Ford Marketing Dept.

[Dirtyhip]

They are super helpful and nice.  Not super thrilled with my dealer.  The Ford company people were a completely different experience to talk to.  I called to confirm they did it right and how the recent news might affect our van.  She didn't see anything that I chose that would really slow the process.  Production is slowed compared to what was normal in previous years.  We'lll just keep saving all the pennies dollars, until we get the keys.   She laughed when I told her... GM was our family car since 1994.  She was diplomatic as heck, and just said "We are happy to have you in the family.  BLUE OVAL!!!!!  @Parr8hed

[Razors Edge ★]

I find dealing with a dealer  is really not too much fun.  Car sales guys are usually new sales folks hoping to make sales, and not really "experts" on the products they sell.  Not sure how you wade through the BS of the sales folks at any dealership, but with the churn at most, it's gotta be hard to even develop a long term relationship with a good one if you do find them.

Honestly, it still amazes me that the auto industry sales model is so FUBAR.  Some, obviously, are better than others, but in 2022, it should be such an easy process to get what you want at a transparent cost.  But it isn't and I haven't seen a ton of change in 20yrs.  Scary.

[petitepedal ★]

My friends husband is a car salesman..like 20 years.  He is gonna go with me to finalize everything on my cx 5

[ChrisL]

5 minutes ago, petitepedal said:

My friends husband is a car salesman..like 20 years.  He is gonna go with me to finalize everything on my cx 5

Ohh we’re gonna be twins!  Details details, trim, color???

[Dirtyhip]

11 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

I find dealing with a dealer  is really not too much fun.  Car sales guys are usually new sales folks hoping to make sales, and not really "experts" on the products they sell.  Not sure how you wade through the BS of the sales folks at any dealership, but with the churn at most, it's gotta be hard to even develop a long term relationship with a good one if you do find them.

Honestly, it still amazes me that the auto industry sales model is so FUBAR.  Some, obviously, are better than others, but in 2022, it should be such an easy process to get what you want at a transparent cost.  But it isn't and I haven't seen a ton of change in 20yrs.  Scary.

We brought in a 55 page configuration sheet for them, after they ordered the wrong van.  They took it to the back and I know they made a copy.  The clip I put on it came back twisted differently.   This vehicle can be configured a myriad of ways.  We were the Transit cargo experts at that dealership for sure.  

 

[ChrisL]

17 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

I find dealing with a dealer  is really not too much fun.  Car sales guys are usually new sales folks hoping to make sales, and not really "experts" on the products they sell.  Not sure how you wade through the BS of the sales folks at any dealership, but with the churn at most, it's gotta be hard to even develop a long term relationship with a good one if you do find them.

Honestly, it still amazes me that the auto industry sales model is so FUBAR.  Some, obviously, are better than others, but in 2022, it should be such an easy process to get what you want at a transparent cost.  But it isn't and I haven't seen a ton of change in 20yrs.  Scary.

When I bought my Mazda the dealerships where up front with me in that the price is the price.  They will not negotiate price any longer. I found this at all Mazda dealerships I went to which was 4 different ones.  So I had to find the car I wanted at the price point I wanted but I preferred this to dickering over price.

[Dirtyhip]

1 minute ago, ChrisL said:

When I bought my Mazda the dealerships where up front with me in that the price is the price.  They will not negotiate price any longer. I found this at all Mazda dealerships I went to which was 4 different ones.  So I had to find the car I wanted at the price point I wanted but I preferred this to dickering over price.

MSRP for me too, especially for this van.  Lots of demand is not great for a consumer.

[Razors Edge ★]

1 minute ago, ChrisL said:

When I bought my Mazda the dealerships where up front with me in that the price is the price.  They will not negotiate price any longer. I found this at all Mazda dealerships I went to which was 4 different ones.  So I had to find the car I wanted at the price point I wanted but I preferred this to dickering over price.

I find the "price is the price" is fine, but I can't say wandering a lot, looking at each car's sticker is "fun" or efficient, and I think that is the part where a good salesperson would be helpful - ie "What do you want?  Okay, let me check...there is one right over here.".  Generally not my experience

[Scrapr ★]

I was very worried about the Volvo Overseas de livery order process too. Lots of "chatter" about dealers messing up options & so forth. I went into the dealer & asked the salesman how many OSD he has done. He replied about 125. I'mlike.....OK you are the guy. He let me input each option so it anything FUBAR'd then it was on me!

