A Word of Acknowledgement

[Zealot]

I’ve seen a lot of long term Anniversary threads in here lately. I’ve also seen the sad threads where some have lost their spouses. 

I want to say thank you to those who’ve stuck it out; kept your vows and honored the ones you’ve chosen to cherish. 

This does my heart good and restores my faith in the sanctity of marriage.  

I know a lifelong commitment comes with many challenges. But I honestly believe there is no greater blessing on this earth. 

I spoke earlier of giving honor where honor is due. To those who make/made the journey, I salute you.

Peace.

[Square Wheels]

For me, it's been a joy.  We have no other plans than to grow old with each other.  We still love each other, a lot; but even better, we like each other.

[Rattlecan ★]

For some of us, the second time around is the charm. My first marriage lasted 21 years and I was ready to fight to make it work but when that sentiment is not shared by both parties, then it is not to be.

The next anniversary with wife 2.0 will be our 20th next May.

[shootingstar]

For us, it was not hard to be 100% dedicated to one another for nearly 29 yrs. Every day was a delight and blessing / eager to share. My memories are uplifted by his love as part of the whole.

 

[Razors Edge ★]

On 9/18/2022 at 11:53 AM, Zealot said:

This does my heart good and restores my faith in the sanctity of marriage.  

I know a lifelong commitment comes with many challenges. But I honestly believe there is no greater blessing on this earth. 

We're at 26 together, 19 married.  I gotta see what is the 20 yrs celebration.

But yeah, it especially makes me appreciate the shear JOY and the prior utter CRUELTY that the US (& world) faced (still faces) prior to June 12, 1967 (Loving) or November 18, 2003 (Goodridge).  

Wow. What a blessing for people who love each other to be able to marry really is and how hard fought it's been for many.

[sheep_herder ★]

Coming upon 60 years in November.

[Zealot]

On 9/18/2022 at 1:10 PM, Square Wheels said:

For me, it's been a joy.  We have no other plans than to grow old with each other.  We still love each other, a lot; but even better, we like each other.

Mrs Z and I started out as friends. We became best friends and then developed a romantic relationship.  

No matter what, she remains my best friend. And we truly enjoy each other’s company above all others.  🥰 

[Zealot]

1 minute ago, sheep_herder said:

Coming upon 60 years in November.

Awesome!!  Truly.  😊 

[Zealot]

4 minutes ago, sheep_herder said:

Coming upon 60 years in November.

At what age did you marry, if I may ask?

[Zealot]

On 9/18/2022 at 2:51 PM, shootingstar said:

For us, it was not hard to be 100% dedicated to one another for nearly 29 yrs. Every day was a delight and blessing / eager to share. My memories are uplifted by his love as part of the whole.

 

May those memories always comfort you, SS.  ❤️ 

[sheep_herder ★]

14 minutes ago, Zealot said:

At what age did you marry, if I may ask?

I was 20, and she was 21. We met at CSU in Fort Collins.

[Randomguy]

Sancitity of marriage?  Good marriages are good, bad are bad, and they are not in any way blessed, holy, or sacred.   Sanctity of marriage in the past sure included, but was not limited to, disapproval and illegality of gay marriage, interracial marriage, disapproval of marriage without heirs (boys, natch), marriage to folks of other religions, and at times approved of a bunch 'o wives, and all this with all kinds of nasty and seemingly ever-changing goalposts.  Sanctity of marriage is another of society's big yarns.

Everyone here would be EXACTLY as devoted to their significant others as they are now if they were married by priests, toddlers, demons, robots, cats, or not married at all  Pretending that a sanctioning being is necessary to be serious about your mate is pretty whacko.

 

 

[Zealot]

1 hour ago, sheep_herder said:

I was 20, and she was 21. We met at CSU in Fort Collins.

Again, this is awesome.  Mrs Z and I were both young as well. We met in high school. 

[Bikeguy]

On 9/18/2022 at 10:53 AM, Zealot said:

I’ve seen a lot of long term Anniversary threads in here lately. I’ve also seen the sad threads where some have lost their spouses. 

I want to say thank you to those who’ve stuck it out; kept your vows and honored the ones you’ve chosen to cherish. 

Yeah... I noticed that too.

