College Y or N?

[ChrisL]

Just curious, not being judgmental.  I think the opinions expressed in the college drop off thread puts some context as to why we did or didn’t go.  Me:

AA from a local JC & BS in Public Administration from CSU Dominguez Hills.

Not college but:

US Army Military Police School, (USAMPS),  US Army Primary Leadership Development Course (PLDC) 

Numerous industry related courses & certifications held.

[maddmaxx ★]

In addition to what I posted in the other thread, the Navy also invested 2 years in various electronics schools and another 5 in some serious hands on experience.

[Kzoo]

I went to a technical school in HS and graduated HS as a mechanical designer.  I worked in several large engineering departments (Sunbeam Electric, GE, Teledyne, Singer).

I started taking classes in mechanical engineering in the evenings but then a job change got in the way.

I then had the opportunity to take some classes that were required for tool and die makers to get their journeyman's card.  Those were fun, different and very educational in a very applicable fashion.

I was running a small R&D lab for a local company when in 1981 they decided to 'computerize' the company.  I was tagged to lead that effort and have been in IT ever since.

[Razors Edge ★]

Graduated college in 1992.

Great time for me, for sure.  I think I would have done well in the military too, but that was not an option I even thought about.  

[maddmaxx ★]

8 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

I went to a technical school in HS and graduated HS as a mechanical designer.  I worked in several large engineering departments (Sunbeam Electric, GE, Teledyne, Singer).

I started taking classes in mechanical engineering in the evenings but then a job change got in the way.

I then had the opportunity to take some classes that were required for tool and die makers to get their journeyman's card.  Those were fun, different and very educational in a very applicable fashion.

I was running a small R&D lab for a local company when in 1981 they decided to 'computerize' the company.  I was tagged to lead that effort and have been in IT ever since.

Ah.......81 was a good time to get in on the ground floor of IT.

[Ralphie ★]

College for me. 

[sheep_herder ★]

College x 3 for me

[Parr8hed]

yes, a small community college.  Associates degree. 

[Longjohn ★]

30 minutes ago, Parr8hed said:

yes, a small community college.  Associates degree. 

I thought Ass-ociats was supposed to be hyphenated? 

[Wilbur ★]

If someone was thinking a general/liberal arts diploma, don't waste the time or parents money.  If you have a targeted education in mind, preferably business or sciences, then yes, get an education.  If you want to be in demand and earn an honest living, get a trade. 

I chose the science education with a target. 

[MickinMD ★]

I think college is a good idea for anyone who can handle academic pressure where the degree will lead to a good-paying career or to be involved with something you are passionate about.

For those who get degrees that don't lead to decent jobs and there are 10 applicants for every poor-paying opening, I don't think college is worth it.

Of course, there are people who are not academic types but can do carpentry, automobile repair, etc. and love it and make good money doing it.

From the time I was 12 I wanted to be a chemist.  I didn't realize until the end of my junior year in high school that I might be able to work my way through college.

So I was thrilled to go to college, to do published research as an undergrad, to go to grad school, to do industrial research and then, when worried about carcinogens, become a chemistry teacher.  There were pressures and occasional assholes to deal with, but I enjoyed my chemistry careers because I love chemistry.

It didn't make me rich but left me relatively well-off, so I have no complaints.

 

[Razors Edge ★]

1 minute ago, MickinMD said:

I think college is a good idea for anyone who can handle academic pressure where the degree will lead to a good-paying career or to be involved with something you are passionate about.

For those who get degrees that don't lead to decent jobs and there are 10 applicants for every poor-paying opening, I don't think college is worth it.

 

22 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

If someone was thinking a general/liberal arts diploma, don't waste the time or parents money.

I'm more in line with DON'T PAY TOO MUCH for those less lucrative options, not "don't pursue them".  There are countless colleges in the US with an insane range of tuition costs, so if you want to be a photographer, or an animal husbandry expert, or paralegal, etc., then go where you can get that degree for a reasonable price.  You don't want to be paying private school elite college prices for that degree, but that doesn't mean the degree, at a reasonable cost, isn't a good long term idea.

[Randomguy]

2 hours ago, Philander Seabury said:

College for me. 

This college didn't accept me.  It still stings.

 

[TrentonMakes]

4 years of college here... I had a good time and made some lifelong friends there, but I never had any interest in going any farther with my schoolin'.

