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Can a good rider on a crap bike beat a crappy rider on a good bike?


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Yeah - none of the GCN folks are "crap" cyclists, but I'd absolutely expect a true pro cyclist to spank an amateur 100% of the time riding regardless of the bike.  Any working bike under a pro will be super capable, and in cycling, it's easily 90% rider, and maybe 10% equipment (if even that).  

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Years ago in the love forum days, we did a ride up the mountain with about 20 members. Few guys boasting expensive climbing bikes. Other racer types. 

A guy named Jason, still see around now and then, showed up later. 10 to 15 minutes behind the others, caught and passed every body on the 5k ft 20 mile climb. 😄

On a $500 Performance Scatante bike..

Years later,  many dot net big time racers and forum advisors did the everest challenge.  Jason did it as a public rider. He dropped all the dot net hot shots.

He flatted, did the repair then passed and dropped them again beating them by a big margin. I think he was iirc 10th place in the event consisting of30k climbing. 

I.got a kick out of it. The forum hot shots said a rider ain't squat if you don't use a power meter to train. 

I saw Jason after the event,  asked him if he used a power meter. He just laughed and said,  nah I just ride my bike. 😁

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8 hours ago, Mr. Beanz said:

Years ago in the love forum days, we did a ride up the mountain with about 20 members. Few guys boasting expensive climbing bikes. Other racer types. 

A guy named Jason, still see around now and then, showed up later. 10 to 15 minutes behind the others, caught and passed every body on the 5k ft 20 mile climb. 😄

On a $500 Performance Scatante bike..

Years later,  many dot net big time racers and forum advisors did the everest challenge.  Jason did it as a public rider. He dropped all the dot net hot shots.

He flatted, did the repair then passed and dropped them again beating them by a big margin. I think he was iirc 10th place in the event consisting of30k climbing. 

I.got a kick out of it. The forum hot shots said a rider ain't squat if you don't use a power meter to train. 

I saw Jason after the event,  asked him if he used a power meter. He just laughed and said,  nah I just ride my bike. 😁

Yep - I think it all boils down to fitness matching the challenge at hand.  Someone like Mark Cavendish is "old" but still a true contender in a sprint at the TdF or other race. He's getting by with a combination of power, fitness, and EXPERIENCE to win races still.  He is SHIT on mountain stages, though. Absolute rubbish where much of the team needs to be dedicated to shepherding him through a mountain stage to avoid elimination.  

BUT!!!!

He would absolutely rip the legs off 99+% of the riders of the world on any climb out there.  And he could do it on a $500 bike.  Sure, he'd do it better on a featherweight aero modern bike with Di2, power meter, hydraulic disc brakes and an aero & light wheel set, but he doesn't need that to crush us.  If he beats me by 30 mins or 35 mins is really irrelevant as he is gonna beat me and all my cycling buddies.

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I did a crit training ride years ago. I thought the lead riders were ba ass till a couple of pros showed up. They were lapping us on a half mile loop. They would laugh and zoom by and even the strongest of the local race teams couldn't latch onto their wheels.  One guy has a brother who rode the tdf.. Must be genetics. 😄

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1 hour ago, Mr. Beanz said:

One guy has a brother who rode the tdf.. Must be genetics.

I bet!

But that whole 10,000 hours to become an expert thing comes into play. Not because you really need a specific time to become an expert, but that you really need to FOCUS to be at the top and that usually takes time.  For me, a "good" year is only 300 hours in the saddle.  Almost, but not even, 1 hr per day.   A pro, will be multiple times that - going farther and faster so the mileage is insane.   

If you could literally spend all your waking hours focused on one thing in the prime of your life, how good would you get?  Probably way better than you would/did working a job, raising a family, and then doing it in the time you had.

I can't beat myself up for not being able to keep up with a pro or even a focused amateur.  They literally just have too much specific training in their legs whereas I have just a hodgepodge of riding for fun in mine :D

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38 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

I bet!

But that whole 10,000 hours to become an expert thing comes into play. Not because you really need a specific time to become an expert, but that you really need to FOCUS to be at the top and that usually takes time.  For me, a "good" year is only 300 hours in the saddle.  Almost, but not even, 1 hr per day.   A pro, will be multiple times that - going farther and faster so the mileage is insane.   

If you could literally spend all your waking hours focused on one thing in the prime of your life, how good would you get?  Probably way better than you would/did working a job, raising a family, and then doing it in the time you had.

I can't beat myself up for not being able to keep up with a pro or even a focused amateur.  They literally just have too much specific training in their legs whereas I have just a hodgepodge of riding for fun in mine :D

Yup.  I saw the guy working at a bike shop a couple years back. He's still fast but not at the top of the sport anymore. Literally trying to make ends meet. I think he spent more time riding than preparing for the future. I'm sure he's not making much as the little shop where I saw him closed their doors.  I had to work all my life. 

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20 hours ago, Mr. Beanz said:

Yup.  I saw the guy working at a bike shop a couple years back. He's still fast but not at the top of the sport anymore. Literally trying to make ends meet. I think he spent more time riding than preparing for the future. I'm sure he's not making much as the little shop where I saw him closed their doors.  I had to work all my life. 

Sports are an interesting "career", as the few at the top of a sport make enough and have enough fame to retire young and live how they like.  The next tier often move into related areas - coaching or organizational roles - but still need to work.  Then there are the good, but not good enough who maybe can make a run at a sport, but will eventually not be able to make a sustainable life out of it.

One of my cousins was (is) a really good athlete. Made it up into the minor leagues in baseball, played a few years with guys like Canseco and McGwire as they dropped down to rehab, and he realized he was NEVER making a major league roster.  So, after a couple years out in CA on different teams, he called it a day, and fell back on his business degree and sports savvy to become a sports apparel company guy.  Everything he learned about the sport and teamwork and the folks he knew from college and minor league baseball made him a great fit for the job, and now he is very high up in one of the top sports apparel/equipment companies in the world.  

I often wonder, though, where the niche sports folks (cyclists for sure) go post racing career.  Think of all the super US riders who never made it to Lance level - Zabriskie, Jason McCartney, Antonio Cruz, John Devine, etc., or even Danielson, Leipheimer, and Hamilton.  I see Horner with Vandevelde and Bob Roll covering cycling, but where did all the rest end up?  Landis won his big $$$ and has the pot business. Zabriskie has his chafing cream, and Hincapie a cycling clothing business.  But, man, that's a lot of top level Pro-Tour with not a lot of top level jobs being available :(

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