetics it’s just a whoopsie moment, for us it’s a dangerous spike in our glucose levels. The more good days you can string together the better off you will be. Keep up the fight! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisL Posted May 25, 2022 Share #10 Posted May 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, jsharr said: A bit more data my 14 day average is 171. My 7 day average is 166. Hope to see average down in the 150s soon and in the 120 to 140 range long term. Just being proactive and seeing how my food choices affect my blood sugar. Could be placebo, but I think I feel better and have more energy already. Oh I don’t think it’s a placebo. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsharr ★ Posted May 25, 2022 Author Share #11 Posted May 25, 2022 8 minutes ago, donkpow said: Perhaps you need a personal trainer. Just pick one. Or two. 8,196 Fitness Sexy Trainer Stock Photos would they train me to be sexy? do you think I could be too sexy for say, my shirt? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted May 25, 2022 Share #12 Posted May 25, 2022 2 hours ago, jsharr said: I internalize too much and one of my biggest coping mechanisms is eating. So... My name is Jeff and I am a human being. We all go through things like this, sir. I too am amazed by how much effort we put into the betterment of other peoples lives while ignoring our own. I don't need to know the psychology behind that but I do know that only you can make the change. Therein lies the battle for most people. You can do this. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BuffJim Posted May 25, 2022 Popular Post Share #13 Posted May 25, 2022 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffJim Posted May 25, 2022 Share #14 Posted May 25, 2022 Maybe you just need to go clubbing more often. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffJim Posted May 25, 2022 Share #15 Posted May 25, 2022 Or even just go out once in a while. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsharr ★ Posted May 25, 2022 Author Share #16 Posted May 25, 2022 1 minute ago, BuffJim said: Or even just go out once in a while. that is just bananas 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted May 25, 2022 Share #17 Posted May 25, 2022 13 minutes ago, Wilbur said: My name is Jeff and I am a human being. ... You can do this. Yep - he CAN and WILL get a handle on this, and he hopefully won't beat himself up anymore. All of us have challenges with something and usually many things, so I think we gotta step back and realize we're all human and are never gonna be perfect. I blame a lot of the guilt folks have on that constant barrage of nonsense we internalize - buy this, eat this, drink this, achieve this - at the same time we're hearing the opposite - save, get thin, get fit, live life, explore - so it becomes a situation where all the mixed messages make everything harder than it needs to be. Luckily for Jsharr, we have several folks here who can definitely help on the A1c front. It doesn't need to be "public", as all those folks are surely available by DM and more than happy to share what works for them and offer encouragement. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsharr ★ Posted May 25, 2022 Author Share #18 Posted May 25, 2022 27 minutes ago, BuffJim said: I can feel the love! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsharr ★ Posted May 25, 2022 Author Share #19 Posted May 25, 2022 26 minutes ago, BuffJim said: Maybe you just need to go clubbing more often. Well Bless Your Heart! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzoo Posted May 25, 2022 Share #20 Posted May 25, 2022 2 hours ago, Square Wheels said: however, we all know cookies have zero redeeming value They do? Huh? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsharr ★ Posted May 25, 2022 Author Share #21 Posted May 25, 2022 6 minutes ago, Kzoo said: They do? Huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smudge ★ Posted May 25, 2022 Share #22 Posted May 25, 2022 3 hours ago, Kzoo said: They do? Huh? I, too, was shocked by that revelation!!!! 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsharr ★ Posted May 25, 2022 Author Share #23 Posted May 25, 2022 5 hours ago, petitepedal said: I am trying to lower my cholesterol..and trying hard..so I'm with ya in the fight. Have ya though about trying meditation? Dan Harris formerly of ABC ...has a couple of basic books..and a practical app. I mean getting minime helped my stress..but I think meditation also helped. I have thought a bit about meditation and I even considered hypnosis to help end my cravings for carbs/sugar late at night. When I was at Texas A&M studying horticulture / landscape architecture, we had a professor who had use do centering exercises to learn to relax and destress when we had to work late or long hours on a design project. Things like hand and wrist movements, or laying on your back and becoming a bag of sand and slowly imagining the sand empyting from the bag. It helped I think. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post smudge ★ Posted May 25, 2022 Popular Post Share #24 Posted May 25, 2022 HoSmudge is on insulin. He has chronic pain issues and sits a lot. He's always amazed at how low his sugar is when he has spent a day at camp.... splitting firewood, taking, shoveling, working on reviving the the old pickup truck..... Yes,dear.. you're moving so your body is processing the sugars/carbs in your body properly. So ya, come on up and spend some time at camp; your sugar numbers will plummet! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsharr ★ Posted May 25, 2022 Author Share #25 Posted May 25, 2022 4 hours ago, Wilbur said: So... My name is Jeff and I am a human being. We all go through things like this, sir. I too am amazed by how much effort we put into the betterment of other peoples lives while ignoring our own. I don't need to know the psychology behind that but I do know that only you can make the change. Therein lies the battle for most people. You can do this. I know that your name is not Jeff! I am not sure I can trust any of this well thought out post now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsharr ★ Posted May 25, 2022 Author Share #26 Posted May 25, 2022 Just now, smudge said: HoSmudge is on insulin. He has chronic pain issues and sits a lot. He's always amazed at how low his sugar is when he has spent a day at camp.... splitting firewood, taking, shoveling, working on reviving the the old pickup truck..... Yes,dear.. you're moving so your body is processing the sugars/carbs in your body properly. So ya, come on up and spend some time at camp; your sugar numbers will plummet! Is HoSmudge type 1 or 2 if I may ask? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smudge ★ Posted May 25, 2022 Share #27 Posted May 25, 2022 Nighttime snacking and dessert after a meal are just habits we allow ourselves. I am trying to break the nighttime snacking habit. Bleh. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smudge ★ Posted May 25, 2022 Share #28 Posted May 25, 2022 1 minute ago, jsharr said: Is HoSmudge type 1 or 2 if I may ask? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smudge ★ Posted May 25, 2022 Share #29 Posted May 25, 2022 P.S. I was worried this would be about a firearm misfire and a foot cast. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Beanz Posted May 25, 2022 Share #30 Posted May 25, 2022 You recognized, means you got a handle on it!👍 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dottleshead ★ Posted May 25, 2022 Share #31 Posted May 25, 2022 6 hours ago, jsharr said: The thread about addiction, or alcohol or whatever got me thinking. I do not deal well with stress. I internalize too much and one of my biggest coping mechanisms is eating. I know all this, but I still do it. I believe this is what led me to be a type II diabetic, even when I was very active. I controlled it well for over a decade. If I am being honest, this place is also one of my escapes and coping mechanisms and I should probably think about that as well. Lately, my activity level has dropped and my stress level has gone up and with it, my weight and A1c. Last Dr. appt, my doc recommended I go on insulin. This was a huge wake up call. A1C was 8.9 . I immediately began some introspection and have almost entirely cut out snacking. No between meal snacking at work and almost none after dinner before bed. Weekends are hardest. Also, my insurance denied the fast acting insulin and the glucose monitor I was prescribed, and with just the dietary changes above and a slight increase in activity, but not much, I have lowered by readings from the low 200s to the mid 100s in just two weeks. For the last three days, I have been in the 140s. I did have a snack of air popped popcorn last night while watching the Mavs game, and got a reading of 150 this AM. My avg reading since I really started checking consistently on the 13th of this month has dropped from 200 to 174. Sorry for the rambling. Just needed to vent a bit. Still mad at myself for ignoring my own health and trying to comfort myself with things that harm me. Many of us are in the same boat. I too have all those warning signs and I too stress and I too once binged on alcohol/smokes, and I too currently enjoy my food. And I too fail to make permanent changes. I think you are doing yourself a service and the rest of us a service talking about it. You are not alone. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Wheels Posted May 25, 2022 Share #32 Posted May 25, 2022 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dottleshead ★ Posted May 25, 2022 Share #33 Posted May 25, 2022 Just now, Square Wheels said: Does that mean I can have cream with my coffee!? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffJim Posted May 25, 2022 Share #34 Posted May 25, 2022 12 minutes ago, Dottles said: Does that mean I can have cream with my coffee!? Why not? Very few carbs in cream. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dottleshead ★ Posted May 25, 2022 Share #35 Posted May 25, 2022 6 minutes ago, BuffJim said: Why not? Very few carbs in cream. Sat fat for a guy with stents sux though 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffJim Posted May 25, 2022 Share #36 Posted May 25, 2022 19 minutes ago, Dottles said: Sat fat for a guy with stents sux though If you have type 2, the sugar is more worrisome than the sat fat. But my brother who had a massive heart attack last April and has stents, also avoids sat fats. But he doesn’t have the diabetes. He’s out doing a solo backpacking trip this week in the Adirondacks. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Posted May 25, 2022 Share #37 Posted May 25, 2022 My own take is there are a number of things that cause stress - work, finances, family issues, health, news etc. Mostly we all know what are the "right' things to do, but we can't always expect ourselves to be perfect. There are times when I've prioritized one over the others because something seemed urgent at the time. It would be nice to do them all right all the time, but that's rarely realistic. It's wonderful your prioritizing your health now and doing things that are having a demonstrable impact. But if you slip on something, don't be too harsh on yourself. It's only natural and you can always start again the next day. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisL Posted May 25, 2022 Share #38 Posted May 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Square Wheels said: I like his videos & subscribe to his channel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisL Posted May 25, 2022 Share #39 Posted May 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Dottles said: Does that mean I can have cream with my coffee!? He recommends coffee with butter in it. Sounds weird to me but I drink it black anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dottleshead ★ Posted May 26, 2022 Share #40 Posted May 26, 2022 2 hours ago, BuffJim said: If you have type 2, the sugar is more worrisome than the sat fat. But my brother who had a massive heart attack last April and has stents, also avoids sat fats. But he doesn’t have the diabetes. He’s out doing a solo backpacking trip this week in the Adirondacks. No diabetes but higher blood sugar readings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petitepedal ★ Posted May 26, 2022 Share #41 Posted May 26, 2022 I can give out free 1 month guest passes for the 10% happier meditation app....message me your e-mail and I will send you the link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groupw Posted May 26, 2022 Share #42 Posted May 26, 2022 When my dad got type 2, and started to take control of his health, he got to where he could tell me his blood sugar number before he pricked his finger. If he went out walking, he could bring it down 50-100 points on that alone. What time do you get up in the morning? Is it practical to wake up a little earlier and go for a ride? Even 30-60 minutes helps a lot. I went for a ride this morning since it’s over 100 in the afternoons right now. I did not change my food intake and I felt the calorie deficit all day. They say morning workouts are more beneficial. We’ll see how that plays out. I’ve cut down to 3 sodas a week instead of daily. I do sweeten my iced coffee, but far below soda levels. I drink much more water than I used to. I have reduced but I have not eliminated my before bed snack. Baby steps. One thing I learned with snacks is mindful eating. I schedule my snacks just like a meal so I can account for them and adjust meals accordingly. If you can do that the snacks don’t sneak up on you. Just a lot of random stuff that seems to help me. YMMV 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisL Posted May 26, 2022 Share #43 Posted May 26, 2022 11 minutes ago, groupw said: When my dad got type 2, and started to take control of his health, he got to where he could tell me his blood sugar number before he pricked his finger. If he went out walking, he could bring it down 50-100 points on that alone. What time do you get up in the morning? Is it practical to wake up a little earlier and go for a ride? Even 30-60 minutes helps a lot. I went for a ride this morning since it’s over 100 in the afternoons right now. I did not change my food intake and I felt the calorie deficit all day. They say morning workouts are more beneficial. We’ll see how that plays out. I’ve cut down to 3 sodas a week instead of daily. I do sweeten my iced coffee, but far below soda levels. I drink much more water than I used to. I have reduced but I have not eliminated my before bed snack. Baby steps. One thing I learned with snacks is mindful eating. I schedule my snacks just like a meal so I can account for them and adjust meals accordingly. If you can do that the snacks don’t sneak up on you. Just a lot of random stuff that seems to help me. YMMV I’m at a point where I can pretty much guess my fasting glucose based on what I did & ate the day/days before. I’m usually good within 10 points. The only time I’m off is when I’m fighting a bug. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Beanz Posted May 26, 2022 Share #44 Posted May 26, 2022 Really freaked me out when I would go out for a midweek hour long ride, come home then check my sugar and it would be higher than before the ride expecting it to be lower. Then found out that the body turns to producing its own sugar for energy. So level rises. But after a bit of time, it drops rather quickly to where I would expect it to be. This freaked me out for a week or so thinking my numbers were rising no matter what I did. Thought I might be going to face some problems. Thankfully I found out it was normal to rise after exercise for a bit. WHEW!!!! 