Guess, property tax deferral for senior..if desperate

[shootingstar]

In our province, I guess it's great for seniors over 65 to get property tax deferral if they apply to provincial govn't.  Nothing to do with being low income since that's not part of the eligibility.  Of course you have to allow govn't to register against your home title, in case ....  Good thing, I guess if inflation is cratering your budget.  Seniors Property Tax Deferral Program | Alberta.ca

Or you have a fantastic confident investment strategy that is bullet-proof 100% works, you will reap gains from stock sell-off  all this property tax deferral which one will still have to pay in the end.    Who in the hell, wants to deal with this..plus probate fees at death?

I haven't checked if Ontario has this, but I know darn well my parents have paid their property tax annually....and they are poor. Pay it now, and be done with it. 

[shootingstar]

I realize some people on principle don't want to pay property tax.  

It's hard for me to respect such folks..for the daily services and infrastructure in their community, they take for granted.

[Bikeguy]

5 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

I realize some people on principle don't want to pay property tax.  

You don't pay your property taxes in our state and after 30 months, the county can sell the tax liability.   The person (or company) who pays the taxes, ultimately can gain title to your home.  At least that's my understanding about how it works in Illinois. 

Based on income (if it below a limit) you can have your property taxes 'frozen' here.  And there are some reduction too.  At least your property taxes won't go up.   

Even after own your home (no mortgage),  you need to be sure to pay the property tax rent to the county.  If you don't pay you can (and most likely will) get evicted.   

I'm not sure how it works in the other states, but that is how it works here. 

[MickinMD ★]

2 hours ago, shootingstar said:

In our province, I guess it's great for seniors over 65 to get property tax deferral if they apply to provincial govn't.  Nothing to do with being low income since that's not part of the eligibility.  Of course you have to allow govn't to register against your home title, in case ....  Good thing, I guess if inflation is cratering your budget.  Seniors Property Tax Deferral Program | Alberta.ca

Or you have a fantastic confident investment strategy that is bullet-proof 100% works, you will reap gains from stock sell-off  all this property tax deferral which one will still have to pay in the end.    Who in the hell, wants to deal with this..plus probate fees at death?

I haven't checked if Ontario has this, but I know darn well my parents have paid their property tax annually....and they are poor. Pay it now, and be done with it. 

We have that, too, in Anne Arundel County, Maryland, though it's based on need.  Poor seniors can also get some home improvements related to insulation and lower energy bills.  Of course, it's all charged as a lean against the property when it's sold, but it is less of a drain against the property than a reverse mortgage is because a reverse mortgage pays a lot less than the house is worth.

I've heard of people who get reverse mortgages because it's the only way they can make ends meet and It doesn't hurt them until the house is sold, which might mean they don't have enough money to move into assisted living centers, etc.

[shootingstar]

4 hours ago, MickinMD said:

We have that, too, in Anne Arundel County, Maryland, though it's based on need.  Poor seniors can also get some home improvements related to insulation and lower energy bills.  Of course, it's all charged as a lean against the property when it's sold, but it is less of a drain against the property than a reverse mortgage is because a reverse mortgage pays a lot less than the house is worth.

I've heard of people who get reverse mortgages because it's the only way they can make ends meet and It doesn't hurt them until the house is sold, which might mean they don't have enough money to move into assisted living centers, etc.

Some heavy duty marketing on reverse mortgages to seniors up here in CAnada for past decade or so.  Sometimes it's sold as a way for retired folks to help with their child's first home mortgage. 

[shootingstar]

7 hours ago, Bikeguy said:

You don't pay your property taxes in our state and after 30 months, the county can sell the tax liability.   The person (or company) who pays the taxes, ultimately can gain title to your home.  At least that's my understanding about how it works in Illinois. 

Based on income (if it below a limit) you can have your property taxes 'frozen' here.  And there are some reduction too.  At least your property taxes won't go up.   