[Parsnip Totin Jack ★]

Night school at an accredited college/university. Strayer College when I started in 1993. Strayer University when I graduated in 1998. We were the first graduating class from the University. Business degree. I used educational assistance from my employer and $17,000 in student loans. My parents paid off the debt when I graduated as a surprise gift. Went on to earn Masters certificates in Business (Marymount) and Risk Management (Boston U). Strayer’s unofficial motto: “Show up every day, get an A. Pay the fee, get a B”. It really wasn’t that easy, but we felt we got some breaks as many were juggling full time jobs and home life. 

[Square Wheels]

Where's the poll?

Yes, I have BS, I mean a BS.  Started to pursue my MBA, but it was too hard with little kids and a disagreeable wife.

[JerrySTL ★]

I graduated from a civilian automotive repair course and also aircraft maintenance training in the USAF.

I also earned 2 associates degrees from the USAF. Later I earned a BS in Education then a dual Masters degree in HR and Computer Management. 

I used all of my training and education over the course of my working career. 

I lean more towards people learning a trade. If going to college, make sure it's for a marketable degree. My son is a CPA; oldest daughter is a science teacher; and youngest daughter is a mechanical engineer. A friend has a son with a PhD in Ancient History and can't find anything but part time teaching jobs.

[shootingstar]

1 hour ago, Razors Edge said:

 

I'm more in line with DON'T PAY TOO MUCH for those less lucrative options, not "don't pursue them".  There are countless colleges in the US with an insane range of tuition costs, so if you want to be a photographer, or an animal husbandry expert, or paralegal, etc., then go where you can get that degree for a reasonable price.  You don't want to be paying private school elite college prices for that degree, but that doesn't mean the degree, at a reasonable cost, isn't a good long term idea.

I would agree. People sometimes get far too wrapped up about "prestige" of an educational institution.

I've met people who took non-accredited program.  After asking a few questions, it seems they missed the boat on some core courses. 

The first thing I would advise is: is the educational program accredited?  That boils down to national professional certifying bodies which require mandatory courses to get a grip on principles and theory which can truly help when technology starts shaping your discipline. For some professions, one has to  get past the intricacies of technology and strip it down to fundamental principles and outcomes. 

Those don't change. Human behaviour doesn't change. Human motivation doesn't change....for those who have jobs /careers that demand a person to introduce change and help their client/user groups adopt change well, with a plan, support, reinforcement, etc.

 

[maddmaxx ★]

25 minutes ago, JerrySTL said:

I graduated from a civilian automotive repair course and also aircraft maintenance training in the USAF.

I also earned 2 associates degrees from the USAF. Later I earned a BS in Education then a dual Masters degree in HR and Computer Management. 

I used all of my training and education over the course of my working career. 

I lean more towards people learning a trade. If going to college, make sure it's for a marketable degree. My son is a CPA; oldest daughter is a science teacher; and youngest daughter is a mechanical engineer. A friend has a son with a PhD in Ancient History and can't find anything but part time teaching jobs.

I was "convinced" that I should go to RPI as a physics major.  I didn't really like it, ran away and joined the navy.  I was in my mid 40's when I finally got a degree in computer science.  Frankly, by then it was just a piece of paper that might have kept my resume out of the circular file.  After Pratt laid me off and I moved to the laser research environment I discovered that everything I had learned to do with my hands and experience was a job made in heaven for me.  Unfortunately, the research business doesn't pay wall street wages.

[BR46]

No college or tech school. After bouncing from job to job I landed at the spring factory. Started out on a entry level job and with in a year I convinced them to give me a shot in the maintenance department. To me the mechanical part was easy and I had a eye for trouble shooting. 

I was a Millwright without a card but the company paid me as if I had one so I wouldn't leave. 

I made good money and would have been able to retire at 55 if I wouldn't have paid 100% of my son's college. 

[Longjohn ★]

Part of the reason I didn’t go to college was my girlfriend’s brother went to college and got a degree in engineering. Almost as soon as he lost his deferment he got drafted. He didn’t have to go to Viet Nam but there was no guarantee you wouldn’t be. To go in debt for all that education and die inThe war leaving that expense didn’t make sense to me. I didn’t want a desk job anyway

[shotgun]

I went to a technical school for a two year Associates Degree in Electronics.

