12string Posted December 6, 2022 Share #1 Posted December 6, 2022 I was buying massage gift cards, and saw the note that girls under 18 can only be massaged by a female. What about boys under 18? I mean, pretty sure I know their preference on this, but.... And what if the girl or masseuse (or both) are gay? Which then goes to, with all of this gender identity an bathroom hubbub - would you care more if your bathroom or locker room was inhabited by someone of the opposite sex, or someone of the same sex but gay? It's all so confusing. I, however, do not care one bit whichever. Americans are way to hung up about nudity and such anyway 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post jsharr ★ Posted December 6, 2022 Popular Post Share #2 Posted December 6, 2022 7 minutes ago, 12string said: I was buying massage gift cards, and saw the note that girls under 18 can only be massaged by a female. What about boys under 18? I mean, pretty sure I know their preference on this, but.... And what if the girl or masseuse (or both) are gay? Which then goes to, with all of this gender identity an bathroom hubbub - would you care more if your bathroom or locker room was inhabited by someone of the opposite sex, or someone of the same sex but gay? It's all so confusing. I, however, do not care one bit whichever. Americans are way to hung up about nudity and such anyway What are you wearing? 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoseySusan Posted December 6, 2022 Share #3 Posted December 6, 2022 8 minutes ago, 12string said: And what if the girl or masseuse (or both) are gay? I ran into this situation with the debate team and overnight tournaments. Gay girlfriends shared a hotel room with two other girls who didn’t mind, but there were girls on the team who requested to not be assigned a room with them. And a couple of boys who didn’t want to room with their gay teammate. I don’t think it’s nudity, per se, as much as uncovered genitalia. We’re probably ok with butt cheeks, 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parr8hed Posted December 6, 2022 Share #4 Posted December 6, 2022 10 minutes ago, MoseySusan said: I ran into this situation with the debate team and overnight tournaments. Gay girlfriends shared a hotel room with two other girls who didn’t mind, but there were girls on the team who requested to not be assigned a room with them. And a couple of boys who didn’t want to room with their gay teammate. I don’t think it’s nudity, per se, as much as uncovered genitalia. We’re probably ok with butt cheeks, Interesting questions that I had never really even considered. And with a 15 year old daughter that is going to be playing high school softball this year I guess those talks are probably coming soon. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12string Posted December 6, 2022 Author Share #5 Posted December 6, 2022 51 minutes ago, jsharr said: What are you wearing? the issue would only occur when wearing nothing, I suppose. Or in the case of a massage, almost nothing, since there's a lot of touching involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12string Posted December 6, 2022 Author Share #6 Posted December 6, 2022 37 minutes ago, MoseySusan said: Gay girlfriends shared a hotel room Curious - did the school allow male/female couples to share a room? That's a step beyond the questions I was asking, but another thing we are going to have to figure out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisL Posted December 6, 2022 Share #7 Posted December 6, 2022 53 minutes ago, Parr8hed said: Interesting questions that I had never really even considered. And with a 15 year old daughter that is going to be playing high school softball this year I guess those talks are probably coming soon. We had a female trainer for girls sports but the same female trainer also assisted with football (with a male trainer). But my daughters HS kept a female trainer for girl athletes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted December 6, 2022 Share #8 Posted December 6, 2022 1 hour ago, 12string said: under 18 Luckily, the magic pixie dust makes it all go away at the instant they turn 18. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoseySusan Posted December 6, 2022 Share #9 Posted December 6, 2022 48 minutes ago, 12string said: allow male/female couples to share a room No. Couple or not, no mixed-gender hotel rooms. There were no non-binary or transgender students on the debate team, but there were in the Drama Club and they travelled to festivals out-of-state. I don't remember how they worked out accommodations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Kosciuszko Posted December 6, 2022 Share #10 Posted December 6, 2022 34 minutes ago, Razors Edge said: Luckily, the magic pixie dust makes it all go away at the instant they turn 18. It goes away sooner if the parents opt to start inhaling the magic pixie dust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12string Posted December 6, 2022 Author Share #11 Posted December 6, 2022 55 minutes ago, MoseySusan said: no mixed-gender hotel rooms. But the gender isn't the problem. It's the couple that's the problem. What's safer, a gay couple or a boy and girl who have zero interest in the other gender? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealot Posted December 6, 2022 Share #12 Posted December 6, 2022 One of the most difficult things I ever remember having to do as a kid was use the locker room to change for gym and shower afterward. I hated every minute of it. I can’t imagine a situation (other than athletics) where one of my children would have gotten a massage from anyone. As adults they have. But as underage kids, no, I’d not have allowed it. When I was military, the gals gave me a key to the female dorm. I came and went as I pleased. But we were all friends. And I held the girls’ confidences; I didn’t advertise my access to the dorm among the guys. I’d not personally be comfortable sharing a room with a gay guy. But I was never comfortable sharing a room with any guy. None of this is cohesive. Too many thoughts concerning all you brought up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoseySusan Posted December 6, 2022 Share #13 Posted December 6, 2022 13 minutes ago, 12string said: What's safer, a gay couple or a boy and girl who have zero interest in the other gender? It’s a more nuanced conversation than we can probably manage here. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingstar Posted December 7, 2022 Share #14 Posted December 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Zealot said: One of the most difficult things I ever remember having to do as a kid was use the locker room to change for gym and shower afterward. I hated every minute of it. I can’t imagine a situation (other than athletics) where one of my children would have gotten a massage from anyone. As adults they have. But as underage kids, no, I’d not have allowed it. When I was military, the gals gave me a key to the female dorm. I came and went as I pleased. But we were all friends. And I held the girls’ confidences; I didn’t advertise my access to the dorm among the guys. I’d not personally be comfortable sharing a room with a gay guy. But I was never comfortable sharing a room with any guy. None of this is cohesive. Too many thoughts concerning all you brought up. I would agree, not allowing massages for underage kid. Sorry for whatever bugged you Zealot as a kid ...with ghosts of whatever haunting. Because I shared a bedroom with a sister at different times in life, I never had problems sharing sleeping accommodations with other women. As for gay, it might help if I knew the person in advance and if there were other women sleeping in same rm too... but most likely, wouldn't worry. I was never the sort of person in a change room, strutting around totally naked / talking about a ton of stuff. Some women do that, but not I. Me: take shower, get dressed and out the door. I can do my yaaaking elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickinMD ★ Posted December 7, 2022 Share #15 Posted December 7, 2022 4 hours ago, 12string said: I was buying massage gift cards, and saw the note that girls under 18 can only be massaged by a female. What about boys under 18? I mean, pretty sure I know their preference on this, but.... And what if the girl or masseuse (or both) are gay? Which then goes to, with all of this gender identity an bathroom hubbub - would you care more if your bathroom or locker room was inhabited by someone of the opposite sex, or someone of the same sex but gay? It's all so confusing. I, however, do not care one bit whichever. Americans are way to hung up about nudity and such anyway We've become a very petty society and one where people will sue at the drop of a hat if they think they can even if it's logically ridiculous. So you get all kinds of extra precautions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted December 7, 2022 Share #16 Posted December 7, 2022 2 hours ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said: It goes away sooner if the parents opt to start in home schooling. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealot Posted December 7, 2022 Share #17 Posted December 7, 2022 1 hour ago, shootingstar said: Sorry for whatever bugged you Zealot as a kid ...with ghosts of whatever haunting. It’s complicated. I’ve explained it a bit here before. No apologies are necessary. We are what we are. And we make choices to become who we become. But thank you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet Zacharia Posted December 7, 2022 Share #18 Posted December 7, 2022 3 hours ago, 12string said: But the gender isn't the problem. It's the couple that's the problem. What's safer, a gay couple or a boy and girl who have zero interest in the other gender? I’d not let opposite (birth) gender kids room together, regardless of their sexual orientation or gender identity. I’d not let romantically linked couples room together, be they heterosexual or gay. I’d let same gender individuals room together, regardless of their sexual orientation (as long as they aren’t dating). I’d let transgender kids of the same transition room together (M-F with M-F or F-M and F-M). I would not have transgender kids room with cis kids. After age 18, people can pick their rooms however they feel comfortable. Nothing scientific about this, just my gut. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealot Posted December 7, 2022 Share #19 Posted December 7, 2022 2 hours ago, shootingstar said: I was never the sort of person in a change room, strutting around totally naked / talking about a ton of stuff. Some women do that, but not I. Me: take shower, get dressed and out the door. I can do my yaaaking elsewhere. Me as well! Get in, get out. 😊 I recall once when a couple jocks decided they wanted to make fun of me and instigated a confrontation. I think it was 9th grade. I didn’t back down. And I bested the guy who came at me. It elevated my ‘status’ a bit and folks started leaving me alone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bikeguy Posted December 7, 2022 Share #20 Posted December 7, 2022 3 minutes ago, Prophet Zacharia said: I’d not let opposite (birth) gender kids room together, regardless of their sexual orientation or gender identity. I’d not let romantically linked couples room together, be they heterosexual or gay. I’d let same gender individuals room together, regardless of their sexual orientation (as long as they aren’t dating). I’d let transgender kids of the same transition room together (M-F with M-F or F-M and F-M). I would not have transgender kids room with cis kids. Nothing scientific about this, just my gut. Or how about everyone gets their own room? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Further Posted December 7, 2022 Share #21 Posted December 7, 2022 The gay couples don't seem to get pregnant as often Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingstar Posted December 7, 2022 Share #22 Posted December 7, 2022 43 minutes ago, Zealot said: It’s complicated. I’ve explained it a bit here before. No apologies are necessary. We are what we are. And we make choices to become who we become. But thank you. Thx for the link. I read the whole thread, Zealot. I wasn't aware of it. Sometimes if we can help others know how we want them to see, address us...and not deny our deepest, longest life-held feelings....and identity. When I described just a few wks. ago that in my deep dreams, people are racially and visually defined in my dreams. How else could I identify a parent, a sibling in my dreams?? It isn't just sensations/feelings in a dream, it's highly visual and racially defined for me..just as it is in real life. While true, human emotions are universal, who we might naturally associate/ wish or fear in dreams, can be distinctly and visually defined for me, in a dream...unless it's a scary animal/monster. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dottleshead ★ Posted December 7, 2022 Share #23 Posted December 7, 2022 7 hours ago, jsharr said: What are you wearing? I lol on this. I know, I know. I’m a cheap laugh but I’m good economy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealot Posted December 7, 2022 Share #24 Posted December 7, 2022 23 minutes ago, shootingstar said: Thx for the link. I read the whole thread, Zealot. I wasn't aware of it. Sometimes if we can help others know how we want them to see, address us...and not deny our deepest, longest life-held feelings....and identity. When I described just a few wks. ago that in my deep dreams, people are racially and visually defined in my dreams. How else could I identify a parent, a sibling in my dreams?? It isn't just sensations/feelings in a dream, it's highly visual and racially defined for me..just as it is in real life. While true, human emotions are universal, who we might naturally associate/ wish or fear in dreams, can be distinctly and visually defined for me, in a dream...unless it's a scary animal/monster. Yes, I did understand what you were expressing in the post about your dreams. I hope now my response to you in that post makes a little more sense. I didn’t realize you weren’t aware. My dreams of such things are very real and very taxing. Peace, this night. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randomguy Posted December 7, 2022 Share #25 Posted December 7, 2022 7 hours ago, 12string said: I was buying massage gift cards, and saw the note that girls under 18 can only be massaged by a female. What about boys under 18? I mean, pretty sure I know their preference on this, but.... And what if the girl or masseuse (or both) are gay? Which then goes to, with all of is gender identity an bathroom hubbub - would you care more if your bathroom or locker room was inhabited by someone of the opposite sex, or someone of the same sex but gay? It's all so confusing. I, however, do not care one bit whichever. Americans are way to hung up about nudity and such anyway Is scissoring an approved therapy with massage therapists? I would like to hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet Zacharia Posted December 7, 2022 Share #26 Posted December 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Bikeguy said: Or how about everyone gets their own room? I assumed budgets didn’t allow this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dottleshead ★ Posted December 7, 2022 Share #27 Posted December 7, 2022 8 hours ago, MoseySusan said: We’re probably ok with butt cheeks, Maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealot Posted December 7, 2022 Share #28 Posted December 7, 2022 7 hours ago, Zealot said: Yes, I did understand what you were expressing in the post about your dreams. I hope now my response to you in that post makes a little more sense. I didn’t realize you weren’t aware. My dreams of such things are very real and very taxing. Peace, this night. @shootingstar,I wrote this over 18 years ago: “Broken” In dreams and things unknown to those who do not view within lie dormant thoughts and ponderings for times and places when one seeks to quell the self who dies and calls to mind a song of deeply yearning, longing hearts for days when all was strong Imprinted in the circuitry of memories and dreams Are visions of a way unknown yet familiar, and it seems That if we strive to touch the hem of that we know must be We stumble o’er the fruit of that forbidden, gilded tree that brought us to this place in time where strife and pain abound and angels with their broken wings fall silent to the ground... - spring 2004 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted December 7, 2022 Share #29 Posted December 7, 2022 9 hours ago, Randomguy said: Is scissoring an approved therapy with massage therapists? I would like to hope so. Only with chicks that have the magic pixie dust sprinkled on them. You don't want to mess with the non-pixie dusted chicks. 10 hours ago, Prophet Zacharia said: After age 18, people can pick their rooms however they feel comfortable. Exactly. It's a beautiful time of life - going from sheltered and naive to awake and wise. Thank god for the pixie dust! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted December 7, 2022 Share #30 Posted December 7, 2022 12 hours ago, shootingstar said: I was never the sort of person in a change room, strutting around totally naked / talking about a ton of stuff. Some women do that, but not I. Me: take shower, get dressed and out the door. I can do my yaaaking elsewhere. This was always a "strange" situation. I remember going to our gym (the Y nearby) where towels are plentiful, and always wondering about the dudes strutting around totally naked but with a towel over their shoulder. I just didn't get it. I would (and still do) wrap a towel around my waist to and from the shower out of simple modesty (maybe?). But, I've also had many occasions of being naked around strangers for whatever reason - from spas where you spend time in saunas or soaking tubs naked with other folks to the showers where there were no partitions between the individual showers (and relatively open to random males and females wandering past). I got to the point where I really didn't care too much who sees me naked. It's really a "societal" thing, not a "human" thing to get all wrapped up in one's skin and be prudish (or exhibitionist). Likewise, assuming my gym or other experiences are with normal folks, I still never felt like the straight, gay, or bi folks were checking me out and trying to (inappropriately) get in my pants. Maybe if I was at a club - like the swinging 70s or Spring Break - where it was all about hooking up, that would be the case, but in normal situations, I can pretty much say straight, gay, and bi folks pretty much all act like normal humans to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randomguy Posted December 7, 2022 Share #31 Posted December 7, 2022 34 minutes ago, Razors Edge said: I remember going to our gym (the Y nearby) where towels are plentiful, and always wondering about the dudes strutting around totally naked but with a towel over their shoulder. I just didn't get it. I would (and still do) wrap a towel around my waist to and from the shower out of simple modesty (maybe?). If a guy is doing that, then that guy is either gay or curious and advertising for gay sex, but definitely wants someone to look directly at them for very strange attention-whorism reasons. In other words, they are being inappropriate as fuck regardless of the reasons. In a locker room, you cover up. The end. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted December 7, 2022 Share #32 Posted December 7, 2022 11 minutes ago, Randomguy said: In a locker room, you cover up. The end. Hey, prude, some folks like showing their twigs and berries! Don't get your panties in a twist! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoseySusan Posted December 7, 2022 Share #33 Posted December 7, 2022 45 minutes ago, Randomguy said: In a locker room, you cover up. The end. Not the Russian bath ones. Nudity is required and everyone is normal about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randomguy Posted December 7, 2022 Share #34 Posted December 7, 2022 6 minutes ago, MoseySusan said: Not the Russian bath ones. Nudity is required and everyone is normal about it. Ok, but in a normal gym locker room, it is definitely abnormal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted December 7, 2022 Share #35 Posted December 7, 2022 12 minutes ago, Randomguy said: Ok, but in a normal gym locker room, it is definitely abnormal. GET OUT OF YOUR BUBBLE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randomguy Posted December 7, 2022 Share #36 Posted December 7, 2022 7 minutes ago, Razors Edge said: GET OUT OF YOUR BUBBLE! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
az_cyclist Posted December 7, 2022 Share #37 Posted December 7, 2022 12 hours ago, Dottles said: I lol on this. I know, I know. I’m a cheap laugh but I’m good economy. and nobody said khakis.... I guess Jake from St Farm is not on this thread 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12string Posted December 7, 2022 Author Share #38 Posted December 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Randomguy said: Ok, but in a normal gym locker room, it is definitely abnormal. Maybe depends on where. Strutting around naked in the spas, hanging around with the wife, friends, strangers - all is just totally normal, no one gives it a second thought. A the gym, even though I really don't care, I wear a towel walking around because at the current time and place, that's what's totally normal. People in this country do need to lighten up a bit, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12string Posted December 7, 2022 Author Share #39 Posted December 7, 2022 Really interesting conversation, and we all managed to keep a potential P&R topic clean! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randomguy Posted December 7, 2022 Share #40 Posted December 7, 2022 19 minutes ago, 12string said: Maybe depends on where. Strutting around naked in the spas, hanging around with the wife, friends, strangers - all is just totally normal, no one gives it a second thought. A the gym, even though I really don't care, I wear a towel walking around because at the current time and place, that's what's totally normal. People in this country do need to lighten up a bit, though. You just keep your dong away from me at the gym, you pervert! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted December 7, 2022 Share #41 Posted December 7, 2022 53 minutes ago, Randomguy said: You just keep your dong away from me at the gym, you pervert! Why? Do dongs frighten you? That is WEIRD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randomguy Posted December 7, 2022 Share #42 Posted December 7, 2022 Just now, Razors Edge said: Why? Do dongs frighten you? That is WEIRD! You won't talk me into looking at your dong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted December 7, 2022 Share #43 Posted December 7, 2022 Just now, Randomguy said: You won't talk me into looking at your dong. For me, maybe not Gary Coleman, but at least Verne Troyer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealot Posted December 7, 2022 Share #44 Posted December 7, 2022 1 hour ago, 12string said: Maybe depends on where. People in this country do need to lighten up a bit, though. Not really, IMO. Sometimes, I’m pretty certain we’ve lightened up too much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikeman564™ Posted December 7, 2022 Share #45 Posted December 7, 2022 29 minutes ago, Randomguy said: You won't talk me into looking at your dong. wanna hit the sauna? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12string Posted December 7, 2022 Author Share #46 Posted December 7, 2022 51 minutes ago, Zealot said: Not really, IMO. Sometimes, I’m pretty certain we’ve lightened up too much. I think you may have misunderstood what we need to lighten up about. Awareness of people's differences needs to raise considerably. Fearing those differences, worrying about how they make us feel and how we react to them needs to lighten up. We wouldn't be so uptight about transgender if we didn't feel the need to sexualize the human body, 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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