It seems like many here have done way better then what is the 'average' when it comes to the length of long term relationships.  

We are on 40 years, 4 months and 26 days.   (not that I'm counting...  Excel does that for me)

A while back... I mentioned to WoBG...   "You do realize we have been married more than we were single."    60.5% of my life has been with WoBG.  (Excel is indeed useful) 

[Zealot]

7 hours ago, Bikeguy said:

Yeah... I noticed that too.

It seems like many here have done way better then what is the 'average' when it comes to the length of long term relationships.  

We are on 40 years, 4 months and 26 days.   (not that I'm counting...  Excel does that for me)

A while back... I mentioned to WoBG...   "You do realize we have been married more than we were single."    60.5% of my life has been with WoBG.  (Excel is indeed useful) 

Just did the math. Been married for 64.9% of my life. Been with Mrs Z. For 70.1%.   😊 I’ll tell her this tonight.

[Razors Edge ★]

7 hours ago, Bikeguy said:

Yeah... I noticed that too.

It seems like many here have done way better then what is the 'average' when it comes to the length of long term relationships.  

We are on 40 years, 4 months and 26 days.   (not that I'm counting...  Excel does that for me)

A while back... I mentioned to WoBG...   "You do realize we have been married more than we were single."    60.5% of my life has been with WoBG.  (Excel is indeed useful) 

Yeah, as we age, there get to be a lot of these milestones - married more than half, working more than half, known more than half, riding more than half, driving more than half sorts of things.

It really is an interesting way to measure the length and breadth of our lives.  Hopefully we can keep piling up positive milestones.  

But "the many here have done" is both a nice shout out, but also, whether implied or accidental or whatever, a shout out to the many here who have NOT done similar.  We have quite a few on second (maybe third?) marriages.  Quite a few NEVER married. Quite a few currently or recently in difficult marriages.  "Marriage" is both a simple and complex reflection of a relationship, and I'd say it is often cosmetic at best when viewed from outside - especially through a forum.  

I applaud folks who act like adults and work to make their lives and those around them lives better - and marriage, never marrying, or even divorce might be paths to that goal. NEVER stay in an abusive relationship (and yes, I mean NEVER).  Life is too short to "fix" other people, but also, we're all human, so compassion and empathy go a long way in understanding when sticking it out is better/worse than moving on. A "vow" is but a slim piece of that calculus.

[KrAzY]

October 6th marks our 21st anniversary. She told me that I’m still stuck with her and that I don’t have an option. 

[Zealot]

@Razors Edge, I meant what I wrote in my post. It was not a reflection on anyone who hasn’t been married, has had multiple marriages, or whatever. And it was not intended as a sleight.  It was however what it appears to be, an acknowledgement of something I value deeply. I’ve noticed some lengthy marriages here and I think that’s worthy of honor.

If you don’t like that, that is your prerogative. But I make no apologies.

I didn’t start this thread to debate with you. You are at complete liberty to believe what you do. So am I.

Peace.

[Dirtyhip]

Sanctity of marriage needs to be both parties involved in a focus of happiness for both parties.  Not all marriages should be preserved if one is miserable with the other.  

We have been married for 26 years.  This is a hapy marriage.  If is wasn't, I'd be gone.  There was a marriage in my family as a kid that lasted, but they disliked each other. Staying together for the kids was a distrous idea. 

[Longjohn ★]

18 hours ago, Zealot said:

Mrs Z and I started out as friends. We became best friends and then developed a romantic relationship.  

No matter what, she remains my best friend. And we truly enjoy each other’s company above all others.  🥰 

That was evident on Petite’s big adventure. I loved watching you two. You definitely were not faking it.

[Razors Edge ★]

9 minutes ago, Zealot said:

@Razors Edge, I meant what I wrote in my post. It was not a reflection on anyone who hasn’t been married, has had multiple marriages, or whatever. And it was not intended as a sleight.  It was however what it appears to be, an acknowledgement of something I value deeply. I’ve noticed some lengthy marriages here and I think that’s worthy of honor.

If you don’t like that, that is your prerogative. But I make no apologies.

I didn’t start this thread to debate with you. You are at complete liberty to believe what you do. So am I.

Peace.

I hear you. I just am not in the Pollyanna mode around things like marriage.  