[petitepedal ★]

an Associate degree in one field and a BA in another..did some career counseling after 2 years of working in Texas..one indicated I was working with the wrong age group(teens)..the other made me take additional tests because my scores were "significantly high" in spatial ability..they suggested engineering.

Obviously, I took the route that paid less 

[Thaddeus Kosciuszko]

Did you guys know that prison libraries have lots of books that you can use to get all kinds of degrees, especially if you have lots of time on your hands?

[maddmaxx ★]

3 minutes ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said:

Did you guys know that prison libraries have lots of books that you can use to get all kinds of degrees, especially if you have lots of time on your hands?

Except for the cost I have given thought to taking classes again.

[Airehead]

College times 4

[shootingstar]

I am the only person in the family who doesn't have a STEM degree. I would never recommend forcing a someone who naturally is and has always been strong outside of STEM. I fought  hard to define my own studies path.  I qualified as part of low-income family stream for grants and rest, my summer jobs paid for my education.

Honours BA in English Literature & Language. Then MA in Library and Information Studies. The latter is social sciences discipline: because it draws upon quantitative analysis (statistical analysis on operations, services and human interaction with data and information use ) and qualitative analysis (how to structure knowledge and information content for access, business efficiency and findability, vocabulary control (well hey that relates to language, word use and user comprehension, right. That's why automated semantics is only partially successful), then bigger issues of teaching information literacy, handling matters on censorship, privacy and protection of personal information.

Of course,  2nd degree was  targeted on increasing job opportunities. But my first degree has helped me write manuals, learning aids on technical features to help the bewildered /overwhelmed /disinterested /resigned learner who has little/no interest in technical intricacies. But who needs to survive /stay in their transformed job.

Alot of my jobs required implementing change to systems and business processes as well teaching people what they really need to learn with the new system---both software features and and now 2 other internal courses on business needs analysis and how to translate that to design according to corporate standard and systems.

I consider myself very lucky to have worked in diverse industry sectors and subject areas. But to do that, you have to be prepared to move around and not get stuck on staying at 1 place just because of the pension.

 

[2Far ★]

2 hours ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said:

Did you guys know that prison libraries have lots of books that you can use to get all kinds of degrees, especially if you have lots of time on your hands?

That’s my retirement plan. 

[KrAzY]

I am a 2x college dropout. First time I decided it was not for me right out of high school. I joined the FD and did well for 14 years. Second time I decided I was close enough to finishing my major and just said screw it. I think I am doing well for myself in the position I am in now. 

[Dottleshead ★]

10 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

Graduated college in 1992.

Great time for me, for sure.  I think I would have done well in the military too, but that was not an option I even thought about.  

This. But graduated in ‘90.

[ChrisL]

8 hours ago, Longjohn said:

Part of the reason I didn’t go to college was my girlfriend’s brother went to college and got a degree in engineering. Almost as soon as he lost his deferment he got drafted. He didn’t have to go to Viet Nam but there was no guarantee you wouldn’t be. To go in debt for all that education and die inThe war leaving that expense didn’t make sense to me. I didn’t want a desk job anyway

But by not being in college wouldn’t you have more risk of being drafted?   We jokingly call my wife’s older brother the draft deferment as as soon as their dad finished college, married &  bam knocked up his wife…

[Longjohn ★]

6 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

But by not being in college wouldn’t you have more risk of being drafted?   We jokingly call my wife’s older brother the draft deferment as as soon as their dad finished college, married &  bam knocked up his wife…

College was just a deferment, when you graduate they were still going to get you. I definitely didn’t want to get drafted at that age. I wasn’t going to volunteer I went to automotive technicians school and had two O occupational deferment until they came up with the lottery system. I had a decent number in the lottery and dropped out of school and took my chances. They came within four numbers of me.

[ChrisL]

1 minute ago, Longjohn said:

College was just a deferment, when you graduate they were still going to get you. I definitely didn’t want to get drafted at that age. I wasn’t going to volunteer I went to automotive technicians school and had two O occupational deferment until they came up with the lottery system. I had a decent number in the lottery and dropped out of school and took my chances. They came within four numbers of me.

I don’t really know how the draft worked back them with the number/lottery system.  It seemed it was an unfair system where inner city kids of color were highly represented. 

I still remember getting called in to the Commander's office as a young Private. Shit what did I do!?! 