Even after own your home (no mortgage),  you need to be sure to pay the property tax rent to the county.  If you don't pay you can (and most likely will) get evicted.   

I'm not sure how it works in the other states, but that is how it works here. 

No doubt enough people there get unpleasantly surprised.

[Razors Edge ★]

8 hours ago, Bikeguy said:

Even after own your home (no mortgage),  you need to be sure to pay the property tax rent to the county. 

Where I am, police, fire, ambulance, schools, parks, some roads, and quite a few other things continue to need funding even after I pay off my mortgage.  It would be interesting to consider if the country is moving towards "red lining" of folks who choose not to support things via taxes, and therefore can save on their rent property taxes each year.  Sort of Robocop dystopia.  That would be awesome.  Folks love toll roads, so imagine toll sidewalks!  Don't pay, figure out your own way to get some independent force to deal with your crime, fires, health emergency, what not.  It usually ends well. 

[Bikeguy]

59 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Where I am, police, fire, ambulance, schools, parks, some roads, and quite a few other things continue to need funding even after I pay off my mortgage.

Many, if not most, banks here make paying the your property tax part of the monthly mortgage payment to the bank.  That way the bank has the property tax money and they pay it to the county.  Then they don't have to worry about their asset being sold at a tax sale before the mortgage is paid.  

Me... I insisted I pay my own taxes directly to the county.  The bank agreed to let me do that.  I guess they figured I was not much of a risk to them, otherwise they would have insisted that I pay them the monthly installment for the property taxes. 

I called it rent.. I get to pay the county $14K a year.  If I don't, ultimately I get evicted.    Yeah I could have built a smaller home... I lived in a small home for decades.  Yeah we did it backwards... 

[Razors Edge ★]

2 minutes ago, Bikeguy said:

Many, if not most, banks here make paying the your property tax part of the monthly mortgage payment to the bank.  That way the bank has the property tax money and they pay it to the county.  Then they don't have to worry about their asset being sold at a tax sale before the mortgage is paid.  

Me... I insisted I pay my own taxes directly to the county.  The bank agreed to let me do that.  I guess they figured I was not much of a risk to them, otherwise they would have insisted that I pay them the monthly installment for the property taxes. 

I called it rent.. I get to pay the county $14K a year.  If I don't, ultimately I get evicted.    Yeah I could have built a smaller home... I lived in a small home for decades.  Yeah we did it backwards... 

Yeah, our mortgage puts money into escrow and pays the taxes twice a year out of that account.  Every so often, they miscalculate the taxes for the year and you add or get back some of that.  If I get it back, I just tell them to apply it to the next payment.  

But, mortgage folks definitely figured out that they must protect folks from themselves in that respect.  Probably makes sense for them to protect their asset.

[Bikeguy]

1 hour ago, Razors Edge said:

Don't pay,

You pay here... the rules are set up here if you don't you lose and could be homeless.  

This is not my county... but they have a good explanation about how you can lose your home, if you don't pay your property taxes.  And what you have to do to try to keep it. 

https://www.lakecountyil.gov/292/Tax-Redemption-Process#:~:text=End of November%2FBeginning of,with the lowest bid winning.

[Razors Edge ★]

1 minute ago, Bikeguy said:

You pay here... the rules are set up here if you don't you lose and could be homeless.

My point was that the future where folks stop supporting the parks, schools, fire, police, ambulances, infrastructure, and other stuff in their communities is gonna be GREAT.  Right now, there are guard rails on insanity, but we'll get past that.

[Kirby ★]

I'd think a deferral program could work in limited circumstances  where there is a temporary ability to work due to injury/illness/job loss etc.  But the deferred amounts continue to accrue interest.  The site indicates that you have to have at least 25% equity in the house to qualify.  What's not clear is what happens if you have the required equity at start, but get below the 25% level due to accrued amounts or a decrease in home value in a recession.  Does that trigger the loan becoming due or is that amount only measured at the start of the loan?