[Parsnip Totin Jack ★]

I read that Ford is going in the direction that Tesla blazed. Consumers will order vehicles directly from Ford and will be delivered to the consumer. Goal is to make it easier for the consumer and increase profits for Ford. Dealerships aren’t happy about that. 

[Razors Edge ★]

1 minute ago, Scrapr said:

Volvo Overseas de livery order process too

They strap the paint and decals?!?!?  That seems awful!

[Razors Edge ★]

1 minute ago, Old No. 7 said:

I read that Ford is going in the direction that Tesla blazed. Consumers will order vehicles directly from Ford and will be delivered to the consumer. Goal is to make it easier for the consumer and increase profits for Ford. Dealerships aren’t happy about that. 

They better hire a better web development team.  Right now, it's more a marketing tool and neither an informational tool nor a build/spec tool   I bet Tesla is more restrictive and thus clearer in their options list.

[Scrapr ★]

2 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

They strap the paint and decals?!?!?  That seems awful!

unfortunate space bar error

[Dirtyhip]

Just now, Scrapr said:

I was very worried about the Volvo Overseas de livery order process too. Lots of "chatter" about dealers messing up options & so forth. I went into the dealer & asked the salesman how many OSD he has done. He replied about 125. I'mlike.....OK you are the guy. He let me input each option so it anything FUBAR'd then it was on me!

I am thankful for my partner.  He is so smart.  He was the one to notice the problem.  He also was the one that chose our important options.  We chose to avoid too many extensive upgrades.  Just simple standard stuff.  Like, the motorized door causing delays.  Ours is a standard pull.  Hardly any fancy extras.  Keep it simple. 

[ChrisL]

3 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

I find the "price is the price" is fine, but I can't say wandering a lot, looking at each car's sticker is "fun" or efficient, and I think that is the part where a good salesperson would be helpful - ie "What do you want?  Okay, let me check...there is one right over here.".  Generally not my experience

It was actually an online search for me as sites like cars.com do the work for you.  Once I was set on the make, model & year range (which did require a fair amount of time at a dealership checking out cars & test driving) I did an online search until I found my car. I reached out to the dealer via Cars.com, set up an appt and they had the car ready for me when I got there.  Easy peasy.
 

I’m interested to know how @petitepedal experience will be.

[Dirtyhip]

5 minutes ago, Old No. 7 said:

I read that Ford is going in the direction that Tesla blazed. Consumers will order vehicles directly from Ford and will be delivered to the consumer. Goal is to make it easier for the consumer and increase profits for Ford. Dealerships aren’t happy about that. 

Interesting.  

[Parsnip Totin Jack ★]

10 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

They better hire a better web development team.  Right now, it's more a marketing tool and neither an informational tool nor a build/spec tool   I bet Tesla is more restrictive and thus clearer in their options list.

I respectfully disagree. I’ve used their site to build vehicles and see what the options and prices are. Always worked well for me. 

[Razors Edge ★]

4 minutes ago, Old No. 7 said:

I respectfully disagree. I’ve used their site to build vehicles and see what the options and prices are. Always worked well for me. 

I find it a "too much" is just as bad as too little?  But, some cars/vehicles are likely less like that than others?  Pick a color, pick an interior, and pick the radio/electronic package you want and you're good to go.

[Dirtyhip]

3 minutes ago, Old No. 7 said:

I respectfully disagree. I’ve used their site to build vehicles and see what the options and prices are. Always worked well for me. 

They do need to update.  When I priced it, the prices were all for the 2022.  I went in the next day and you can't bulld a 2022 anymore.  That should have been updated.  Luckily the sticker shock didn't send us walking.  I verified all the prices.  Exactly MSRP for the 2023.

[Razors Edge ★]

5 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

They do need to update.  When I priced it, the prices were all for the 2022.  I went in the next day and you can't bulld a 2022 anymore.  That should have been updated.  Luckily the sticker shock didn't send us walking.  I verified all the prices.  Exactly MSRP for the 2023.

It's actually interesting as you dig into car building & ordering, a lot of the resources are second-hand rather than on the manufacturer's website.  A traditional list of options and cost, in a single document (like a PDF), would make it pretty straightforward. As it stands, if you mapped out the more complex "paths" through options and restrictions would be a pile of spaghetti!  On a vehicle with one engine, one drivetrain, and one floorpan? Not too tough. If you get into multiples of EACH, it goes sideways fast. 