Private ChrisL, why didn’t you register for the draft?  Because I enlisted sir.  As stupid as it sounds you still need to register.  Go to the post office and register ASAP and report back to me when done.  Yessir! Got me off duty for the day as I didn’t have a car & had to walk to the post office & back.  To this day I don’t know why it went to that level? 

[Longjohn ★]

Lol,

7 hours ago, ChrisL said:

I don’t really know how the draft worked back them with the number/lottery system.  It seemed it was an unfair system where inner city kids of color were highly represented. 

Not necessarily, I had to report for my pre-draft physical. I thought they just checked you for disease and see if you were able to march with a full pack and carry a weapon. After the physical you had to be tested for how smart you are. That was the biggest part of the day. I thought about giving them all wrong answers but didn’t think that would work so I just did my best and hoped a high score might keep me from being cannon fodder. There was a group of inner city black kids that were trying to enlist. A career in the military is much better than a life in the inner city. When the scores came back from the testing they were rejected because their scores were too low. They were really disappointed because they really wanted to get out of the ghetto.

I had a really high score but the lottery never made it to my number.

[goldendesign]

Graduated HS in 2001, went straight into a retail trade. Jewelry and watchmaking for most of my young adult life. Then around 27-28 I cleaned up my life, most of you all know this part, and decided an education would allow me to pursue a new plateau. Through fits and starts; mostly because even in my late twenties I was still figuring myself out and working on the kinks I will finally graduate with a BS in Information Sciences and a minor in Applied Mathematics this fall. My company has also made it known they will completely fund my Masters. I am meeting with advisors this month to plan my next course in academia.

As for the conversation on if Higher Education I could echo most of what people have said here. Some benefit, others not so much. BUT that mentality is also aging out fast our capitalist society is stretching out the middle class to the point that a skilled trade, a non-higher education, can't be a successful/comfortable path for families anymore. I can offer my own perspective on why I believe this below:

Skilled trades take:

My career as a jeweler was good. Nothing wrong with that as a career path, then. Now not so much. Mostly because of financial reasons, with a bit of lifestyle requirements thrown in. A jeweler still works retail hours. Nights, weekends and through most major holidays. Financial I say these positions are in trouble at the peak of my career an an employee to a large firm (those little blue box guys) I tapped out at $25/hr. When I owned my own shop I had to be 6 days, 10+ hours a day and still made at most about $65k a year. None of this is bad money. Plenty subsist on less. But with a family and the current, last 10 years really, economic environment it is not a sustainable career to expect to pay for health, retirement and children's future. It only affords you a paycheck to paycheck subsistence. I had 4 years of intensive training, certifications, and specializations and yet took home less than $45k yearly at my highest earnings with a multi-billion dollar prestigious jewelry group.

Higher education take:

Before I even graduate, with barely 4 years in the actual field, I take home 4X what I ever did and although I do work for a large global company, this isn't a FAANGs that also has tremendous burnout. I have a great work-life balance, investment accounts, savings, and the ability to know that when I die my family won't be hurting, there will be a safety net. I can argue that my own tenacity, capabilities are what made a large amount of my success (humble brag maybe). However; I can definitively say Higher education bought me a seat at the table to make this a possibility. 

[shootingstar]

In all honesty as a visible minority to anyone who is BPIOC, I would be advising strongly get more formal training beyond HS. Also formal courses and designed programs with tests, where you are being graded against other students, etc. put one through next level of self-discipline and self-directed learning.

A person needs additional knowledge and skills to compete in the job marketplace in a broader geography with more job choices.  So all that crap, about being unqualified, you can have a stronger foundation to build up.

Yes, I have been asked by several employers to produce  a copy of university degree and transcript of marks.  This includes my current employer. Yes, dammit, most my jobs advertise asking my degree as part of the educational qualification in addition to work experience.

 

 

[12string]

When I graduated HS, I had got smart enough to drop out of college before I picked a college.

The plan was to get my head straight, then go back.  Plans change.  Life is good.

[Randomguy]

I went to the best university in the best university state in the universe, the Ohio State University.   I enjoyed my time there, and have a useless degree in Organizational Communications.

[Wilbur ★]

6 hours ago, shootingstar said:

In all honesty as a visible minority to anyone who is BPIOC, I would be advising strongly get more formal training beyond HS. Also formal courses and designed programs with tests, where you are being graded against other students, etc. put one through next level of self-discipline and self-directed learning.