I definitely appreciate folks who have found and are in healthy, happy, and strong marriages and relationships.  I hope folks find someone(s) they can love and grow with and share their lives with, etc.

But, again, it's unique to every single individual.  And, for the folks who post about their anniversaries - one year or 50 years - I'm gonna join them in their happiness at that achievement, but I'm not gonna hop on the train of just hitting staying married is worthy of anything more than as a data point in a larger picture.  When  SW says it been x yrs and a joy, that's awesome.  But that's very specific to him, and not marriage, dating, or relationships in general.

[Zealot]

11 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

I just am not in the Pollyanna mode around things like marriage.  

I love the implication here.

And you’ve not been asked to hop on any train. If you are here, you chose to be. 

You’ve expressed your opinions. 

[Razors Edge ★]

1 minute ago, Zealot said:

I love the implication here.

And you’ve not been asked to hop on any train. If you are here, you chose to be. 

I meant what I wrote  It wasn't meant as a sleight to any folks who may feel Pollyanna-ish in their hearts!

[Square Wheels]

28 minutes ago, Zealot said:

 And it was not intended as a sleight.  

I learned something new, I always thought it was slight.

[Razors Edge ★]

1 minute ago, Square Wheels said:

I learned something new, I always thought it was slight.

I think you're actually correct.  Sleight of hand (magicians) vs feeling slighted (insulted).

[Zealot]

2 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

I learned something new, I always thought it was slight.

Actually, you are correct. Slight is the correct word in this context. Sleight is deception.  

[Randomguy]

5 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

But, again, it's unique to every single individual.  And, for the folks who post about their anniversaries - one year or 50 years - I'm gonna join them in their happiness at that achievement, but I'm not gonna hop on the train of just hitting staying married is worthy of anything more than as a data point in a larger picture.  When  SW says it been x yrs and a joy, that's awesome.  But that's very specific to him, and not marriage, dating, or relationships in general.

Hell yeah, this!   

When someone posts their milestone, it is generally a happy time and a bit of backslapping is due for the extended happiness that is perceived.  When this perceived happiness is automatically extended for all lengthy marriages as some sort of an implied nodding societal approval in saccharin form, then it is pretty messed up.  Most marriages suck. 

If your marriage DOESN'T suck, then you flat out got lucky.  Lucky that your personalities mesh, that you have aligned goals, that you can stand each other for extended amounts of time, lucky that you both worked at it to balance things, lucky that feelings didn't change, etc.  You aren't in a happy marriage because long marriages are happy or that you are extra-special good in ways that other people are not.  Dumb luck with compatibility is it, you chose well, they chose well, and you both put up with a bit of bullshit because you like and respect each other.

My parents are happily married for near forever now.  My brother and his wife are very clearly bored with each other and seem to share few common interests, just going and getting dinner together a few times a week is their only interaction with each other.  But they like each other and are seemingly riding it out until death. 

My brother's marriage is way better than a lot of other folks who are literally miserable with their spouse and life, or the spouse is miserable in the same way.  No way is that worthy of applause simply because you are still together in an endurance contest, all while hoping for death of either of you in order to get some peace.

My personal observations are that half or more marriages end in divorce.  Of the remaining marriages, half of those have one or more miserable parties.  Of the 25% that are left, probably half are simply content with the spouse while not being super present emotionally, and the other half seem really, really happy together.

Not good odds, and no reason to celebrate marriage as sanctified in any way just based on length without context.   

[Razors Edge ★]

2 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

Most marriages suck. 

Many for sure. Most, hard to tell.

We all know dozens of married folks or couples in long term relationships.  Man, a few - from the outside looking in - are train wrecks that you want to avoid being around. Others are "normal" - filled with moments of drama, and periods of calm.  And then there are some that scream - those two were made for each other - complementary and well matched to being partners in life.  But, it is all across the spectrum regardless of duration.  Humans are complex.   Human relationships are complex².

[sheep_herder ★]

Between RG and RE I feel a draft in here.

[Kirby ★]

Well I've never been married, but I did have my last cat for 20 years.

 

[Randomguy]

31 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Human relationships are complex².

I find that in any of life's arenas, from marriages to planning a night out with friends, to having work meetings, that any additional person involved doubles the complexity of whatever.  I developed this theory from mountainbiking with friends in the early nineties.