😄 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bikeguy Posted May 26, 2022 Share #45 Posted May 26, 2022 12 hours ago, jsharr said: Self Inflicted wounds My kryptonite is food. When I was young I was very active and I could eat a LOT and it didn't matter. I burned off the calories. I was tall and skinny and fit. Then I graduated from college and got a job. My activities changed (no where near as active), but my eating habits didn't change. Cycling probably saved my life over the last 20 years. I started losing weight and getting way more fit. But food was still my problem. Now that I'm retired... I'm riding less, but my stress level is WAY down. I eat a LOT less now too. Maybe.. I ate to cope with stress from work too. I'm at my lowest weight in decades now. That said.. food is still my kryptonite. More accurately junk food... I have set 'limits' for my cravings. Most times I'm good at now exceeding my limits. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dottleshead ★ Posted May 26, 2022 Share #46 Posted May 26, 2022 2 hours ago, Bikeguy said: My kryptonite is food. If you don’t smoke, drink, or use drugs, you’re down to sex, food, and meditation. I think food is the easiest. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealot Posted May 26, 2022 Share #47 Posted May 26, 2022 Food is quite a conundrum. You have to have it. Can’t just quit eating. Alcohol or tobacco are things one can give up. But not food. Life is difficult. The normal stresses of our modern world can overwhelm us. Add aging related issues to it and you get a nice recipe for health issues. I think recognizing the issue, even if it took the ‘wake up call’, is the key to heading in the right direction. And then making the better choices in your everyday life is the move. Over the past 5 months of doctors appts for the issues I’m dealing with, each specialist has given me the “risks of being obese” lecture. If you look at me, obesity isn’t what would come to mind. But my weight is in the upper 250s and my BMI has crossed the threshold. I’ve been here once before, back when this stuff began the first time in mid 2000s. I’m in that phase where Im attempting the change my habits, but contending with pain, fatigue, coordination issues and meds makes it difficult. But I’ll keep at it. Thoughts and prayers for you @jsharr. You sound like you’ve got the right attitude and you’re in the right track. 👍🏻 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted May 26, 2022 Share #48 Posted May 26, 2022 8 hours ago, Bikeguy said: My kryptonite is food. When I was young I was very active and I could eat a LOT and it didn't matter. I burned off the calories. I was tall and skinny and fit. Then I graduated from college and got a job. My activities changed (no where near as active), but my eating habits didn't change. Cycling probably saved my life over the last 20 years. I started losing weight and getting way more fit. But food was still my problem. Now that I'm retired... I'm riding less, but my stress level is WAY down. I eat a LOT less now too. Maybe.. I ate to cope with stress from work too. I'm at my lowest weight in decades now. That said.. food is still my kryptonite. More accurately junk food... I have set 'limits' for my cravings. Most times I'm good at now exceeding my limits. Food is absolutely one of my battles. Luckily for me, I have my wife who, when not trying to kill me with the no-carb thing, is a great cook using fresh ingredients regularly. Eating out is a treat, not an expectation, and junk food is given a stink eye But I also have developed an attention to noting the calories in, calories out calculations regularly. My life is made easy by being able to quickly hop on my bike and go for a short or long ride, and burn through a bunch of the calories I took in. I see how that outlet really helps my health AND my mood. Exercise is a great way to keep my morale up, and I look forward to it rather than dread it. It may be a pain to establish that routine, but it pays dividends. It's also a lot of establishing the virtuous cycle and breaking the vicious cycle. The sugar "hook" is a tough one to pull out, but it can be done, and it is one of those things where you will backslide, but with some focus, the backslides become fewer and the guilt becomes less. I'm in a "maintenance" mode where I can recover from those days where I have the donuts or Oreos or whatever, but I doubt I'll ever be able to indulge in that stuff daily. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsharr ★ Posted May 26, 2022 Author Share #49 Posted May 26, 2022 16 hours ago, BuffJim said: If you have type 2, the sugar is more worrisome than the sat fat. But my brother who had a massive heart attack last April and has stents, also avoids sat fats. But he doesn’t have the diabetes. He’s out doing a solo backpacking trip this week in the Adirondacks. I have cooked a few meals over an MSR whisperlite stove like his. I carry a JetBoil now. Need to do more backpacking 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsharr ★ Posted May 26, 2022 Author Share #50 Posted May 26, 2022 7 hours ago, Dottles said: If you don’t smoke, drink, or use drugs, you’re down to sex, food, and meditation. I think food is the easiest. Food cannot say no. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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