A person needs additional knowledge and skills to compete in the job marketplace in a broader geography with more job choices.  So all that crap, about being unqualified, you can have a stronger foundation to build up.

Yes, I have been asked by several employers to produce  a copy of university degree and transcript of marks.  This includes my current employer. Yes, dammit, most my jobs advertise asking my degree as part of the educational qualification in addition to work experience.

 

 

What does being Asian origin have to do with this?  When I went to UBC, it was often called "University of a Billion Chinese".  They were favoured as a source of funding and that made attendance there quite difficult for average residents.  You need a 4.0 GPA to even be considered. 

[Wilbur ★]

2 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

I went to the best university in the best university state in the universe, the Ohio State University.   I enjoyed my time there, and have a useless degree in Organizational Communications.

That is the prerequisite for for "Gender Studies" right?   

[Randomguy]

31 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

That is the prerequisite for for "Gender Studies" right?   

I studied the other gender in college, it would be kind of odd not to, right?

[shootingstar]

5 hours ago, Wilbur said:

What does being Asian origin have to do with this?  When I went to UBC, it was often called "University of a Billion Chinese".  They were favoured as a source of funding and that made attendance there quite difficult for average residents.  You need a 4.0 GPA to even be considered. 

I meant competing for jobs which the job ad asks for degree in specific discipline plus related job experience.  I meant for visible minorities to get that required formal training also so one can be competing starting off from the same base in the job market. You know start off right vs. the old unqualified token crap.

As I said, because of some publicized areas of fraud due to a high ranking person claimed they had ie. education degree but they never did...not surprising some major employers routinely ask for a copy of degree and final yr. transcript.

Did you finish your degree at UBC? Or just move on over to other training..?  

[Wilbur ★]

1 hour ago, shootingstar said:

Did you finish your degree at UBC?

Yes, a BSc in Aeronautics. 

[Wilbur ★]

6 hours ago, Randomguy said:

I studied the other gender in college, it would be kind of odd not to, right?

There is no odd anymore.  

[bikeman564™]

[shootingstar]

50 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Yes, a BSc in Aeronautics. 

and BCIT was not in the cards at the time?  I heard they have a good aeronautics program. Probably one of the few from a CAnadian technical college / probably now university.

[Wilbur ★]

8 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

and BCIT was not in the cards at the time?  I heard they have a good aeronautics program. Probably one of the few from a CAnadian technical college / probably now university.

BCIT was a college, not a university. They did not have an aviation program at the time other than Pre-apprenticeship for mechanics.   Trinity Western had a great program but it was targeted at missionary pilots. Selkirk in Castlegar was the preferred college in the west and there are two in Ontario that are respectable. 

[shootingstar]

While we tend to put down importance of higher education, this is my brother-in-law and father of the rom-com writer-daughter.

University of Toronto Institute for Aerospace Studies Fusion Energy Team (utoronto.ca)

He, like dearie, given their personalities within our families, one would not know each person had a fairly high level of education. Dearie did his civil engineering degree and also later in life, MBA at York University....7 yrs. of evening classes!

[Wilbur ★]

6 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

While we tend to put down importance of higher education, this is my brother-in-law and father of the rom-com writer-daughter.

University of Toronto Institute for Aerospace Studies Fusion Energy Team (utoronto.ca)

He, like dearie, given their personalities within our families, one would not know each person had a fairly high level of education. Dearie did his civil engineering degree and also later in life, MBA at York University....7 yrs. of evening classes!

Excellent.  I don't think there are many here who put down higher education.  Provided it is of use.  A good friend of mine went to university longer than he did public school and graduated with an MBA. A really brilliant guy and he is and has always been a house painter.  Aside from the accounting education, he claims to use none of his knowledge from 12 years at UBC.  Some might say that was time wasted.  He sure does. 

[sheep_herder ★]

12 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Excellent.  I don't think there are many here who put down higher education.  Provided it is of use.  A good friend of mine went to university longer than he did public school and graduated with an MBA. A really brilliant guy and he is and has always been a house painter.  Aside from the accounting education, he claims to use none of his knowledge from 12 years at UBC.  Some might say that was time wasted.  He sure does. 

My father -in-law (building contractor in and around LA) would have set me up to work with sheet metal, if I had quit college and moved to California. The money was tempting, but I stayed the course. Did not regret my decision.