[Parr8hed]

1 hour ago, Dirtyhip said:

They are super helpful and nice.  Not super thrilled with my dealer.  The Ford company people were a completely different experience to talk to.  I called to confirm they did it right and how the recent news might affect our van.  She didn't see anything that I chose that would really slow the process.  Production is slowed compared to what was normal in previous years.  We'lll just keep saving all the pennies dollars, until we get the keys.   She laughed when I told her... GM was our family car since 1994.  She was diplomatic as heck, and just said "We are happy to have you in the family.  BLUE OVAL!!!!!  @Parr8hed

Yay!  Blue Oval.  Obviously I am a fan.  Let's see, just since I have been married we have had 2 Expeditions, 4 Explorers, 2 Rangers an F150 and an F350.  Some of those have been really new some not so much.  Some have just been beaters until we could afford something nicer.  The Expeditions are awesome.  My f150 is hands down the best vehicle I have ever owned.  Jenny's current Explorer is amazing.  And the f350 is a BEAST of a truck. 

55 minutes ago, Old No. 7 said:

I read that Ford is going in the direction that Tesla blazed. Consumers will order vehicles directly from Ford and will be delivered to the consumer. Goal is to make it easier for the consumer and increase profits for Ford. Dealerships aren’t happy about that. 

It is harder and harder to go into a dealership and just buy what you want.  Most of the guys on the super duty facebook pages struggle to find anything new, just order it.  There are quite a few people that order brand new fully loaded trucks.  When they get delivered they turn right around and sell them, usually making 10 grand plus on the deal.  They then turn around and order another new one.  Always have one on order.  It is a good way to make 40 grand a year for doing nothing. 

[Kirby ★]

Spoke with a coworker yesterday who was in the car buying process for himself and so were some of his relatives.  For some popular models, in stock cars are going $8,000 above MSRP.  The extra amount is called something like a "market fee".  Other models were going at MSRP, but there was definitely no negotiating on those.  He ended up going a couple hundred miles away to get the car he wanted for his wife.

[maddmaxx ★]

1 hour ago, Razors Edge said:

I find dealing with a dealer  is really not too much fun.  Car sales guys are usually new sales folks hoping to make sales, and not really "experts" on the products they sell.  Not sure how you wade through the BS of the sales folks at any dealership, but with the churn at most, it's gotta be hard to even develop a long term relationship with a good one if you do find them.

Honestly, it still amazes me that the auto industry sales model is so FUBAR.  Some, obviously, are better than others, but in 2022, it should be such an easy process to get what you want at a transparent cost.  But it isn't and I haven't seen a ton of change in 20yrs.  Scary.

I was told by a dealership that they wouldn't hire me to sell cars because I knew too much about them.  Later when I went to work as a commissioned salesman in a big box store I found out that they prefered we knew more about selling than the product.  They sent us to school to learn how to up sell people.

What's the price................How much are you prepared to pay

I broke all the rules there by learning so much about the product that I was able to sell what the customer needed.  Because of that friends of customers began to show up at the store asking for me.  The store manager came down to the floor one day and watched me sell 4 vacuum cleaners to 4 couples all at the same time.  She almost choked when I told the customers to think about what I showed them and that I would be available over at the register if they wanted to buy.  Later she let on that she had to find out why they needed to order an extra pallet of Panasonic vacuum cleaners just to account for my sales.  She found out that I made up in volume for selling the best cleaner, not the most expensive.

[Parsnip Totin Jack ★]

10 minutes ago, Parr8hed said:

When they get delivered they turn right around and sell them, usually making 10 grand plus on the deal.  They then turn around and order another new one.  Always have one on order.  It is a good way to make 40 grand a year for doing nothing. 

F-250’s and some color tv’s…

[Dirtyhip]

2 minutes ago, Kirby said:

Spoke with a coworker yesterday who was in the car buying process for himself and so were some of his relatives.  For some popular models, in stock cars are going $8,000 above MSRP.  The extra amount is called something like a "market fee".  Other models were going at MSRP, but there was definitely no negotiating on those.  He ended up going a couple hundred miles away to get the car he wanted for his wife.

We have a signed purchase order, price plus options.  We are paying a D & D fee of 1700.  I believe that is customary, but maybe that is where they gouged us harder. 

[maddmaxx ★]

4 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

We have a signed purchase order, price plus options.  We are paying a D & D fee of 1700.  I believe that is customary, but maybe that is where they gouged us harder. 

Delivery charges (dealer prep) should be running around $400.  They are hurting so much though for volume that they have to gouge someone.  My local Toyota dealership has no new cars on the lot.  A truckload arrives about once a week and the cars are run straight through prep and delivered to customers.  They told me they are staying alive on service.  After my last service visit there I can understand why........and I moved my service to an honest shop in town.

