In the natural progression of sports.............

[maddmaxx ★]

Is it possible for us to get so good that the sport suffers?

I'll start this as I am currently watching the Monaco F1 practice.  Every year advancements in the cars make them faster.  This year there are suddenly complaints that they are too fast to continue racing at Monaco.  They are faster, more aerodynamic, have larger tires, much larger power plants and are heavier because of all of this.  They may be a bit wider as well.  Monaco was a great track when the cars looked like the Lotus that Jackie Stewart drove decades ago.  I have to ask what makes great racing?  Do fans want to see the ultimate in speed or good racing? NASCAR has over the years reduced the top speeds whenever they got too fast by downsizing engines, limiting the car design.  They have even talked about downsizing tires or reducing the banking at the ultra speedways like Daytona.

Are football players so oversized and trained these days that they become a hazard to themselves and others?  Are women basketball players so fast and strong that it's becoming common to see blown out knees?

I've watched several of my hobbies (sports) price themselves out of normal existence with technological advances.  Even my RC drag racing is headed in that direction as there are now $250 special batteries and $250 dollar electronic throttles that are necessary if you want any chance at winning in the street outlaw class (1.6 seconds at 80+ mph in 132 feet)  One of those cars now runs on the north side of $2000 for a season of racing.

When I was still a soccer referee I began to see more injuries among youth soccer players as they pushed harder for speed and skill at younger ages.  They had to if there was going to be any chance of advancing to higher levels.  Survival of the fittest and all that.

 

[jsharr ★]

Happened in CART quite a few years back when they came to run at Texas.  Speed was so high on the banking the G load was causing drivers to gray out.

They need to limit tire size and / or downforce to make the cars slower, but competitive.  I would love to see more passing and the ability of the cars to survive a bit of contact.

[12string]

6 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

Is it possible for us to get so good that the sport suffers?

probably already there in a lot of ways.  Then there's rules changes to try to correct that.  Then the competitiveness finds a way around them.  Cycle continued.

The answer?  Participation trophies.  

Actually, reduced competitiveness so everyone backs off.  Then the sport suffers.

Decades ago, Hockey players were much smaller and slower and beat the crap out of each other.  That was fun.  If they tried it at today's size and speed, players would die, so it's more of a skill game.  That's fun.

[Razors Edge ★]

In motorsports, it definitely is a yin/yang balancing act.  They clearly refine the "formula" and then the race is one to exploit it - often with unexpected results.

[maddmaxx ★]

What's the expectancy of a running back or quarterback playing for an entire NFL season without injury or time off these days.

Have high school basketball injuries skyrocketed in your area?

[Zealot]

Look at today’s bodybuilders compared to those of the 60s - early 80s. Lines or mass?

People always seem to want more power, size and speed. We are a race of extremes.

Some of the most enjoyable times of any sport are when it’s in its infancy. When we truly aren’t sure what can be achieved.  😊 

[Razors Edge ★]

15 minutes ago, Zealot said:

Some of the most enjoyable times of any sport are when it’s in its infancy. When we truly aren’t sure what can be achieved.

Very true for a variety of reasons.  Bike racing is an easy example, as we've seen the steady decline of "joy" as the Postal and then Sky machines used $$$ and strict control to find the winning formula, and it turns out that "formula" is boring as hell.  It ends up showing why many of us start cheering for the underdogs, or hoping for a breakaway.  Most folks don't like watching the Dream Team after that first Olympics. Not many folks enjoy watching the Ineos train - packed with millionaire domestiques - lead a multimillionaire GC guy through every stage of a tour.  It can suck the life out of a sport, and we can count on it happening over and over again in "mature" sports.

The best seasons in the NFL or college football or tennis or swimming or whatever is when there are "not the usual" folks battling it out at the finals.  With "young" sports, very few folks have been groomed from childhood to be awesome at that very particular thing (think South Korean female golfers or Tiger Woods).  The young sports have the folks who are looking for something "new" and are likely trailblazers, but not necessarily the "best".  That comes later once the sport is filled with the specialists, and the generalists are weeded out or relegated to support roles.

[Parr8hed]

10 year old kids swinging 500 dollar bats.  14 year old pitchers throwing 60+ mph.  

Yep.  

[a bunch of numbers]

Someone asked Terry Bradshaw if his 70s era superbowl winning football team could beat today's Steelers team.  He said, "Yah, but it'd be a close game."  They asked, "Why a close game?"  He replied, "Well, we're all in our 70s now."

[12string]

My team is playing for the bottom division league championship next week, series is tied now.  I can guarantee that game won't be anything like the way we played 30 years ago.

[Square Wheels]

Go Celtics!

[MickinMD ★]

On 5/27/2022 at 11:44 AM, maddmaxx said:

Is it possible for us to get so good that the sport suffers?

I'll start this as I am currently watching the Monaco F1 practice.  Every year advancements in the cars make them faster.  This year there are suddenly complaints that they are too fast to continue racing at Monaco.  They are faster, more aerodynamic, have larger tires, much larger power plants and are heavier because of all of this.  They may be a bit wider as well.  Monaco was a great track when the cars looked like the Lotus that Jackie Stewart drove decades ago.  I have to ask what makes great racing?  Do fans want to see the ultimate in speed or good racing? NASCAR has over the years reduced the top speeds whenever they got too fast by downsizing engines, limiting the car design.  They have even talked about downsizing tires or reducing the banking at the ultra speedways like Daytona.

Are football players so oversized and trained these days that they become a hazard to themselves and others?  Are women basketball players so fast and strong that it's becoming common to see blown out knees?

I've watched several of my hobbies (sports) price themselves out of normal existence with technological advances.  Even my RC drag racing is headed in that direction as there are now $250 special batteries and $250 dollar electronic throttles that are necessary if you want any chance at winning in the street outlaw class (1.6 seconds at 80+ mph in 132 feet)  One of those cars now runs on the north side of $2000 for a season of racing.

When I was still a soccer referee I began to see more injuries among youth soccer players as they pushed harder for speed and skill at younger ages.  They had to if there was going to be any chance of advancing to higher levels.  Survival of the fittest and all that.

 

Good points.  At the high school and rec league level, the training is much more sophisticated than when I was in high school.  NFL Hall of Fame Defensive End Arty Donovan of the Baltimore Colts told that he never heard of looking for keys in the offense's setup to indicate what he should do when the ball was snapped until he was coached by Weeb Eubank in the 1950's.

From football players being taught to be up in the air when catching passes, to making swim moves to get past offensive linemen to high jumpers making 9-step J-patterns before jumping, there's ever greater technique training.

Add that to Iowa Method and similar weight training methods of today and you've got bigger, stronger players who know how to play better.

A lot of pro games have fields and rules that the players have overgrown.

They're like girls' softball, there the field dimensions were set in the days when girls didn't get much athletic training.  Today, a high school batter has LESS time from when the softball leaves the pitchers hand until it passes the plate than a major league baseball batter does.  A lot of top games end up 1-0 or 2-1.  Bunting a runner into scoring position is a big deal.  In one game I coached we scored two runs in the first inning against another state top-ten team and the other team's coach had a fit.  He was a science teacher and I had taught in the same school with him in the past, but couldn't calm him down.  He knew he had probably lost the game already!