NYS has some partial property tax exemptions for elderly, disabled, veterans etc. as well as some rebates that are income based.  They're not a full exemption, but they help reduce the burden.  I believe, you can also get additional rebates for people who volunteer for local volunteer fire departments or ambulance services.

[Bikeguy]

53 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

My point was that the future where folks stop supporting the parks, schools, fire, police, ambulances, infrastructure, and other stuff in their communities is gonna be GREAT.  

I just saying... that is almost guaranteed not to happen here.   Someone else will gladly buy my home for the back taxes.   That's a LOT of incentive to pay.   At least where I live.

In some neighborhoods.. you may not pay...  and things start to decay rather fast.

[JerrySTL ★]

9 hours ago, Bikeguy said:

You don't pay your property taxes in our state and after 30 months, the county can sell the tax liability.   The person (or company) who pays the taxes, ultimately can gain title to your home.  At least that's my understanding about how it works in Illinois. 

Based on income (if it below a limit) you can have your property taxes 'frozen' here.  And there are some reduction too.  At least your property taxes won't go up.   

Even after own your home (no mortgage),  you need to be sure to pay the property tax rent to the county.  If you don't pay you can (and most likely will) get evicted.   

I'm not sure how it works in the other states, but that is how it works here. 

About 20 years ago I built a database for a small company that bought delinquent property taxes in Illinois and other states. Basically it's like you said where someone pays the property tax; the owner of the property can then pay back that person with up to 18% interest; and if they don't in a specific time, the payer of the delinquent tax can get the title to the property. It's a cumbersome process that must be done exactly right or the person paying the taxes can lose money. You also have to spend some time making sure that the property is worth investing in. For example, a burned-out hulk is probably worthless unless the land is in a really good area. The idea is that the county gets at least some of the property tax money and doesn't have to worry about having tax collectors chasing the money down. It's also subject to abuse. The Madison County Illinois treasurer was caught fixing the auctions so that people who paid him money under the table won the bids and at the maximum of 18% interest. The people I worked for didn't do Madison County as they knew it was crooked. They also did some other states, like Florida, so the laws were similar there.

I get a tax reduction due to being over 65 years old here in Illinois. It's about $600 but my property tax is still higher than many other states. I don't qualify for the 'frozen' as I have too much retirement income. Illinios has the highest number of government entities of any other state. That's one reason that our taxes are so high.

[Razors Edge ★]

Just now, Bikeguy said:

I just saying... that is almost guaranteed not to happen here.   Some else will gladly buy your home for the back taxes.   That's a LOT of incentive to pay.   At least where I live.

In some neighborhoods.. you may not pay...  and things start to decay rather fast.

http://static1.squarespace.com/static/53dd6676e4b0fedfbc26ea91/54b6c509e4b062126976d942/5faa8b399895cf65a66fcff7/1605028360180/hazelridge.jpg?format=1500w

Prop 23a! A proposition for folks to OPT OUT of taxes and secure their freedom from tyranny.  

Coming soon to a county near you!

[Bikeguy]

5 minutes ago, JerrySTL said:

I don't qualify for the 'frozen' as I have too much retirement income. Illinios has the highest number of government entities of any other state. That's one reason that our taxes are so high.

Yeah...  I'm lucky to have enough income to not get my taxes frozen either.  

IL is #2 on the list of the highest property taxes.   (NJ is #1)

5 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Prop 23a! A proposition for folks to OPT OUT of taxes and secure their freedom from tyranny.  

Coming soon to a county near you!

They were smart fiendish enough to not allow 'propositions' to exist in IL.   They like the cash cow they continue to milk to death.  Until the cow dies...   That day will be interesting.  

 

[shootingstar]

4 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

My point was that the future where folks stop supporting the parks, schools, fire, police, ambulances, infrastructure, and other stuff in their communities is gonna be GREAT.  Right now, there are guard rails on insanity, but we'll get past that.

Um...yea.  toll sidewalks.  People also forget administrative costs to administer toll highway/bridge, etc.  Sometimes it works.