[Dirtyhip]

21 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

Delivery charges (dealer prep) should be running around $400.  They are hurting so much though for volume that they have to gouge someone.  My local Toyota dealership has no new cars on the lot.  A truckload arrives about once a week and the cars are run straight through prep and delivered to customers.  They told me they are staying alive on service.  After my last service visit there I can understand why........and I moved my service to an honest shop in town.

You might be a little off about D & D fees.  2021 article on KBB lists it from 900-1700.  That was before the energy spike.  $400, I don't think so.  

https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/what-are-destination-charges/

[maddmaxx ★]

1 minute ago, Dirtyhip said:

You might be a little off about D & D fees.  2021 article on KBB lists it from 900-1700.  That was before the energy spike.  $400, I don't think so.  

https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/what-are-destination-charges/

Could be.  I purchased my last car in 17.  It's still too high.

[Razors Edge ★]

1 minute ago, Dirtyhip said:

You might be a little off about D & D fees.  2021 article on KBB lists it from 900-1700.  That was before the energy spike.  $400, I don't think so.  

https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/what-are-destination-charges/

I see $1,795 for D&D on the stickers, so not sure how much wiggle there is for them in that?  As interest rates go up, I'm starting to see small discounts pop up of $500-$2,000 off vehicles on the lot (~$50k MSRP), so there is a little softening again.

[Dirtyhip]

2 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

Could be.  I purchased my last car in 17.  It's still too high.

I am not sure what it costs to truck the vehicles from Dearborn or wherever they are coming from.  

[Dirtyhip]

8 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

I see $1,795 for D&D on the stickers, so not sure how much wiggle there is for them in that?  As interest rates go up, I'm starting to see small discounts pop up of $500-$2,000 off vehicles on the lot (~$50k MSRP), so there is a little softening again.

Non-negotiable from what I understand.  We really had a win when we bought the GM.  Sticker was 43 grand.  We brought it home at 34.  No trade.  All cash.  It was the end of the month.  The models had updated their body style and ours was the older look.  The salerperson was quitting. He told me it was his last week there.  WIN!

We sold the truck for about 2 grand less than we bought it for, after driving it for 3 years and putting a good dent in the front bumper.  We had no FOBs either.  We threw them in the woods, I guess. 

[maddmaxx ★]

5 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

I am not sure what it costs to truck the vehicles from Dearborn or wherever they are coming from.  

It would be delivered whether you paid for it or not.  A good slice is pure profit for a wash and wax.  

[Dirtyhip]

Just now, maddmaxx said:

It would be delivered whether you paid for it or not.  A good slice is pure profit for a wash and wax.  

Good point.  Oh, I miss those days of negotiation.  It seems like a consumer war these days.  

[maddmaxx ★]

8 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

Good point.  Oh, I miss those days of negotiation.  It seems like a consumer war these days.  

For a couple of years I was a regional salesman for Stewart Warner.  I was the factory rep for western CT.  Back in the 70's one of the big dealer prep charges was for undercoating cars.  They would pocket $400 for the job and I would sell them $29 worth of material.  Then the Japanese car makers started undercoating cars properly and additional undercoating actually damaged them.  That scam died out.  There are more.  I can get a wash and past wax job at a local car wash for $49 and it takes about an hour.  It's an exceptional wash shop though that handles everything up to full detailing.  All the custom car folks in eastern CT go there.

The majority of dealer profit on new cars these days (pre price gouging due to shortages) was in the extras sold in addition to the car.  The other profit is in the markup on trade ins.  Think about most new cars trickling down to 3 or 4 trade ins for progressively older cars and that's the total value of a new car sale.

[Razors Edge ★]

6 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

It would be delivered whether you paid for it or not.  A good slice is pure profit for a wash and wax.  

If there is a sticker price of $50,000. With $40k base, $8,300 options, and $1,700 D&D - if you negotiate a final price of $49k, $48k, or $45k, I guess you can claim victory or defeat on any those.  I got D&D free! Or, I got them to throw in options for free! Or I got them to knock down the starting price!

[Dirtyhip]

1 minute ago, Razors Edge said:

If there is a sticker price of $50,000. With $40k base, $8,300 options, and $1,700 D&D - if you negotiate a final price of $49k, $48k, or $45k, I guess you can claim victory or defeat on any those.  I got D&D free! Or, I got them to throw in options for free! Or I got them to knock down the starting price!

Negotiate?  That is so 2019.  