I usually drove because I had a car and a bike rack that could hold four bikes. 

If it was just me, super simple, rack and go to the trail.  Add another, and that doubled the complexity and potential problems.  You could say "Hey, I am leaving at 9am, as soon as you are here, we go.".    Maybe they are five minutes late, whatever.  Add one more person, and now you double complexity again.  One person is probably gonna be late,  or didn't eat and wants to stop someplace.  Add a fourth, and someone will have a flat tire and need a tube or want to get lube or somesuch, and two of the people are going to be late, one by five minutes, one by 15 minutes or more, someone would have to make a phone call (before the days of cellphones), something.   More people, more problems.

Add a spouse, then kids, then invasive parasites like religion or wanna-be controlling in-laws, and you are gonna have trouble, that is a lot more complexity.  Best to be a hermit and live in a cave with a sex robot, I feel.

[Zealot]

13 minutes ago, Kirby said:

Well I've never been married, but I did have my last cat for 20 years.

 

And congratulations, in all sincerity. Pet ownership is also a commitment. At 20 years, you were certainly doing something right!  😊 

[Longjohn ★]

22 minutes ago, Kirby said:

Well I've never been married, but I did have my last cat for 20 years.

 

Close enough.

[shootingstar]

Am I the only person here who was in a terrific partnership for long enough,  but we weren't married?

Dearie had an ugly divorce that was also costly.  His marriage was 16 yrs. long, whereas he and I were together for 29 yrs.  

In the eyes of Canadian law we had common-in-law marriage/spouse.

Would getting married have improved our love for each other?  Great quality and spirit still would have been still the same.  Would getting married have given sanctity?  How is what we shared not sanctified, when we observed everything required (even from the Bible) ....sexual fidelity, mutual trust/respect, etc.  The same faith, respect, trust, attentiveness and fire for each other, would have still existed.  From all that I've been through post-death of dearie, marriage provides from a legal perspective (not religious):

*access to property/money

*defines responsibility for children

*exclusivity in that relationship (it doesn't involve a 2nd, 3rd partner, etc.)

Aside from above, living daily your love for each other, is totally on each partner in responsibility, behaviour and thought.  We can appeal to God to assist, but then each person must take the right steps. 

[shootingstar]

And yes, I do consider myself incredibly lucky to have met a guy like dearie and for us to have shared a large chunk of life together ...at the right time for both of us.

Just explaining --from someone who shared quality love for long enough. 

[Zealot]

3 hours ago, shootingstar said:

Would getting married have improved our love for each other?  Great quality and spirit still would have been still the same.  Would getting married have given sanctity?  How is what we shared not sanctified, when we observed everything required (even from the Bible) ....sexual fidelity, mutual trust/respect, etc.  The same faith, respect, trust, attentiveness and fire for each other, would have still existed. 

@shootingstar, I don’t think anyone claimed anything about the sanctity of your marriage relationship. Actually up to this point, I didn’t know that you two never ‘legally’ married. We have common law marriages here as well. 

I do not judge anyone’s marriage. And I am truly grateful that you and he had what you shared together and I meant whole heartedly what I stated early concerning the memories of your love together providing comfort. Since you’ve been on this forum, the accounts you’ve shared of your and your dearie’s love and respect for each other have always been uplifting and joyful. 

Every culture has its own customs and norms regarding marriage. Traditional American marriages were performed via a minister of some faith or a justice for those who didn’t claim a faith. But those weddings and trappings do not make a marriage. They are simply a public display or acknowledgement or two people choosing to join there lives together; to commit to each other. Yes, it usually provides legal benefits as well as responsibilities. But that’s how we’ve existed in our culture.  And I believe it is honorable.

In my ancestry, a marriage was displayed by a hand fasting ritual. Which I think is beautiful. In ancient Jewish culture, from which Christianity originated, a wedding was very different from what we do here. 

But my views on marriage stem from my Biblical beliefs, not from cultural relativism or idioms. God brought man and woman together in the garden, “Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.”

And Jesus later confirmed saying “Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.”

To me, this is marriage. By all accounts I've read over the years here, that is what you and your Dearie (apologies, I do not know his name), had. 

😊 

Peace, this day.