[maddmaxx ★]

1 minute ago, Razors Edge said:

If there is a sticker price of $50,000. With $40k base, $8,300 options, and $1,700 D&D - if you negotiate a final price of $49k, $48k, or $45k, I guess you can claim victory or defeat on any those.  I got D&D free! Or, I got them to throw in options for free! Or I got them to knock down the starting price!

Right now shortages are driving the market.  It's not realistic.  It's like selling a house and having buyers out bidding each other.

[maddmaxx ★]

It's like finding this ad.

New 2022 Jeep Grand Wagoneer For Sale at GENGRAS MOTOR CARS | VIN: 1C4SJVGJ7NS112582

You have got to be shitting me.

[Razors Edge ★]

Just now, maddmaxx said:

It's like finding this ad.

New 2022 Jeep Grand Wagoneer For Sale at GENGRAS MOTOR CARS | VIN: 1C4SJVGJ7NS112582

You have got to be shitting me.

It is 2022, not 1992, so, nope. Not kidding you.

I remember when you could get a car for less than I spend on flights these days.

[maddmaxx ★]

2 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

It is 2022, not 1992, so, nope. Not kidding you.

I remember when you could get a car for less than I spend on flights these days.

No wonder that so many yuppie kids have to move back in with mom and dad.  2022 must be the year of the robber baron and everyone seems willing and able to bend over.

[Razors Edge ★]

8 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

No wonder that so many yuppie kids have to move back in with mom and dad.  2022 must be the year of the robber baron and everyone seems willing and able to bend over.

I don't know a lot of "yuppie" kids that are living at home.  The yuppies are the ones who are actually out and in the work force (and likely driving the consumer engine).  I'd worry more about the non-yuppie folks who are adrift.  They're likely stuck trying to compete in a world that is focused more on "I got mine" than "let's all work together and make this place better".  

Of course, again, I only know so many yuppies, but they seem to all be doing fine. 

[Dirtyhip]

17 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

It's like finding this ad.

New 2022 Jeep Grand Wagoneer For Sale at GENGRAS MOTOR CARS | VIN: 1C4SJVGJ7NS112582

You have got to be shitting me.

[maddmaxx ★]

3 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

I don't know a lot of "yuppie" kids that are living at home.  The yuppies are the ones who are actually out and in the work force (and likely driving the consumer engine).  I'd worry more about the non-yuppie folks who are adrift.  They're likely stuck trying to compete in a world that is focused more on "I got mine" than "let's all work together and make this place better".  

Of course, again, I only know so many yuppies, but they seem to all be doing fine. 

Or will be once they get the loans forgiven.

[Dirtyhip]

1 minute ago, Razors Edge said:

I don't know a lot of "yuppie" kids that are living at home.  The yuppies are the ones who are actually out and in the work force (and likely driving the consumer engine).  I'd worry more about the non-yuppie folks who are adrift.  They're likely stuck trying to compete in a world that is focused more on "I got mine" than "let's all work together and make this place better".  

Of course, again, I only know so many yuppies, but they seem to all be doing fine. 

I have a yuppie pal.  They are bankrolling all kinds of fun toys.  Brand new F350.  Brand new luxe trailer with all the goods.  Side by side 4x4 thing.  Boat.  A fine property that they are always improving and having professionally fixed/upgraded, and a brand new Ford Explorer.  These fun purchases were within the last year or so.  They have owned their home for a while now.  That was the only thing they didn't need/want to buy.  

She showed me some blueprints for a new garage space.   That is likely next.  I talked her out of the in ground pool last year.  Winter climate and a pool is not a wise real estate upgrade.  It could actually prevent a sale of your home.  

[Razors Edge ★]

5 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

I have a yuppie pal.  They are bankrolling all kinds of fun toys.  Brand new F350.  Brand new luxe trailer with all the goods.  Side by side 4x4 thing.  Boat.  A fine property that they are always improving and having professionally fixed/upgraded, and a brand new Ford Explorer.  These fun purchases were within the last year or so.  They have owned their home for a while now.  That was the only thing they didn't need/want to buy.  

She showed me some blueprints for a new garage space.   That is likely next.  I talked her out of the in ground pool last year.  Winter climate and a pool is not a wise real estate upgrade.  It could actually prevent a sale of your home.  

I know lots of folks like that and lots more like me (and you).  I'm too "will I use it enough to justify it" to go crazy on stuff, but others seem to be happy living that life.

8 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

Or will be once they get the loans forgiven.

Sure, that's the ticket!